mrmadcap

Yes I remember those days, but fast forward to the present and you have talk within the Police Service of strikes and work to rule because of their grievances due to erosion of conditions, pay and pensions.

Quite ironic really because the miners were fighting for their jobs and way of life, not just a pension.

Will the public have any sympathy for the Police?, remember the Police had little sympathy for the miners and were Thatcher’s main weapon used to crush the miners.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Yes, very Ironic, when today, you look at how Scargil lives and reaps off the NUC's gravytrain, in stark contrast to the miners he supposedly fought for.

I do feel for those living in those mining towns because they were left with nothing, much like where I live now is left with nothing due to manufacturing and industry shutting down or migrating to China. It seems those in power on either side always suffer no personal impact, yet those on the lower rungs fall in to deprivation.

Because of that I have a high resentment of most union leaders, because those in charge never suffer the ramifications of their actions, yet pressure their followers to make personal sacrifice.

mrmadcap

Yes it's nice to know that AndyBaker's upbringing was financed on the misery of others

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I thought the day would never come, but I agree with you

mrmadcap

About five years ago the wife worked for a US travel provider in a call centre selling holidays to Disneyland etc. Before taking payment she had to ask the client whether they had a criminal record.

If the answer was yes they would not qualify for the Visa Waiver Scheme and would therefore need to apply to the US Consulate in London for a US Visa or entry into the US would be refused.

One chap booking a holiday on behalf of the family when asked the question paused for a couple of seconds and answered 'yes'.

Turned out that he was a miner back in the day during the strike, and because they were not earning any wages they were actually starving. Remember, no benefits from the social were available so many relied on charity. So he went out with his brother with a couple of air rifles to shoot rabbits for Sunday lunch. They were apprehended by the Police and accused of having offensive weapons etc., and were prosecuted.

That's why the thought of unskilled immigrants coming into the UK and going straight onto the benefit system is boiling my ****.

warrenm2

Green taxes and North Sea gas surplus. Next...

warrenm2

This is an argument to increase competition and I agree with you. Electricity and gas you can buy off any supplier, a working system should be devised for water and waste

No they were originally private companies - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_UK_electricity_supply_industry for example

Ugghh what are you, 16? "Fat cats"?!!! You also give no evidence why it has been bad for consumers. Says you, but thats not really a strong argument is it? Much wider choice of suppliers, different tariffs to suit different needs, industry regulator. What's your problem? If its the level of bills, then again I refer you to green taxation. Black outs? Nope (at least not yet, but again I say green regulations)

warrenm2

An eloquent article on the current situation

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ene...gy-policy.html

Chip

We already have some LED street lights here in Cardiff and they seem very good.

As for your second point, I agree, it's a great idea.

hodgy0_2

written by a contrarian nutcase who also believes in “intelligent” design, dismisses the health risks of asbestos and denies any link between passive smoking and cancer

I am sure there are valid questions around our energy policy, but if Christopher Booker is the answer, someone has asked a fvcking stupid question

cster

Just because someone doesn't hold the same opinions as you - does make them a nutcase?
You seem to struggle with this a little - as an academic (?) and a father, I'd have thought you would welcome discussion and challenge to your own view point.
It's not knowing the right answers that make life interesting, it's asking the right questions is what I tell my children.
Having said that - I am inclined to agree with you vis a vis Mr Brooker, although I might occasionally see what he has to say - you never know!

Luan Pra bang

If I can buy electricity off ANY supplier then I would like to purchase it from Venezuela. The idea of a free market for electricity is a myth, its a handful of companies trading under different names trying to pretend a free electricity market exists. Its the same with water, there is no free market for water, privatization just means I have to pay more to satisfy corporate greed. Which private company paid for the sewage and water system as a matter of interest ?



[/quote]No they were originally private companies - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_UK_electricity_supply_industry for example[/quote]

That link shows nothing useful, are you claiming that the national grid was proposed and financed buy a private company ? If you think that you are mental.






It is bad for consumers because the prices have risen and tariffs have become much more complicated, this helps to baffle consumers and stop them getting the most efficient Tariff. Lets not bull**** here you know that the prices went up long before green legislation had a significant effect. Nationalized Utilities and transport is a joke, if the private sector is so efficient and good why are train companies still being subsidized despite huge hikes in rail fares ?

Chip

Luan,

So what do you think the benefits would be if these industries were re-nationalised? Do you have any knowledge or experience of these industries before they were privstised, just how inefficient and wasteful they were? I very much doubt it.

You seem to have a problem with share ownership in companies, well did you know that not all have made money for their shareholders, without whom this country would be in a much worse place than it is now.

I bet you blame everything on the city bankers as well.

AndyBaker

[QUOTE=mrmadcap;11034263]Yes it's nice to know that AndyBaker's upbringing was financed on the misery of others[/

I would be really grateful if you could expand on that

dpb

S'allright. , he's just being a **** - they did what Maggie told em to do


Unless he was at the battle of the beanfield!

Leslie

Use the coal this country is sitting on.

There is no significant GBW anyway-it was all a big con!

Les

mrmadcap

[quote=AndyBaker;11035070]There's no need to expand, anyone around in the 80's remembers the Police being used by the establishment to crush the miners strike and it's been written into the history books and debated by many in the past and present.

But at least your old man was earning plenty of cosher in overtime, which is what you were bragging about

How the tables have turned, now it's Police pay and conditions that are being eroded by the current goverment, now that is Karma

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Easier said than done, unfortunately Les.

Once you close a mine, it becomes extremely uneconomic to re-open it. I'm sure I've read somewhere that it would need the worth of the coal to be FIVE TIMES what it was in order to make it economically viable to reopen it, and even then, some will NEVER reopen as it's just too dangerous with present extraction techniques

We HAD coal to last 300 years.. much of it wasted by Maggie for ideology

hodgy0_2

no, i judge each occasion on it's merits, which is also how I teach my children.

and for the record I have had disagreements with George "moonbat" Monbiot

Thanks

AndyBaker

[QUOTE=mrmadcap;11035118]What a w4nker, I wasn't bragging just stating fact.. Scargill was the worlds prize tosser and there were many that suffered from his actions.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

And what of the Union leader's Karma? Have you seen how these leaders of the 70/80's now live, like Scargils £60K pension, which is in contrast to the people they campainged for?

When you ply deeper into the leaders of various unions past and present including the idaelistic communist/left wing militants in the NUM and now look at how they live(d) now, its nothing short of hypocrisy.

An insight into Lord Gormley's reign at the NUM is a very interesting one. But even he as such a morally integral person (unlike Scargil which he resented), he didn't die a pauper (although he was born one), making fair use of the Union's mansions and being driven round in Jaguars, all paid for by the union members, which not to forget were operated on closed-shop principals. (something Tebbit quite rightly outlawed).

AndyBaker

That

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

done iirc because coal was £10 a tonne cheeper from romania or somewhere else, i often wonder if it is still cheeper, and how many tonnes we need to import at £10 a tonne cheeper to offset alL the miners maggie put on the dole, CLASSIC CASE OF BEND OVER TO PICK UP 5PENCE AND PUT YOUR *** THROUGH A 50QUID WINDOW , WELL DONE MAGGIE

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

done iirc because coal was £10 a tonne cheeper from romania or somewhere else, i often wonder if it is still cheeper, and how many tonnes we need to import at £10 a tonne cheeper to offset alL the miners maggie put on the dole, CLASSIC CASE OF BEND OVER TO PICK UP 5PENCE AND PUT YOUR *** THROUGH A 50QUID WINDOW , WELL DONE MAGGIE

Chip

[QUOTE=AndyBaker;11035254]

Chip

In their last full year of operation before the (illegal) pit strike, British Coal made a loss of £485million. That figure excludes the subsidy received by British Coal from the electricity generating companies who were being forced to buy British coal at an above market price simply to keep unprofitable mines open. If this "subsidy" is taken into account, British Coal was losing £727 million per year. That is equal to £1.75 BILLION POUND in todays prices. How on earth you judge this to be "profitable" is beyond me.

The National Coal Board closed down the pits because

(a) they were losing money and better quality coal could be bought from overseas at a cheaper price

(b) The National Union of Mineworkers had, for too long, held the county to ransom by threatening strikes every time they did not get their way.
Arthur Scargill is responsible for the closure of England's coal mines.

He demanded ever higher wages from an industry that was losing money hand-over-fist for years. Add to this the number of days lost to strikes called by Scargill and it was no wonder that the English coal industry was on its knees.

Scargill was bleeding this country dry - it took the courage of Margaret Thatcher to stand up to this communist bully.
And most of the South Wales pits closed during the 60’s. They were shut down by Labour's minister for energy - TONY BENN!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Chip, why do people like you cling to this notion that a nationalised industry has to be inefficient and wasteful. Surely you being a clever chap can see that doesn't have to be the case. These industries were poorly run I agree, but that is not intrinsically linked to the fact they were state owned.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Historically, the problem with the UK was it Nationalised too much for too long with improper regulation. Don't quote me on this, but I think the UK had the largest number of nationalised industries in the western world.

Thats not to say mixed economies with heavy nationalisation don't work, indeed they do. But its more notable sucesss is in countries with stricter governments. Our recent governments are too weak and lack the conviction to put the strict controls needed to force a workable mixed economy.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Surely, one of the major drawbacks with nationalised industry is the total plonker placed in charge by central government, and who will, undoubtedly, have zero qualifications to run said company?

The second biggest drawback is the amount of interference that comes from said central government.....don't forget that ministers have no qualifications to run anything, in most cases, just look at the likes of Prescott and Ainsworth, not to mention Postman Pat the Home secretary.....

yet these people can, and do, interfere for ideological reasons, in the running of nationalised companies

Chip

Chris, I speak from experience of working for both state owned and private industry in the energy sector. Maybe things have or would change if it was tried now but if you look at organisations still run by the state ie: NHS, Councils,Government, education etc there is still much work to be done to make them efficient.