MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

This is what id do if I was you.

Hunt out a average mileage bug sti. Nice ones can be had for little over 4 grand if you take your time and broaden your search. And with a few minor touches even a bug can look really nice.
Throw on a full de-cat system, front mount cooler, injectors, fuel pump, clutch, induction kit, md321h billet.... and a mapping session.

Exhaust - £250 second hand
Front mount - £200 second hand
Injectors - £200 second hand or circa £400 new
Fuel pump - £60
Induction kit - £100
Clutch - £??
Md321h billet - £1600
Mapping - £300


Job done.

logic1980

so what kind of gains on average do you see on an STI for each of those mods.

Not a great fan of the Bug - think the blob is my favourite -
guess the STI is starting to sound a better option for costing.

anyone know the gains the 2.1 stroker kit on its own puts on the WRX.
Guess I was origianlly i could get the WRX with bottom end issues for about £1500 and with the stroker fixing that issue and become drivable for another £2k making the WRX only owe me £3500 with a good base to plan future mods -

think it must we a common enough mod to WRX' or they wouldnt make the kit?

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

You wouldn't get a 2.1 built for 2 grand though chap unless your building it yourself. You'll need 2 grands worth of parts at least.

logic1980

ok £2500 to £3000 then for the engine - seen various companies on here offering for that kind of price range.

this was going to be the first stage which id run for a year while saving for the next steps.

Of course again I must state im researching the whole project which is why im on here - im sure i may have the wrong idea currently which is why im hoping for advise not criticism.

If there is a better way then tell me the options gains and costs involved and if im wrong tell me the price you think i should be looking at please rather than simply telling me im wrong at every turn - dont mean that funny but like i said before im a noob not a *** - lol

logic1980

Maybe I should re-start the thread with Blob STI vs WRX for 450 BHP - look out for it

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Just a question.. have you ever driven a 350bhp scooby?

What's the most powerful car you have driven. 350bhp is more than enough for most people. As has already been mentioned, 450bhp from a scooby is not cheap to achieve.
If it was, everyone would be running around with a 450 Impreza.

I never felt that I needed more power from my 320bhp scooby. May be for the track, but if it is a road car, what's the point?

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

What is your budget? Kind of important!

logic1980

not driven an impreza over the 300 BHP mark but guess the fastest car driven was a 2007 997 GT3 which is about 400BHP - I do see your point as that was crazy fast.

like i keep saying though this is the conception stages of the project and I may get abit carried away at first but you have to set the bar high at the start and then come down to earth.

guess the budget is about £7k over say 3 years.

so how much easier is it to squeeze 350BHP out of the WRX and what is the difference in the performance 0-60 at this compared to 450BHP

Thanks

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

You can run 350 hp on the standard WRX internals, and the gearbox will probably be fine too (if it isn't, replace it with another 200 quid box, or a 6 speeder when it breaks).

To get close to 350, you'd need a new turbo, injectors (sti pinks are fine), fuelpump, exhaust (PPP sports cat and a 2.5" will work well for this power level), a different intercooler (either STI TMIC or e.g. Japspeed FMIC) and either a panel filter (if staying with STI TMIC), or an induction kit (if going for FMIC).

Turbo-wise, you could look at something like a TD05-18g, which should make 350hp easily, or if you're happy with a couple of horses less you could look at e.g. the VF34 - 35 turbos, or even a front entry converted TD05-16g (off a classic subaru, though they're getting a bit long in the tooth now).

logic1980

thanks Henrik - thats the sort of thing i wanted to hear ( solutions )

so how much would say going down the FMIC route would this little lot cost me?

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

TD05 18G - £500
Front Mount - £250
Injectors - £400
Fuel Pump - £150
Exhaust - £400 - £800 (dependends how far you go)
Engine Map - £300 - £700 (£2000 plus if you go for a simtek ecu)
Roger Clark Oil Pump - £150

To add to the above, I would budget for :
A new clutch and flywheel - £600
New suspension - £400 - £1000
New bushes - ???
Anti lift Kit and fatter anti roll bars - £300+


So, you are looking at £4k easy and thats without labour or an engine build.
If it does go bang, then you are looking at £1500 mimimum, £3000+ for an engine build that is a lot stronger than standard.

So your budget of £7k sounds about right, but that doesn't include the cost of the car!
Then you might find out that you start to eat gearboxes. An STI 6 speed will be around £1500 with matching diff.

Oh, and we haven't even mentioned brakes yet. And all this is to get 350bhp out of a wrx.

See where I am going? Honestly, the best thing you can do if try and standard STI first. See how it feels for you. If you need more power, you know it will cost a lot of cash.

I am not saying it can't be done cheaper, but performance cars and 'cheap' in the same sentence, often leads to a 'head in your hands' moment.

logic1980

The more I hear the more I think my original idea of a WRX with big end gone so I can get the car on the cheap seems daft -

guess i simply need to cough up the cash for a blob type uk and be done with it - then mod when and if it needs it. cheaper in the long run

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Spot on. Can I ask how old you are? Insurance can be an issue, especially on modified examples.

logic1980

im 33 so insurance aint an issue (NOW) but i did have 11 points a while back which stopped me doing this sooner and they only came off 18 months ago

Also i guess i was thinking mess with the internals and who would know - lolhaha

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

Some of your prices are way out.

TD05 18G - £500 - ok, this is realistic
Front Mount - £250 - again, realistic
Injectors - £400 - really? 100 quid for STI pinks
Fuel Pump - £150 - more like 75 for a genuine walbro
Exhaust - £400 - £800 (dependends how far you go) - err..??? for 350hp he will be fine with even a PPP exhaust, and I bet he can get all the parts for 250 with spare change. No need to change the centre section either.
Engine Map - £300 - £700 (£2000 plus if you go for a simtek ecu) - why would he go for a simtek on a 350hp new age FGS? Even an unlicensed ecutek map is only 550, and the new age ECU is perfectly capable at this level.
Roger Clark Oil Pump - £150 - again, why? The standard one is perfectly fine.

To add to the above, I would budget for :
A new clutch and flywheel - £600. The standard clutch is fine at this level. Even so, if you're looking at getting a fresh clutch for a leggy engine, you'll need to do the same for an STI.

As for the rest, you'd need to change these on an STI as well.
New suspension - £400 - £1000.
New bushes - ???
Anti lift Kit and fatter anti roll bars - £300+



So, I make that around 1500 for an OS remap, or 1800 for an ecutek.

addi monster

iTrader: (6)

Sti tmic £150
Pinks £100
Exhaust (sh) inc up £200
Good td05 16g £140
Walbro £65
Gaskets ect £60
Os re map £350
All this should make around 340bhp plus. Mine did 352bhp so you see you do not need to spend vast amounts.
Note all prices are exempt from fitting but all these jobs are not hard at all and you could do them yourself apart from the mapping

logic1980

I think from the sounds of it there are a number of ways to achieve the 350 figure with a non-surprising sliding cost scale.

The more i look in to things I either go the fun engineering way which is get the non-runner blob WRX and replace lots of the bits over time to get the figure but make it a labour of love and admit to myself its going to cost a fair bit

Or I get a running blob STI - but wait as initial funds cant quite stretch that far now - then do a few cheaper mods to get the figure.

would the suspension need changing on the STI then? the brakes should be fine though right? how much cost and difficulty would it be to fit STI brakes on a WRX.

the thing with the STI i like is the CDB as standard and the 6 speed box!

addi monster

iTrader: (6)

CDB's are not standard in all models.

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

Newage STI had SCD block.
Dont get too hung up on blocks, at the figures your talking it makes no difference what block it has.

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

True, you should get whatever you want I was just pointing out that the costs gearhead posted were way OTT.

The suspension on the STI is prone to knocking (rear shocks) at low miles, which isn't terminal apparently, but very annoying. A lot of STI (and WRX to be fair) owners change to BC series coil overs, as they come in at almost the same price as standard replacement units, and you can then chose spring and damping ratios to suit your driving style.

The brakes on the STI are better as standard, no question about it. Having said that, I used to run a 350hp WRX on the standard brakes and had zero issues on the road with that. The brakes, provided they are in good condition, are still strong enough to activate the ABS at high speeds, though they probably would not fare too well on track.

There are several options you can take with the WRX brakes. You can either upgrade the pads + brakes to various options, from about 150 quid all in, or you can get a set of STI brakes for about 450-500 (at a guess, I'm not sure), or the godspeed 335mm kit at 550, or something like the k-sport 8 pot caliper 330mm kit at about 800?

I've ran the standard brakes, uprated discs + pads, godspeed kit and k-sport kit. On the road, there is *no* difference in performance between the uprated discs + pads and "higher" options. I'm currently running uprated discs + pads in my 318hp bugeye wagon, and other than squeeling and some pad knocking when reversing (both attributable to the pad choice), I have no complaints. I haven't had the bug eye on track, but I suspect it'd be "OK" for a standardish road car.

On my track car (blob WRX) I've ran the godspeed kit and the k-sports. The k-sports are a bit better IMO (in fact, with some bluestuff NDX pads they are fantastic), specifically the caliper is a lot lighter which means less unsprung weight, which I can tell over bumps and kerbs. I have had zero brake fade with both options on track.


The STI doesn't have a closed deck block (this was only available on select early imprezas), but it's rather semi closed deck. However, in practice this doesn't make much difference, as the ODB itself is fine up to about 500hp (with different internals etc etc)


I think the main thing here is, don't save up and spend every single penny on an STI and expect to spend no further money on it, as it will still cost the same to do a clutch change, suspension refresh etc on an STI as a WRX. The STI is "better/stronger" from a performance point of view, but the increased performance comes at a cost (and quite a bit of additional weight).

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

Oh and btw, to get 350hp from an STI, you will most likely need to change the turbo anyway, as few make 350 on the STI turbo

Also, you'd need to change the exhaust and air filter, so the 350 on an STI will cost you around slightly above a grand anyway including mapping (assuming OS map and a 500 quid turbo). If you're happy with slightly less, then you will get away with exhaust, filter and remap at about 5-600.

logic1980

Oh I stand corrected on the block - ( knew i knew nothing - lol )

thanks again for info Henrik - good to know real car facts tried and tested.

My only issue with getting the STI is it seems like too many plug and play bits and not much involvement needed from me to get 350bhp -

so if the car is a STI i will probably need
suspension
clutch
turbo
remapp
exhaust
induction kit
FMIC (just cuz i like that idea with a better cooling air flow)

and with the WRX
all the above plus
pink injectors - £400
new brakes? -£500
6 speed box? buy when needed but guess £1500

and what else?

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

Pink injectors are only 100.

Fuelpump needed for both.

WRX needs an up-pipe decat as well (standard on STI). Seems to go for 30'ish quid. Other than that, you're there.

With regards to clutch, you'd probably be OK with both cars, so not strictly needed for remap, but change / uprate if it goes.

logic1980

Im still thinking the extra needed on the WRX isnt going to be that expensive when you take the initial costs of the cars as the STI fetch about £2000 more from what iv seen.

but I do agree starting with the STI is probably the right move.

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

If your end goal is circa 350bhp then yes, a wrx will be prove to be cheaper.
However, if you think your target may increase to 400 and above then financially a starting point of an STI will end up cheaper in the long run.

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

Definitely agree on the 400hp up builds

logic1980

thanks Matt - guess most people start at a figure and find it hard to stop -

again all good advice and different ideas to think of -

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

The problem is that people get hooked on power figures, I've been guilty myself. You just want that bit more, and then a bit more and then...... you get the idea. It becomes an obsession that costs a bloody fortune.
From my own experience I can tell you that a classic at circa 420hp is no more fun than one at 320. The amount of money it costs to gain that 100hp is ridiculous.

But, I will be purchasing another classic impreza shortly. Will I get silly and push for more power than the last one knowing what I know now.

Ofcourse I bloody will !!!!!!!

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

really, well i dont agree at all.
heres my rolling road print out for my sti when it was running standard turbo and injectors and a 3 inch decat.

mapped by dynamix on rcms rolling road for the grand total of £350