RIP - Baroness Thatcher
08 April 2013, 04:08 PM
#63
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Taxation in its purest from is very different though.
Why should the amount you pay be based on the size of your house? Why should a single pensioner pay more than a family of 5? The old rates system was flawed and Thatcher's basic concept was good.
The "poll tax" was means tested, by the way. But don't let the facts get in the way of your good old fasioned socialist rant
Why should the amount you pay be based on the size of your house? Why should a single pensioner pay more than a family of 5? The old rates system was flawed and Thatcher's basic concept was good.
The "poll tax" was means tested, by the way. But don't let the facts get in the way of your good old fasioned socialist rant
08 April 2013, 04:17 PM
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A tax has to be practical, as well as good in theory. And the poll tax wasn't. People just didn't pay it. I remember i never. Millions went uncollected. Not economically viable to collect such small amounts.
08 April 2013, 04:19 PM
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08 April 2013, 04:41 PM
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Taxation in its purest from is very different though.
Why should the amount you pay be based on the size of your house? Why should a single pensioner pay more than a family of 5? The old rates system was flawed and Thatcher's basic concept was good.
The "poll tax" was means tested, by the way. But don't let the facts get in the way of your good old fasioned socialist rant
Why should the amount you pay be based on the size of your house? Why should a single pensioner pay more than a family of 5? The old rates system was flawed and Thatcher's basic concept was good.
The "poll tax" was means tested, by the way. But don't let the facts get in the way of your good old fasioned socialist rant
Your emotive "pensioner" example is nonsencial. If person "a" is able to contribute more than person "b", then that should dictate the rate. Ability to pay is what matters, not whether they are a pensioner or not.
Anyway all of this was recognised and replaced with the council tax, which whilst not being ideal, was a fairer way to handle things. So you are arguing for a system that has been proven not to work. Most odd.
In any event Poll tax wasn't the worst things she did, when you consider Privatisation, section 28, support of apartheid, Right to buy without provisioning for replacement housing ( a problem with you can trace right the way through to the current financial crisis, and subsequent governments share the blame), the descruction of entire communities and so on.
She did a great job with the Falklands though.
08 April 2013, 04:53 PM
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The problem was allowing local councils and county councils to set their rates which were all differet menaing the notion of everyone paying the same was nonsense.
Then she insisted local councils collected it rather than it be centrally collected and doled out centrally as per the original plan.
This meant councils were expected to keep track of people moving in and out of their areas for even a few days .Impossible so they just started issuing court summons instead of bills.
Then she caved into the protests and gave everyone £140 back meaning people in Wandsworth were being paid by their local authority.
It was a f**king shanbles caused by a very good idea being completely eroded in execution by a lack of desire to stick with it and see it through!
Stupid in the extreme!
08 April 2013, 04:53 PM
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Maggie was the right PM at the right time.
Our country was being ravaged by unions, resulting in appalling productivity and loss of competitiveness. She corrected much of this.
I've heard alot today on the news from miners stating that she ruined their industry, this couldn't me more wrong, the mining industry was ruined by Arthur Scargill and his Marxist 'comrades'.
Thatcher is by some way our greatest post war PM, her legacy will live on for many generations
RIP
Our country was being ravaged by unions, resulting in appalling productivity and loss of competitiveness. She corrected much of this.
I've heard alot today on the news from miners stating that she ruined their industry, this couldn't me more wrong, the mining industry was ruined by Arthur Scargill and his Marxist 'comrades'.
Thatcher is by some way our greatest post war PM, her legacy will live on for many generations
RIP
Last edited by Martin2005; 08 April 2013 at 06:47 PM.
08 April 2013, 04:56 PM
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08 April 2013, 05:05 PM
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Taxation is taxation. It should be based on ability to pay. Not usage. It's as simple as that really. Many poorer families ended up paying far more than they should have done. hence the massive non-payments and eventual riots.
Your emotive "pensioner" example is nonsencial. If person "a" is able to contribute more than person "b", then that should dictate the rate. Ability to pay is what matters, not whether they are a pensioner or not.
Anyway all of this was recognised and replaced with the council tax, which whilst not being ideal, was a fairer way to handle things. So you are arguing for a system that has been proven not to work. Most odd.
In any event Poll tax wasn't the worst things she did, when you consider Privatisation, section 28, support of apartheid, Right to buy without provisioning for replacement housing ( a problem with you can trace right the way through to the current financial crisis, and subsequent governments share the blame), the descruction of entire communities and so on.
She did a great job with the Falklands though.
Your emotive "pensioner" example is nonsencial. If person "a" is able to contribute more than person "b", then that should dictate the rate. Ability to pay is what matters, not whether they are a pensioner or not.
Anyway all of this was recognised and replaced with the council tax, which whilst not being ideal, was a fairer way to handle things. So you are arguing for a system that has been proven not to work. Most odd.
In any event Poll tax wasn't the worst things she did, when you consider Privatisation, section 28, support of apartheid, Right to buy without provisioning for replacement housing ( a problem with you can trace right the way through to the current financial crisis, and subsequent governments share the blame), the descruction of entire communities and so on.
She did a great job with the Falklands though.
Taxation is not taxation Pete. the reality is most forms of taxation are usage or value based. Income tax is one of the only taxes which is based upon ability to pay. The clue is in the name.
Last edited by Devildog; 08 April 2013 at 05:06 PM.
08 April 2013, 05:07 PM
#73
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Agree entirely.
Means tested ot not that was not the problem.
The problem was allowing local councils and county councils to set their rates which were all differet menaing the notion of everyone paying the same was nonsense.
Then she insisted local councils collected it rather than it be centrally collected and doled out centrally as per the original plan.
This meant councils were expected to keep track of people moving in and out of their areas for even a few days .Impossible so they just started issuing court summons instead of bills.
Then she caved into the protests and gave everyone £140 back meaning people in Wandsworth were being paid by their local authority.
It was a f**king shanbles caused by a very good idea being completely eroded in execution by a lack of desire to stick with it and see it through!
Stupid in the extreme!
Means tested ot not that was not the problem.
The problem was allowing local councils and county councils to set their rates which were all differet menaing the notion of everyone paying the same was nonsense.
Then she insisted local councils collected it rather than it be centrally collected and doled out centrally as per the original plan.
This meant councils were expected to keep track of people moving in and out of their areas for even a few days .Impossible so they just started issuing court summons instead of bills.
Then she caved into the protests and gave everyone £140 back meaning people in Wandsworth were being paid by their local authority.
It was a f**king shanbles caused by a very good idea being completely eroded in execution by a lack of desire to stick with it and see it through!
Stupid in the extreme!
08 April 2013, 05:15 PM
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[QUOTE=Devildog;11052139]Taxation is not taxation Pete. the reality is most forms of taxation are usage or value based. QUOTE]
Really? Which taxes are based on usage, then? Consumption tax, that is, tax on value, (VAT for example) is optional, to an extent. You can chose your consumption of goods. When it comes to mandatory taxation, that is taxtion you are forced to pay reguarly should be based on ability to pay. Taxation for local authorities and services fall squarely in that bracket.
Really? Which taxes are based on usage, then? Consumption tax, that is, tax on value, (VAT for example) is optional, to an extent. You can chose your consumption of goods. When it comes to mandatory taxation, that is taxtion you are forced to pay reguarly should be based on ability to pay. Taxation for local authorities and services fall squarely in that bracket.
08 April 2013, 05:49 PM
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I've been looking at those muppets Milliband, ***** and his putrid missus and have been praying for a Maggie comeback.
Now all is lost and the country is doomed.
Now all is lost and the country is doomed.
08 April 2013, 05:58 PM
#78
Maggie was the right PM at the right time.
Our country was being ravaged by unions, resulting in appalling productivity and loss of competitiveness.
She corrected much of this. I've heard alot today on the news from miners stating that she ruined their industry, this couldn't me more wrong, the mining industry was ruined by Arthur Scargill and his Marxist 'comraades'.
Thatcher is by some way our greatest post war PM, he legacy will live on for many generations
RIP
Our country was being ravaged by unions, resulting in appalling productivity and loss of competitiveness.
She corrected much of this. I've heard alot today on the news from miners stating that she ruined their industry, this couldn't me more wrong, the mining industry was ruined by Arthur Scargill and his Marxist 'comraades'.
Thatcher is by some way our greatest post war PM, he legacy will live on for many generations
RIP
08 April 2013, 06:06 PM
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08 April 2013, 06:29 PM
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Maggie was the right PM at the right time.
Our country was being ravaged by unions, resulting in appalling productivity and loss of competitiveness.
She corrected much of this. I've heard alot today on the news from miners stating that she ruined their industry, this couldn't me more wrong, the mining industry was ruined by Arthur Scargill and his Marxist 'comraades'.
Thatcher is by some way our greatest post war PM, he legacy will live on for many generations
RIP
Our country was being ravaged by unions, resulting in appalling productivity and loss of competitiveness.
She corrected much of this. I've heard alot today on the news from miners stating that she ruined their industry, this couldn't me more wrong, the mining industry was ruined by Arthur Scargill and his Marxist 'comraades'.
Thatcher is by some way our greatest post war PM, he legacy will live on for many generations
RIP
08 April 2013, 06:33 PM
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As you say, ****.
08 April 2013, 06:40 PM
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Mixed.
Good.
Deregulating state monopolies (at one time you couldn't change your own phone)
Curbing union power
Bad
Too confrontational (which led to her downfall)
Wrongly thought we could rely on the service sector for everything
Poor energy policy (ie she thought we could reply on cheap imported gas for ever)
YTS
Thought the city was the answer to everything.
The YTS was a terrible policy. Saying we have enough skilled people, we don't need any more. Awful consequenses that we are still paying for (and trying to rectify) today.
............but a sad day for her family, nonetheless.
Good.
Deregulating state monopolies (at one time you couldn't change your own phone)
Curbing union power
Bad
Too confrontational (which led to her downfall)
Wrongly thought we could rely on the service sector for everything
Poor energy policy (ie she thought we could reply on cheap imported gas for ever)
YTS
Thought the city was the answer to everything.
The YTS was a terrible policy. Saying we have enough skilled people, we don't need any more. Awful consequenses that we are still paying for (and trying to rectify) today.
............but a sad day for her family, nonetheless.
If it wasn't for me getting a YTS placement during 1986, I probably wouldn't have the business I have now, and be able to employ others.
I didn't agree with everything she did, but as has been said, she had a whole lot more spunk about her than today's politicians.
I don't think there will ever be another party leader winning 3 consecutive general elections again.
08 April 2013, 06:42 PM
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08 April 2013, 06:45 PM
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08 April 2013, 06:47 PM
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