Range Rover driver fears for his life due to being chased by mob of motorbike riders
08 October 2013, 08:35 PM
#121
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Kwik,
Lest play a game: just you and me.
You are on holiday in a foreign country in a hire car with your wife/girlfriend in the passenger seat and your daughter/life's work on your back seat.
The road is empty, there is nowhere to turn of am you have stopped to look for direction.
You are suddenly surrounded by 100 people all wearing masks. Some of them are acting aggressively to you and your wife. You don't know them, but they are angry with you.
What do YOU do next......?
Lest play a game: just you and me.
You are on holiday in a foreign country in a hire car with your wife/girlfriend in the passenger seat and your daughter/life's work on your back seat.
The road is empty, there is nowhere to turn of am you have stopped to look for direction.
You are suddenly surrounded by 100 people all wearing masks. Some of them are acting aggressively to you and your wife. You don't know them, but they are angry with you.
What do YOU do next......?
KWIK jumps out and opens up a impreza engine block with nothing but a rusty screwdriver
08 October 2013, 08:42 PM
#123
Kwik,
Lest play a game: just you and me.
You are on holiday in a foreign country in a hire car with your wife/girlfriend in the passenger seat and your daughter/life's work on your back seat.
The road is empty, there is nowhere to turn of am you have stopped to look for direction.
You are suddenly surrounded by 100 people all wearing masks. Some of them are acting aggressively to you and your wife. You don't know them, but they are angry with you.
What do YOU do next......?
Lest play a game: just you and me.
You are on holiday in a foreign country in a hire car with your wife/girlfriend in the passenger seat and your daughter/life's work on your back seat.
The road is empty, there is nowhere to turn of am you have stopped to look for direction.
You are suddenly surrounded by 100 people all wearing masks. Some of them are acting aggressively to you and your wife. You don't know them, but they are angry with you.
What do YOU do next......?
08 October 2013, 10:18 PM
#124
If I was in that situation, I wouldn't hang around either, especially it they're pounding on the car and slashing the tyres. I wouldn't fancy my chances against a bunch of knife wielding bikers (what were their intentions in carrying a knives in the first place?). My intention wouldn't be to injure and paralyses as many bikers as possible, but to get out of situation as quickly as possible for the sake of my family's safety. If the intention was to injure bikers, then I'd reverse into the large number of bikers parked behind watching the events unfold. No, what the Range Rover driver did is what many others would do given the situation. I would not get out to deal with the knife wielding bikers and let the wife drive off in a now non road worthy car with the kid and have her worry and panic over leaving me stranded with an angry mob of armed bikers.
09 October 2013, 06:16 AM
#126
If I was in that situation, I wouldn't hang around either, especially it they're pounding on the car and slashing the tyres. I wouldn't fancy my chances against a bunch of knife wielding bikers (what were their intentions in carrying a knives in the first place?). My intention wouldn't be to injure and paralyses as many bikers as possible, but to get out of situation as quickly as possible for the sake of my family's safety. If the intention was to injure bikers, then I'd reverse into the large number of bikers parked behind watching the events unfold. No, what the Range Rover driver did is what many others would do given the situation. I would not get out to deal with the knife wielding bikers and let the wife drive off in a now non road worthy car with the kid and have her worry and panic over leaving me stranded with an angry mob of armed bikers.
Google : Bikers knife (or knives) range rover.
Apart from the daily mail having the three words across 2 stories the rest of the results are forums where knives are mentioned.
09 October 2013, 09:36 AM
#130
The arrested bikers were charged with "criminal possession of a weapon".Are you saying that they didn't knives?
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/217012.php
09 October 2013, 09:40 AM
#131
If I was in my hometown, driving in my tin box and 100 bikers approached I'd move over and let them through. If they started harassing me (Though why me out of everyone?) then I'd stay at a steady speed, keep my eye on the road and ask the Mrs to call the police. I'm in a secure environment, in a heavy vehicle being challenged by people on vehicles a 15th of my weight.
I'd put my hazard lights on to attract as much attention as possible so other road users can see and head towards the nearest police station.
As long as I'm not antagonizing them through the window and not driving aggressively I'd hope they would get bored and move on.
Now, let's see if you can answer my questions?
09 October 2013, 09:49 AM
#132
As suspected it was a feeble attempt to change circumstances to suit.
If I was in my hometown, driving in my tin box and 100 bikers approached I'd move over and let them through. If they started harassing me (Though why me out of everyone?) then I'd stay at a steady speed, keep my eye on the road and ask the Mrs to call the police. I'm in a secure environment, in a heavy vehicle being challenged by people on vehicles a 15th of my weight.
I'd put my hazard lights on to attract as much attention as possible so other road users can see and head towards the nearest police station.
As long as I'm not antagonizing them through the window and not driving aggressively I'd hope they would get bored and move on.
Now, let's see if you can answer my questions?
If I was in my hometown, driving in my tin box and 100 bikers approached I'd move over and let them through. If they started harassing me (Though why me out of everyone?) then I'd stay at a steady speed, keep my eye on the road and ask the Mrs to call the police. I'm in a secure environment, in a heavy vehicle being challenged by people on vehicles a 15th of my weight.
I'd put my hazard lights on to attract as much attention as possible so other road users can see and head towards the nearest police station.
As long as I'm not antagonizing them through the window and not driving aggressively I'd hope they would get bored and move on.
Now, let's see if you can answer my questions?
09 October 2013, 10:00 AM
#133
Right, no knives, they simply slashed the tyres with their finger nails and they all swarmed around his car because they wanted a friendly chat. The arrested bikers were charged with "criminal possession of a weapon".
Are you saying that they didn't knives?
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/217012.php
The arrested bikers were charged with "criminal possession of a weapon".Are you saying that they didn't knives?
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/217012.php
The best source I can find on "tyre slashing" is the new york post, all the rest are forums etc IE just rumour.
New York Post says ...
"At one point, they forced his vehicle to the side of the road, where the bikers slashed the father’s tires while one opened the driver’s door and tried to pull the terrified dad out, sources said."
http://nypost.com/2013/10/01/cops-bust-bike-thug/
This report would suggest his tires were not slashed until the very end of the chase. I'd imagine that was an attempt to stop the vehicle running away, rather than an act of aggression.
There's reports it was slashed earlier, but from sketchy sources. The passenger window is smashed also, that could be from the chase or at the very end.
Ask yourself if your friend was run over in front of you on purpose, and the driver left the scene, what would you do?
09 October 2013, 10:11 AM
#134
Worst case scenario then yes, 100% I'd be out of the car to let the mrs drive off regardless of what consequences there were to me. After all this is what this bloke was doing wasn't it? Protecting his wife/kids?.
09 October 2013, 10:33 AM
#135
Nice solid link
The best source I can find on "tyre slashing" is the new york post, all the rest are forums etc IE just rumour.
New York Post says ...
"At one point, they forced his vehicle to the side of the road, where the bikers slashed the father’s tires while one opened the driver’s door and tried to pull the terrified dad out, sources said."
http://nypost.com/2013/10/01/cops-bust-bike-thug/
This report would suggest his tires were not slashed until the very end of the chase. I'd imagine that was an attempt to stop the vehicle running away, rather than an act of aggression.
There's reports it was slashed earlier, but from sketchy sources. The passenger window is smashed also, that could be from the chase or at the very end.
Ask yourself if your friend was run over in front of you on purpose, and the driver left the scene, what would you do?
The best source I can find on "tyre slashing" is the new york post, all the rest are forums etc IE just rumour.
New York Post says ...
"At one point, they forced his vehicle to the side of the road, where the bikers slashed the father’s tires while one opened the driver’s door and tried to pull the terrified dad out, sources said."
http://nypost.com/2013/10/01/cops-bust-bike-thug/
This report would suggest his tires were not slashed until the very end of the chase. I'd imagine that was an attempt to stop the vehicle running away, rather than an act of aggression.
There's reports it was slashed earlier, but from sketchy sources. The passenger window is smashed also, that could be from the chase or at the very end.
Ask yourself if your friend was run over in front of you on purpose, and the driver left the scene, what would you do?
09 October 2013, 10:38 AM
#136
If the bikers slowed as they did, the first thing to check would be what is behind you. However the bike didn't stop, it slowed. If the bike did stop, I'd stop too, not to aggravate the situation. Check what's behind and reverse if need be.
Worst case scenario then yes, 100% I'd be out of the car to let the mrs drive off regardless of what consequences there were to me. After all this is what this bloke was doing wasn't it? Protecting his wife/kids?.
Worst case scenario then yes, 100% I'd be out of the car to let the mrs drive off regardless of what consequences there were to me. After all this is what this bloke was doing wasn't it? Protecting his wife/kids?.
09 October 2013, 01:00 PM
#137
If they were arrested and had possession of a knife then yes, do you have police statements to verify that? There is no proof of it being used on the video.
You mean after the RR ran over the 2 bikes the tires were damaged? Looking at the tyre with no sidewall I can't see how that is consistent with slashing, more like something has split it all the way round. But I'm no tyre expert.
If his intention wasn't to injure the biker then why run into the back of him on purpose?
Something that nobody can really answer is why he did that. It takes a certain person to slow in front of a car whilst riding a bike, an idiot in fact. It takes another certain person to decide not to slow down when the biker was coming towards him. The same type of person who runs someone over with a 3 tonne truck when they are standing in the road.
Fend for themselves? They aren't Zombies! 
Look at the picture at the end of the altercation, all the attention is on the driver. The Woman is leaning out of the door and she's so comfortable with the situation that she's not bothered that the rear door is open, presumably where the child is.
In the same respect, if I had upset someone that much, then I'd assume me being in the vehicle was actually putting my family in harms way.
If people were to attack the vehicle after I'd left it then they're in no more danger than they were previously.
The passenger door window was smashed, could very well have happened at the initial altercation and after seeing a biker with a knife slashing the tyre at that point, the driver feared for his family's safety. I very much doubt that his immediate intention was to try and injure the riders but to get out of that situation as quickly as possible. This is New York, which has a homicide rate that is 4 times higher than London.
Something that nobody can really answer is why he did that. It takes a certain person to slow in front of a car whilst riding a bike, an idiot in fact. It takes another certain person to decide not to slow down when the biker was coming towards him. The same type of person who runs someone over with a 3 tonne truck when they are standing in the road.
Look at the picture at the end of the altercation, all the attention is on the driver. The Woman is leaning out of the door and she's so comfortable with the situation that she's not bothered that the rear door is open, presumably where the child is. In the same respect, if I had upset someone that much, then I'd assume me being in the vehicle was actually putting my family in harms way.
If people were to attack the vehicle after I'd left it then they're in no more danger than they were previously.
09 October 2013, 01:37 PM
#139
As suspected it was a feeble attempt to change circumstances to suit.
If I was in my hometown, driving in my tin box and 100 bikers approached I'd move over and let them through. If they started harassing me (Though why me out of everyone?) then I'd stay at a steady speed, keep my eye on the road and ask the Mrs to call the police. I'm in a secure environment, in a heavy vehicle being challenged by people on vehicles a 15th of my weight.
I'd put my hazard lights on to attract as much attention as possible so other road users can see and head towards the nearest police station.
As long as I'm not antagonizing them through the window and not driving aggressively I'd hope they would get bored and move on.
Now, let's see if you can answer my questions?
If I was in my hometown, driving in my tin box and 100 bikers approached I'd move over and let them through. If they started harassing me (Though why me out of everyone?) then I'd stay at a steady speed, keep my eye on the road and ask the Mrs to call the police. I'm in a secure environment, in a heavy vehicle being challenged by people on vehicles a 15th of my weight.
I'd put my hazard lights on to attract as much attention as possible so other road users can see and head towards the nearest police station.
As long as I'm not antagonizing them through the window and not driving aggressively I'd hope they would get bored and move on.
Now, let's see if you can answer my questions?
This is getting a bit odd now and I cannot work out why.
I gave you a simple scenario and asked you to answer that scenario honestly and impartially as to what you would do.
The scenario deliberately removed any emotional attachment to Bikers, undercover police, the US, the UK, Range Rover etc.. and simply stated the basic facts of this case:
Man/Car/Wife/Something precious worth protecting (Daughter in this case)/empty road/Angry Mob/obstructed exit.
There are NO motorbikes, there are NO other road users for tyou to attract, It is NOT your home town.
Why do you continue to avoid the question as it was asked???
Do you not like the answer that you know you will give?
09 October 2013, 02:21 PM
#140
????
This is getting a bit odd now and I cannot work out why.
I gave you a simple scenario and asked you to answer that scenario honestly and impartially as to what you would do.
The scenario deliberately removed any emotional attachment to Bikers, undercover police, the US, the UK, Range Rover etc.. and simply stated the basic facts of this case:
Man/Car/Wife/Something precious worth protecting (Daughter in this case)/empty road/Angry Mob/obstructed exit.
There are NO motorbikes, there are NO other road users for tyou to attract, It is NOT your home town.
Why do you continue to avoid the question as it was asked???
Do you not like the answer that you know you will give?
This is getting a bit odd now and I cannot work out why.
I gave you a simple scenario and asked you to answer that scenario honestly and impartially as to what you would do.
The scenario deliberately removed any emotional attachment to Bikers, undercover police, the US, the UK, Range Rover etc.. and simply stated the basic facts of this case:
Man/Car/Wife/Something precious worth protecting (Daughter in this case)/empty road/Angry Mob/obstructed exit.
There are NO motorbikes, there are NO other road users for tyou to attract, It is NOT your home town.
Why do you continue to avoid the question as it was asked???
Do you not like the answer that you know you will give?
In essence, your scenario was bollocks
.
09 October 2013, 03:31 PM
#142
No more than you have a statement saying that the RR driver's intention was to deliberately maim bike riders. 
If his intention wasn't to injure the biker then why run into the back of him on purpose?
Something that nobody can really answer is why he did that. It takes a certain person to slow in front of a car whilst riding a bike, an idiot in fact. It takes another certain person to decide not to slow down when the biker was coming towards him. The same type of person who runs someone over with a 3 tonne truck when they are standing in the road.
Something that nobody can really answer is why he did that. It takes a certain person to slow in front of a car whilst riding a bike, an idiot in fact. It takes another certain person to decide not to slow down when the biker was coming towards him. The same type of person who runs someone over with a 3 tonne truck when they are standing in the road.
Fend for themselves? They aren't Zombies! Look at the picture at the end of the altercation, all the attention is on the driver. The Woman is leaning out of the door and she's so comfortable with the situation that she's not bothered that the rear door is open, presumably where the child is.
In the same respect, if I had upset someone that much, then I'd assume me being in the vehicle was actually putting my family in harms way.
If people were to attack the vehicle after I'd left it then they're in no more danger than they were previously.
Look at the picture at the end of the altercation, all the attention is on the driver. The Woman is leaning out of the door and she's so comfortable with the situation that she's not bothered that the rear door is open, presumably where the child is. In the same respect, if I had upset someone that much, then I'd assume me being in the vehicle was actually putting my family in harms way.
If people were to attack the vehicle after I'd left it then they're in no more danger than they were previously.
:cookoo: Do you even have a wife and kid(s)? I don't have all the facts and at the end of the day, the NYPD has more information that I am party to. Based on the weight of the evidence they've gathered so far, they have chosen not to charge the RR driver but the bikers instead. That in my mind puts the bikers more in the wrong and not the RR driver and there is nothing you can say to dispute this fact.
Last edited by jonc; 09 October 2013 at 03:33 PM.
09 October 2013, 04:44 PM
#143
You say you’re no tyre expert, but yet state that based on a tyre with no sidewall you can’t see the damage as being consistent with it being slashed as was in fact caused by going over the bikes? Please enlighten us what part of the bike can cause such catastrophic failure of the tyre that’s built to support a 3 ton car. As the wheel goes over the bike, it’s the tread that is in contact with the bike, not the sidewall.
Slashing would not be straight, you'd imagine it would be in a different direction to the way the tyre has split.
3 tonne of car over a sharp object would have more force than a human and a knife.
I wasn’t there, but I can only guess, given the situation, out of fear and panic, he wanted to get out of the situation as quickly as possible and it was unfortunate that some people were in the way. If the bikers did nothing wrong, where are all the witnesses? There was a mob of around 30 or so potential witnesses surrounding the car, why haven’t they come forward to counter what Alexian Lien and his family were saying, that they feared for their safety and that the bikers were pounding on their car and slashing the tyre. Why haven’t the bikers come forward in support for the critically injured biker (who incidentally hasn’t had a valid drivers licence or permit to ride a bike since 1999) who dismounted to help the driver?
What is the first act of aggression on the video? Not the first stupid thing, the first act of aggression.
As soon as he knocks the bike over it takes everything to a whole other level. Although it can't be seen I'd imagine there were heated exchanges. Once he run's the bike over its pretty much a free-for-all. As I said imagine seeing one of your friends run over, then the guy who did it trying to get away.
"In June, the Registry notified the National Driver Register that Mieses was a habitual traffic offender whose right to drive in Massachusetts was revoked until 2017, records show."
http://www.carscoops.com/2013/10/inj...t-have-ma.html
Clutching at straws a little, notice how it says "in Massachusetts". And where did this take place? Notice how these aren't even decent sources either
. I am the driver.
If person(s) have a problem with me/my driving then I'd rather they would take their anger out on me than my family.
If they attacking my vehicle because I am in it, then If i get out they will attack me.
If they are going to attack my wife/kid(s) when I am not in the vehicle then they are obviously prepared to attack innocent people, so would hurt them whether I was there or not
. In summary, the RR driver did something stupid, was a coward and wouldn't face up to his actions so tried to run away.
I don't have all the facts and at the end of the day, the NYPD has more information that I am party to. Based on the weight of the evidence they've gathered so far, they have chosen not to charge the RR driver but the bikers instead. That in my mind puts the bikers more in the wrong and not the RR driver and there is nothing you can say to dispute this fact.
I don't have all the information. There are a lot of rumours and all news report's use the words "pack" And describing Mieses a "thug" and not backing that up in any form.
There could have been knives, they could have slashed the tires, but I haven't seen anything official to say that.
There are less than 20 seconds between Mieses being hit, going over, all stopping, all apparently getting up and being aggressive and the RR driver deciding to run everyone over. A lot could have happened, but that doesn't explain why when he stops at 5:03 it's a while before anyone goes over to the RR (probably out of fear). The RR driver doesn't look like a man in fear, the bikers don't look like "animals" aggressive and crazy.
As I said earlier, 99% seem to see it one way, I am seeing it another. For example when they are all surrounding the RR after he's run them over you may see them looking for more trouble, whereas I see them trying to prevent the man who's run over their friend, or "brother" if you like, from getting away.
I know I wouldn't get myself into that situation if my wife/kids were in the car (and he put himself in that situation). I don't know how I would act if I saw someone deliberately run someone over then try to get away, let alone someone I knew.
Last edited by Kwik; 09 October 2013 at 04:47 PM.
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