Firemen at it Again
15 September 2013, 11:25 PM
#32
I think what is getting sorted is the previous "unfairness" and cost of pensions.......
some work for 40 years to get 50% salary as a pension
some work for 30 years to get 66% salary as a pension.
which pension would you like?
Shaun
some work for 40 years to get 50% salary as a pension
some work for 30 years to get 66% salary as a pension.
which pension would you like?
Shaun
16 September 2013, 07:17 AM
#33
Well if you pay for the pension yourself, you can ethically do it how you like.
The problem for me is when people in the public sector are picking up generous pensions with most of the input (and guaranteed results) at the expense of the (future) taxpayer.
It wouldn't be so bad if the public sector was small, but it is huge and I think employs about half the "working" (
) population.
As for public servants going on strike - don't get me started.
The problem for me is when people in the public sector are picking up generous pensions with most of the input (and guaranteed results) at the expense of the (future) taxpayer.
It wouldn't be so bad if the public sector was small, but it is huge and I think employs about half the "working" (
) population.As for public servants going on strike - don't get me started.
16 September 2013, 09:28 AM
#35
the changes that are going through the fire brigade are similar to those imposed onto the police service. Our pensions have not been finalised yet, but have increased to 15% of your salary. The proposal currently being run is that service length will go up to 40 years service with no lump sum pay out at the end - just your standard two thirds salary.
The police of course can not strike and have no say in this (their union being toothless to say the least - 1% pay rise in the past 5 years with no prospect of any further increase for the foreseeable future.
I'm not sure the ins and outs of the fire service pensions, but i can imagine it being similar - and its a kick in the teeth for those looking to retire at a certain age as promised when they joined, to be now told that they have to work another 10 years for no benefits.
The fitness tests are also quite significant, as its away for the service to get rid of you for not being fit for duty. We have started these at our force and they are not age specific, i.e all ages, sexes etc have to pass the same test. You have 3 chances to pass during the same year and if you fail all 3, they class you as being unfit to fulfill your role as a constable and terminate your employment and hence stop your pension.
The interesting point of this test is that it does not make any difference if you are injured as a result of work - you have to pass this test, end of. Two lads on our shifts have injuries sustained from breaking up a pub fight, they needed surgery on damaged cartilage and were told to rest. This coincided with a fitness test and hence they have been marked down as 1 failure. If they still not fit by the end of the third test then they run the risk of loosing their job for being unable to fulfill their duties. There are now no 'back room' jobs for injured officers as all these posts are run by a private company who run on the bare minimum staff or zero hours staff, as they have to look after their profits.
Now the same will be the case for the fire brigade - they will all be subject to the same test and will loose their jobs if they can accomplish it. This is a good way for the government to get rid of older staff and not pay a higher pension pay out.
I can see why they are cheesed off
Another point that has come to light, service personnel (army etc) who have joined the brigade are possibly not able to commute their army pension across now or having it drastically reduced - another way to force you to stay longer in the fire brigade to an older age.
The police of course can not strike and have no say in this (their union being toothless to say the least - 1% pay rise in the past 5 years with no prospect of any further increase for the foreseeable future.
I'm not sure the ins and outs of the fire service pensions, but i can imagine it being similar - and its a kick in the teeth for those looking to retire at a certain age as promised when they joined, to be now told that they have to work another 10 years for no benefits.
The fitness tests are also quite significant, as its away for the service to get rid of you for not being fit for duty. We have started these at our force and they are not age specific, i.e all ages, sexes etc have to pass the same test. You have 3 chances to pass during the same year and if you fail all 3, they class you as being unfit to fulfill your role as a constable and terminate your employment and hence stop your pension.
The interesting point of this test is that it does not make any difference if you are injured as a result of work - you have to pass this test, end of. Two lads on our shifts have injuries sustained from breaking up a pub fight, they needed surgery on damaged cartilage and were told to rest. This coincided with a fitness test and hence they have been marked down as 1 failure. If they still not fit by the end of the third test then they run the risk of loosing their job for being unable to fulfill their duties. There are now no 'back room' jobs for injured officers as all these posts are run by a private company who run on the bare minimum staff or zero hours staff, as they have to look after their profits.
Now the same will be the case for the fire brigade - they will all be subject to the same test and will loose their jobs if they can accomplish it. This is a good way for the government to get rid of older staff and not pay a higher pension pay out.
I can see why they are cheesed off
Another point that has come to light, service personnel (army etc) who have joined the brigade are possibly not able to commute their army pension across now or having it drastically reduced - another way to force you to stay longer in the fire brigade to an older age.
16 September 2013, 10:22 AM
#36
Scooby Senior
Thread Starter
iTrader: (51)
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wherever I park my car, that's my home
Posts: 20,491
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
the changes that are going through the fire brigade are similar to those imposed onto the police service. Our pensions have not been finalised yet, but have increased to 15% of your salary. The proposal currently being run is that service length will go up to 40 years service with no lump sum pay out at the end - just your standard two thirds salary.
The police of course can not strike and have no say in this (their union being toothless to say the least - 1% pay rise in the past 5 years with no prospect of any further increase for the foreseeable future.
I'm not sure the ins and outs of the fire service pensions, but i can imagine it being similar - and its a kick in the teeth for those looking to retire at a certain age as promised when they joined, to be now told that they have to work another 10 years for no benefits.
The fitness tests are also quite significant, as its away for the service to get rid of you for not being fit for duty. We have started these at our force and they are not age specific, i.e all ages, sexes etc have to pass the same test. You have 3 chances to pass during the same year and if you fail all 3, they class you as being unfit to fulfill your role as a constable and terminate your employment and hence stop your pension.
The interesting point of this test is that it does not make any difference if you are injured as a result of work - you have to pass this test, end of. Two lads on our shifts have injuries sustained from breaking up a pub fight, they needed surgery on damaged cartilage and were told to rest. This coincided with a fitness test and hence they have been marked down as 1 failure. If they still not fit by the end of the third test then they run the risk of loosing their job for being unable to fulfill their duties. There are now no 'back room' jobs for injured officers as all these posts are run by a private company who run on the bare minimum staff or zero hours staff, as they have to look after their profits.
Now the same will be the case for the fire brigade - they will all be subject to the same test and will loose their jobs if they can accomplish it. This is a good way for the government to get rid of older staff and not pay a higher pension pay out.
I can see why they are cheesed off
Another point that has come to light, service personnel (army etc) who have joined the brigade are possibly not able to commute their army pension across now or having it drastically reduced - another way to force you to stay longer in the fire brigade to an older age.
The police of course can not strike and have no say in this (their union being toothless to say the least - 1% pay rise in the past 5 years with no prospect of any further increase for the foreseeable future.
I'm not sure the ins and outs of the fire service pensions, but i can imagine it being similar - and its a kick in the teeth for those looking to retire at a certain age as promised when they joined, to be now told that they have to work another 10 years for no benefits.
The fitness tests are also quite significant, as its away for the service to get rid of you for not being fit for duty. We have started these at our force and they are not age specific, i.e all ages, sexes etc have to pass the same test. You have 3 chances to pass during the same year and if you fail all 3, they class you as being unfit to fulfill your role as a constable and terminate your employment and hence stop your pension.
The interesting point of this test is that it does not make any difference if you are injured as a result of work - you have to pass this test, end of. Two lads on our shifts have injuries sustained from breaking up a pub fight, they needed surgery on damaged cartilage and were told to rest. This coincided with a fitness test and hence they have been marked down as 1 failure. If they still not fit by the end of the third test then they run the risk of loosing their job for being unable to fulfill their duties. There are now no 'back room' jobs for injured officers as all these posts are run by a private company who run on the bare minimum staff or zero hours staff, as they have to look after their profits.
Now the same will be the case for the fire brigade - they will all be subject to the same test and will loose their jobs if they can accomplish it. This is a good way for the government to get rid of older staff and not pay a higher pension pay out.
I can see why they are cheesed off
Another point that has come to light, service personnel (army etc) who have joined the brigade are possibly not able to commute their army pension across now or having it drastically reduced - another way to force you to stay longer in the fire brigade to an older age.
16 September 2013, 06:44 PM
#37
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: manchester
Posts: 1,790
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the changes that are going through the fire brigade are similar to those imposed onto the police service. Our pensions have not been finalised yet, but have increased to 15% of your salary. The proposal currently being run is that service length will go up to 40 years service with no lump sum pay out at the end - just your standard two thirds salary.
The police of course can not strike and have no say in this (their union being toothless to say the least - 1% pay rise in the past 5 years with no prospect of any further increase for the foreseeable future.
I'm not sure the ins and outs of the fire service pensions, but i can imagine it being similar - and its a kick in the teeth for those looking to retire at a certain age as promised when they joined, to be now told that they have to work another 10 years for no benefits.
The fitness tests are also quite significant, as its away for the service to get rid of you for not being fit for duty. We have started these at our force and they are not age specific, i.e all ages, sexes etc have to pass the same test. You have 3 chances to pass during the same year and if you fail all 3, they class you as being unfit to fulfill your role as a constable and terminate your employment and hence stop your pension.
The interesting point of this test is that it does not make any difference if you are injured as a result of work - you have to pass this test, end of. Two lads on our shifts have injuries sustained from breaking up a pub fight, they needed surgery on damaged cartilage and were told to rest. This coincided with a fitness test and hence they have been marked down as 1 failure. If they still not fit by the end of the third test then they run the risk of loosing their job for being unable to fulfill their duties. There are now no 'back room' jobs for injured officers as all these posts are run by a private company who run on the bare minimum staff or zero hours staff, as they have to look after their profits.
Now the same will be the case for the fire brigade - they will all be subject to the same test and will loose their jobs if they can accomplish it. This is a good way for the government to get rid of older staff and not pay a higher pension pay out.
I can see why they are cheesed off
Another point that has come to light, service personnel (army etc) who have joined the brigade are possibly not able to commute their army pension across now or having it drastically reduced - another way to force you to stay longer in the fire brigade to an older age.
The police of course can not strike and have no say in this (their union being toothless to say the least - 1% pay rise in the past 5 years with no prospect of any further increase for the foreseeable future.
I'm not sure the ins and outs of the fire service pensions, but i can imagine it being similar - and its a kick in the teeth for those looking to retire at a certain age as promised when they joined, to be now told that they have to work another 10 years for no benefits.
The fitness tests are also quite significant, as its away for the service to get rid of you for not being fit for duty. We have started these at our force and they are not age specific, i.e all ages, sexes etc have to pass the same test. You have 3 chances to pass during the same year and if you fail all 3, they class you as being unfit to fulfill your role as a constable and terminate your employment and hence stop your pension.
The interesting point of this test is that it does not make any difference if you are injured as a result of work - you have to pass this test, end of. Two lads on our shifts have injuries sustained from breaking up a pub fight, they needed surgery on damaged cartilage and were told to rest. This coincided with a fitness test and hence they have been marked down as 1 failure. If they still not fit by the end of the third test then they run the risk of loosing their job for being unable to fulfill their duties. There are now no 'back room' jobs for injured officers as all these posts are run by a private company who run on the bare minimum staff or zero hours staff, as they have to look after their profits.
Now the same will be the case for the fire brigade - they will all be subject to the same test and will loose their jobs if they can accomplish it. This is a good way for the government to get rid of older staff and not pay a higher pension pay out.
I can see why they are cheesed off
Another point that has come to light, service personnel (army etc) who have joined the brigade are possibly not able to commute their army pension across now or having it drastically reduced - another way to force you to stay longer in the fire brigade to an older age.
And remember, the miners were fighting for their jobs and livelihoods not just a pension.
16 September 2013, 07:32 PM
#38
What would I know.
16 September 2013, 07:46 PM
#39
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, that's interesting - like everything run on the profit principle, payment should be matched by an associated SLA,
The more you pay the quicker they respond -
The problem is when they respond to people involved in a house fire that have not paid anything towards it, if they do and subsequently save lives, what is the point of you paying for it, if they will come for an emergency anyway
For it to really work a paying customer would have to demand the fire service not respond to people involved in house fires who have not paid
It is the same principle that first class train passengers get, when they are pissed of with chavs sitting in the the first class carriages without pay the first class fare
Why pay if people get it for free
The more you pay the quicker they respond -
The problem is when they respond to people involved in a house fire that have not paid anything towards it, if they do and subsequently save lives, what is the point of you paying for it, if they will come for an emergency anyway
For it to really work a paying customer would have to demand the fire service not respond to people involved in house fires who have not paid
It is the same principle that first class train passengers get, when they are pissed of with chavs sitting in the the first class carriages without pay the first class fare
Why pay if people get it for free
17 September 2013, 01:56 PM
#40
No it would just be contacted out like the bins or prisons. The neoliberal vision is about making markets even when they seem 'artificial'. The local government just ask for companies to bid for say a 5 year fire fighting contract, with all sorts of targets in the contact so they have incentives to fight fires 'well' or whatevr, response times, etc.
Brandon Lewis, fire minister for England, said: "The pension on offer to firefighters is one of the most generous in the public sector.
"After two years of discussions and improved terms firefighters will still get one of the most generous public service pensions available - £26,000 a year, when including the £7,000 state pension.
"Someone in the private sector would have to contribute twice as much to get the same pension."
There are people living on less, bringing up children and will never see such a pension.
17 September 2013, 02:55 PM
#41
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And save the tax payer a sh*t load of cash.
Brandon Lewis, fire minister for England, said: "The pension on offer to firefighters is one of the most generous in the public sector.
"After two years of discussions and improved terms firefighters will still get one of the most generous public service pensions available - £26,000 a year, when including the £7,000 state pension.
"Someone in the private sector would have to contribute twice as much to get the same pension."
There are people living on less, bringing up children and will never see such a pension.
Brandon Lewis, fire minister for England, said: "The pension on offer to firefighters is one of the most generous in the public sector.
"After two years of discussions and improved terms firefighters will still get one of the most generous public service pensions available - £26,000 a year, when including the £7,000 state pension.
"Someone in the private sector would have to contribute twice as much to get the same pension."
There are people living on less, bringing up children and will never see such a pension.Personally I'd feel extremely lucky if I can get my pension to £20k per year lol. It's all private, who know what it will be worth in 25 years?
17 September 2013, 04:07 PM
#42
17 September 2013, 06:29 PM
#43
Scooby Regular
Lazy fecking Firemen!!
Sit around all day, get a call to fit Granny Smiths fire alarm, attend 5 false alarms and rescue a cat from a tree.
Do multiple jobs, because firefighting is very Part Time.
So what do they want now? OH, I see - they don't want to retire at 60!?
Well boooohoooooo ....... get off your collective fat rear ends and shut the F up!
Sack any lazy get who strikes ..... end of. Plenty more can hold a hose and play at being the beebaa sound.
Sit around all day, get a call to fit Granny Smiths fire alarm, attend 5 false alarms and rescue a cat from a tree.
Do multiple jobs, because firefighting is very Part Time.
So what do they want now? OH, I see - they don't want to retire at 60!?
Well boooohoooooo ....... get off your collective fat rear ends and shut the F up!
Sack any lazy get who strikes ..... end of. Plenty more can hold a hose and play at being the beebaa sound.
Last edited by pslewis; 17 September 2013 at 06:30 PM.
17 September 2013, 06:34 PM
#44
Scooby Senior
Thread Starter
iTrader: (51)
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wherever I park my car, that's my home
Posts: 20,491
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Lazy fecking Firemen!!
Sit around all day, get a call to fit Granny Smiths fire alarm, attend 5 false alarms and rescue a cat from a tree.
Do multiple jobs, because firefighting is very Part Time.
So what do they want now? OH, I see - they don't want to retire at 60!?
Well boooohoooooo ....... get off your collective fat rear ends and shut the F up!
Sack any lazy get who strikes ..... end of. Plenty more can hold a hose and play at being the beebaa sound.
Sit around all day, get a call to fit Granny Smiths fire alarm, attend 5 false alarms and rescue a cat from a tree.
Do multiple jobs, because firefighting is very Part Time.
So what do they want now? OH, I see - they don't want to retire at 60!?
Well boooohoooooo ....... get off your collective fat rear ends and shut the F up!
Sack any lazy get who strikes ..... end of. Plenty more can hold a hose and play at being the beebaa sound.
17 September 2013, 06:54 PM
#45
Scooby Regular
I should say so!
Ever since the lazy gits said they were worth £35,000 and went on strike a few years ago I lost all respect for them!
They really are typical of the greed seen in some of the public service .... our children will be paying their fat pensions, when our children won't be able to retire until they are 80!
They really need a good kick up the rear end ............................... I would, seriously, get them all to sign a new contract - those who don't will be sacked.
I would pay them for the time they actually spend working, pay them well indeed, but just when they are actually doing something for their fat salaries!!
Other than that they continue with their other jobs and companies they run (while we are paying them!!).
It's a national disgrace on a grand scale ........ SACK THEM!
Ever since the lazy gits said they were worth £35,000 and went on strike a few years ago I lost all respect for them!
They really are typical of the greed seen in some of the public service .... our children will be paying their fat pensions, when our children won't be able to retire until they are 80!
They really need a good kick up the rear end ............................... I would, seriously, get them all to sign a new contract - those who don't will be sacked.
I would pay them for the time they actually spend working, pay them well indeed, but just when they are actually doing something for their fat salaries!!
Other than that they continue with their other jobs and companies they run (while we are paying them!!).
It's a national disgrace on a grand scale ........ SACK THEM!
17 September 2013, 07:00 PM
#47
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just think there is a 'pensions apartheid' between the public and private.
17 September 2013, 07:41 PM
#48
Scooby Regular
17 September 2013, 08:20 PM
#50
It is because pensions promised by today's politicians are paid for by the generation of tomorrow. Not only that, but they don't have to pay you your "contribution" unless you opt out - so win/win today and some one else can pick up the tab.
It's a bit grubby IMO, but that is just the way things are done.
Last edited by cster; 18 September 2013 at 08:06 AM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post