why have bigger brakes?
24 July 2013, 07:27 AM
#151
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'Better' (bigger?) brakes = repeatability/consistency
OEM brakes are generally fine for one or two high speed stops. BUT they overheat quickly when not given time to cool between stops. This is THE cause of them fading. 'Big' brakes overcome this by being more efficient at removing the heat generated, i.e. they remove the heat quicker enabling the brakes to be ready for the next big stop. Cars with higher powers can achieve a higher speed quicker (hence in less time between stops). Thus the 'need' for big brakes on modified cars.
OEM brakes are generally fine for one or two high speed stops. BUT they overheat quickly when not given time to cool between stops. This is THE cause of them fading. 'Big' brakes overcome this by being more efficient at removing the heat generated, i.e. they remove the heat quicker enabling the brakes to be ready for the next big stop. Cars with higher powers can achieve a higher speed quicker (hence in less time between stops). Thus the 'need' for big brakes on modified cars.
24 July 2013, 10:24 AM
#152
'Better' (bigger?) brakes = repeatability/consistency
OEM brakes are generally fine for one or two high speed stops. BUT they overheat quickly when not given time to cool between stops. This is THE cause of them fading. 'Big' brakes overcome this by being more efficient at removing the heat generated, i.e. they remove the heat quicker enabling the brakes to be ready for the next big stop. Cars with higher powers can achieve a higher speed quicker (hence in less time between stops). Thus the 'need' for big brakes on modified cars.
OEM brakes are generally fine for one or two high speed stops. BUT they overheat quickly when not given time to cool between stops. This is THE cause of them fading. 'Big' brakes overcome this by being more efficient at removing the heat generated, i.e. they remove the heat quicker enabling the brakes to be ready for the next big stop. Cars with higher powers can achieve a higher speed quicker (hence in less time between stops). Thus the 'need' for big brakes on modified cars.
24 July 2013, 02:17 PM
#155
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24 July 2013, 02:28 PM
#156
You don't need to jump straight to the expensive ££££££ Calipers Brembo's can be made to work just fine for track days with the right hardware,Performance friction disc and pads either 01 or 08 pad compound,Z rated is a good pad for fast road and the occasional track days,but the before mentioned compounds 01/08 are a tad more hard core so perfect for track days without the worry of fade,and get a decent brake fluid like Performance Friction 665 dot .4 and braided brake lines if you have not already,and your good to go,talk with Alyn of AS Performance for good service,and prices and more free advice if needed
.SJ.
.SJ.
24 July 2013, 09:20 PM
#160
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And how do we determine that?
I believe Stephen Hawking because he explains things I don't understand in a manner that I can, not because everyone else thinks he's a doyen of his particular field.
And Prof. Hawking doesn't get by simply by saying that some people's views are rubbish.
And brevity to some is suppression to others.
So, who, in your highly respected view, has been posting "rubbish" ?
I believe Stephen Hawking because he explains things I don't understand in a manner that I can, not because everyone else thinks he's a doyen of his particular field.
And Prof. Hawking doesn't get by simply by saying that some people's views are rubbish.
And brevity to some is suppression to others.
So, who, in your highly respected view, has been posting "rubbish" ?
If I have any pertinent information to convey, then I will, but "What DV ?" doesn't count.
dunx
P.S.
1. Brembos are a good set-up for a road car.
2. Upgraded Brembos are a starter track set-up
3. AP fronts are a decent track set-up.
4. Other makes are available.
And I object to you implying that I'm highly respected anywhere on this planet....
Last edited by dunx; 24 July 2013 at 09:32 PM.
24 July 2013, 09:42 PM
#161
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does anyone have experience of massive caliper and disc conversions for track day use on imprezas? something about 332mm+ brembo/tarox/ap racing? i'm running 18x8. i spent £700 on an ebc disc/pad combo and it simply wasn't up to trackday use in the slightest. orange stuff pads basically destroyed after one day (i wasn't even on track that much and the disc warped!) i dont mind spending 2 grand as long as the brakes dont die on their **** after 1 session. any suggestions people???
The second thing I learnt was to be smooth and carry speed through corners.
I boiled my Brembo/PF set-up and ended up at a chicane +15mph than expected
the car simply steered through no problem, I was astonished.Then I upgraded to 330mm AP six pots and fade was a distant memory, the initial bite on application is astonishing, and replacement rotors and pads aren't significantly more expensive than PF parts for Brembos.
HTH
dunx
P.S. The first thing I learnt was to get the car straight ( going backwards ) as you spin at 80 mph due to clipping the wet curbs....
25 July 2013, 12:08 AM
#162
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I don't think my opinion is relevant. The facts are that S'net has become a hall of fools, many spout their beliefs, others cut & paste great tracts of text, few dispense wisdom or knowledge.
If I have any pertinent information to convey, then I will, but "What DV ?" doesn't count.
dunx
P.S.
1. Brembos are a good set-up for a road car.
2. Upgraded Brembos are a starter track set-up
3. AP fronts are a decent track set-up.
4. Other makes are available.
And I object to you implying that I'm highly respected anywhere on this planet....
If I have any pertinent information to convey, then I will, but "What DV ?" doesn't count.
dunx
P.S.
1. Brembos are a good set-up for a road car.
2. Upgraded Brembos are a starter track set-up
3. AP fronts are a decent track set-up.
4. Other makes are available.
And I object to you implying that I'm highly respected anywhere on this planet....
And it's got lots of contributors, and none of us know who you regard as spouting rubbish (and with that post also who you think has to cut & paste to produce voluminous posts) and possibly, like most human beings, we will ALL take the view that you mean us personally, and therefore take it personally.
And I didn't say, nor imply, that you were respected.
I said "your highly respected view", because your view(s) and comments would always be treated with respect by me, as indeed these have.
Oh - and thanks for some words of comfort.
I've got upgraded Brembos on my car. Thank you for putting a smile on my face and a glow in my heart.
25 July 2013, 07:05 AM
#163
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so 6 pages in.. you have bigger brakes cus they look better than std 2pot
25 July 2013, 09:01 AM
#165
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Real world.
You run and have run 220bhp for a while now, you go down your garage with nice shiny bits and come back with a lighter wallet and 320bhp.
You drive steady home, avoiding speed cameras, children, large animals and speed bumps.
You pick up your mate you regularly go 'cruising' with, to go hit some twisty bits.
You turn onto the same bit of national speed limited road you have hammered it down since you signed the V5. You hammer it.
As you approach the point you usually jump on the stoppers, at say, 90mph... guess what, you look down, you're doing 120mph....
So talk me through not upgrading your brakes again?
You run and have run 220bhp for a while now, you go down your garage with nice shiny bits and come back with a lighter wallet and 320bhp.
You drive steady home, avoiding speed cameras, children, large animals and speed bumps.
You pick up your mate you regularly go 'cruising' with, to go hit some twisty bits.
You turn onto the same bit of national speed limited road you have hammered it down since you signed the V5. You hammer it.
As you approach the point you usually jump on the stoppers, at say, 90mph... guess what, you look down, you're doing 120mph....
So talk me through not upgrading your brakes again?
25 July 2013, 09:03 AM
#166
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It's unbelievable that this has run to 6 pages.
As said standard brakes are fine within their intended use/design parameters.
Bigger/upgraded brakes give more repeatability & consitency.
If bigger brakes were of no benefit you would have high end Porsches and Ferraris running around on cost efficient (cheap) basic 4 pots. But what do they know? I guess they just fit £8k worth of ceramic brakes because they 'Look Good'
As said standard brakes are fine within their intended use/design parameters.
Bigger/upgraded brakes give more repeatability & consitency.
If bigger brakes were of no benefit you would have high end Porsches and Ferraris running around on cost efficient (cheap) basic 4 pots. But what do they know? I guess they just fit £8k worth of ceramic brakes because they 'Look Good'
25 July 2013, 09:22 AM
#167
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25 July 2013, 10:46 AM
#168
It's unbelievable that this has run to 6 pages.
As said standard brakes are fine within their intended use/design parameters.
Bigger/upgraded brakes give more repeatability & consitency.
If bigger brakes were of no benefit you would have high end Porsches and Ferraris running around on cost efficient (cheap) basic 4 pots. But what do they know? I guess they just fit £8k worth of ceramic brakes because they 'Look Good'
As said standard brakes are fine within their intended use/design parameters.
Bigger/upgraded brakes give more repeatability & consitency.
If bigger brakes were of no benefit you would have high end Porsches and Ferraris running around on cost efficient (cheap) basic 4 pots. But what do they know? I guess they just fit £8k worth of ceramic brakes because they 'Look Good'
Ceramics have their place (usually on track) but on a road car I question their veracity. Very expensive for what they do. In fact one of the contributors to Evo magazine (Simon George iirc) who runs a few supecars that he hires out for track days, reverted back to steel disks on his Ferrari when the ceramics needed replacing. In his words the cost of ceramics was ludicrous and the performance of steel disks was only marginally inferior to the ceramics. So from his experience yes they fit ceramic brakes to look good (and to keep up with the other manufacturers).
25 July 2013, 11:01 AM
#169
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It's unbelievable that this has run to 6 pages.
As said standard brakes are fine within their intended use/design parameters.
Bigger/upgraded brakes give more repeatability & consitency.
If bigger brakes were of no benefit you would have high end Porsches and Ferraris running around on cost efficient (cheap) basic 4 pots. But what do they know? I guess they just fit £8k worth of ceramic brakes because they 'Look Good'
As said standard brakes are fine within their intended use/design parameters.
Bigger/upgraded brakes give more repeatability & consitency.
If bigger brakes were of no benefit you would have high end Porsches and Ferraris running around on cost efficient (cheap) basic 4 pots. But what do they know? I guess they just fit £8k worth of ceramic brakes because they 'Look Good'
25 July 2013, 12:29 PM
#170
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25 July 2013, 12:44 PM
#171
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It's a discussion, people add their opinions and experiences. The thread expands, is that a bad thing?
Ceramics have their place (usually on track) but on a road car I question their veracity. Very expensive for what they do. In fact one of the contributors to Evo magazine (Simon George iirc) who runs a few supecars that he hires out for track days, reverted back to steel disks on his Ferrari when the ceramics needed replacing. In his words the cost of ceramics was ludicrous and the performance of steel disks was only marginally inferior to the ceramics. So from his experience yes they fit ceramic brakes to look good (and to keep up with the other manufacturers).
Ceramics have their place (usually on track) but on a road car I question their veracity. Very expensive for what they do. In fact one of the contributors to Evo magazine (Simon George iirc) who runs a few supecars that he hires out for track days, reverted back to steel disks on his Ferrari when the ceramics needed replacing. In his words the cost of ceramics was ludicrous and the performance of steel disks was only marginally inferior to the ceramics. So from his experience yes they fit ceramic brakes to look good (and to keep up with the other manufacturers).
What I can't get my head around is the apparent lack of understanding from some people of the obvious benefits of uprated or larger brakes.
Perhaps my citing exotic braking systems wasn't the finest example of what most people would consider an 'upgrade', but do people honestly and seriously believe a standard set of Subaru 4 pots is as good as a set of uprated 4 pots or Brembos or AP's, K sports or whatever?
There has been an example quoted in this thread that subaru rally cars use 4 pot brake systems. Are they standard?
I don't question that standard 4 pots in good working order will stop the car. But how long will they continue to be reliable under repeated severe use?
Isn't that the whole point of upgraded brakes?
Once you accept the precept that uprating is better, bigger is just another upgrade.
25 July 2013, 12:48 PM
#172
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Well I am perfect for talking about this.
I have a WRX hawkeye with standard brakes. I have just aquired a new BMW 320d M Sport as a company, after using the BMW for a week or so, I got back in my WRX last night and oh my god, the brakes on the Impreza feel really really crap now.
Just shows how terrible they are. I'm going to upgrade them now ASAP. But I don't have a clue what to get.
I have a WRX hawkeye with standard brakes. I have just aquired a new BMW 320d M Sport as a company, after using the BMW for a week or so, I got back in my WRX last night and oh my god, the brakes on the Impreza feel really really crap now.
Just shows how terrible they are. I'm going to upgrade them now ASAP. But I don't have a clue what to get.
25 July 2013, 02:00 PM
#174
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Well I am perfect for talking about this.
I have a WRX hawkeye with standard brakes. I have just aquired a new BMW 320d M Sport as a company, after using the BMW for a week or so, I got back in my WRX last night and oh my god, the brakes on the Impreza feel really really crap now.
Just shows how terrible they are. I'm going to upgrade them now ASAP. But I don't have a clue what to get.
I have a WRX hawkeye with standard brakes. I have just aquired a new BMW 320d M Sport as a company, after using the BMW for a week or so, I got back in my WRX last night and oh my god, the brakes on the Impreza feel really really crap now.
Just shows how terrible they are. I'm going to upgrade them now ASAP. But I don't have a clue what to get.
Make your mind up what kind of use the car will have, i.e. mostly daily drive, some track, mostly track.
Then speak to a reputable dealer such as Godspeed or AS Performance and see what they advise.
25 July 2013, 02:12 PM
#175
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