Steve001

iTrader: (7)

I see where you're coming from. but the Sti will give you what you're looking for out of the box, better brakes, 6 speed box etc etc plus a standard Sti is probably cheaper to insure than a modded Wrx

WacPo

Mitch, just get out there and buy a WRX PPP. You know you want too!!!!!

I, like you, are a newby and a tight ****.
After dithering about for years, last month I got off my tight **** and bought an 05 plated WRX SL PPP with 18" PFF7s and Prodrive suspension. It even had dinky little Prodrive mudflaps and Prodrive gearknob!
It was a 'one lady owner' with FSSH and I paid £5.5k. I think its the dogs gonads.
But my point is - whilst using the car for 99% of what I would consider to be normal driving, I defy most people to tell the difference between a 260 PPP and a 280bhp tweeked WRX.
If you intend from the off to go chasing HP, get a WRX. But if you're after a tidy car straight out of the box and just intend to uprate a few things(as I do) when they need replacing, I can recommend a PPP. I love mine.

Terry

Mitch2.0

To be honest Terry if I was going to spend £5.5k on a WRX, I'd just pay £6.5-7k for an STI.

Value for money in my eyes is a blobeye wrx (ppp or not) for £3500, I also like the added value of lower running costs on the WRX.

I'm not a number chaser at all, if you'd seen how much I've spent on developing the chassis of my M3 Track car rather than the engine you'd believe as much. It's just if I get a WRX I'd want at least 260bhp simply because 220 would feel a little lethargic for a daily burner.

WacPo

Know where your coming from Mitch and thats exactly why there's a car out there for each of us!
Happy hunting.

phsyo

For those of us who don't have a mate to flash a 'Prodrive' map on FOC, it really doesn't have to cost £1000!

New Scorpion cat back exhaust - Ebay £170.00
Walbro Fuel Pump - Graham Goode £75.00
HKS panel filter - Amber Performance £34.00
OS Remap £350.00

Total £629.00

Now it's running between 270 and 280bhp. I know the ARF's and engine knock have both been checked, and it's been mapped to my preferred fuel - V Power. Mapper said silicon intercooler pipe was just bling!?

Mitch2.0

If you go down the remap rather than PPP map route doesn't a 3-port make sense, it's only a few quid more and the benefits I've been told are quite large, especially with regards to the length of the torque curve (how long torque is held for in the rev range)?

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

It's a fair old chunk of money for 10 bhp more than PPP.

Mitch i'm like you mate, a right tight wad and like to know i'm getting value for money, added to the fact there is absolutely nothing that I like about the new age STI , far too garish and harsh for me to drive all the time and no wagon version made it a no brainer for me.

It's nothing to do with the cost of them either (as some would have you believe) I can go get one if I wanted to, I just could not live with one they're bloody horrible in pretty much every way I can think of.

If you want a quick daily that's very capable with a few small handling tweeks does pretty much everything a STI can do in reality, then WRX PPP is the smart mans choice.

To be fair I don't think the STI makes much sense any more even for power hungry moders as most of them change pretty much everything anyway so may as well start from the cheapest base you can get your hands on.

The haters will be along shortly.

Mitch2.0

Wise words there Ditch. Taking a WRX too far in my eyes does defeat the point of buying a WRX, if you buy cheap you should mod cheap to make the initial purchase worth while.

I'm settled over WRX vs STI now, it 100% will be a WRX, I've never owned a scooby before I so might as well start at the bottom.

If I do get a WRX I'm pretty much sold on the PPP route unless I really can't find a local friendly flasher, then I will take it to RaceDynamix and pay £350 for some more squirt, along with a 3port boost solenoid.

The only argument for me now is WRX or another E46 330 Sport Saloon - which for anyone who cares is a truly epic daily burner, and a genuine contender for a WRX, in fact it even betters it in a few areas.

WacPo

Have to go along with you Mr Ditch - PPP, thinking mans crumpet!!!!

Mitch, I'm a recent BM man and my 330 was great but this is DIFFERENT.

Just to throw a curve ball at you, I also had a real Marmite car - a 123D coupe. Had the twin turbo engine mapped to 250, it was frigging brilliant and I averaged 42mpg.
Everyone raves over the 330 and rightly so, but the 123 was my fav.

Mitch2.0

I did enjoy the chassis dynamics of the original 1 series when I drove it, it actually had more lateral grip across both axles than the E46, however with no sunroof and no fold down rear seats the E46 certainly seemed stiffer, controlling a slip angle was easier in the E46, longer wheel base perhaps, the breakaway was also cleaner and more fluid, but unless they're on the same tyres that's an unfair compassion.

Both lacked steering feel, both had slightly notchy boxes, both had excellent pedal positions for heel and toe and both had great driving positions - typical BM! lol

daz1968

iTrader: (13)

I did a diy ppp on my old wrx, bought back box, silicon hose and decat pipe from off here and eBay, then bought the tactrix cable and got hold of the map and flashed it myself, ran a few runs to check boost as I needed to adjust the actuator to hold correct boost, the whole lot came to just over £200, its a very good map and as stated a above its a hefty premium above this to gain 10-20hp.

Mitch2.0

I'm a handy mech, but not a handy sparky, installing a chip in an ECU is no issue for me for example, but I'm about as good with a laptop as I am at heart surgery, so when it comes to reflashing I'd rather put £50 under someone's nose and have them do it for me.

Good to know though Daz, if I do get the WRX I'll keep my eyes peeled for second hand exhaust parts - although this is a bit ponsey I do want the Prodrive backbox, I just think it looks the most subtle, and it is sort of OE-ish.

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

You have never owned a subaru before.....

test drive a wrx and an sti then decide,your taking one mans opinion which nobody else agrees with to decide your purchase.

Tidgy

wow some sensibly advice from tubs

lol, as he says drive em both first and see what you think.

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

I do offer some occasionally.
while i do agree with ditchy on the ppp map being a cheaper way to boost power. The wrx being as good as an sti is utter b0llocks but its his "thing" now.

for the record to the op. Ditchy has changed the brakes and suspension on his all conquering wrx as its sh1te .

its your money but most people completely disagree with the ditchys views on the sti. So decide for yourself by trying both models.

stonejedi

iTrader: (51)

I've driving the WRX and STI over the years on numerous occasions,and if i was buying another it would always be the STI,you get a lot of car for the money and the engine and gearbox are primed for potential bhp increase if required,I've always heard people that own a WRX say that they wish that they had brought a STI but I've never heard it the other way around,there must be a reason why.https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...56146854,d.ZG4.SJ.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

We've already done this with regards my views, the main one's being I don't like overly garish cars with bright blue interior that have crap suspension and crappy gear ratios, but that's a personal choice.

I also don't want to drive around in a car that screams look at me whilst having my fillings involuntarily removed, for a very small performance advantage at speeds I never do.

I want a quick ish practical daily and the Wrx wagon ppp is exactly that, yes the brakes are an issue for constant hard use and the suspension is by no means track focused, but it's a road car and I'm willing to accept less than perfect handling for the sake of my kidneys and teeth.

For the record yet again, I bought the car EXACTLY as it is bar my recent bush changes and geometry tweeks, but that's because I know the marque having always had a subaru since 04, and plan to fit the brakes to my other car which is a REAL ORIGINAL Subaru classic V3 STI TYPE R, not some overweight souped up rep mobile, designed for **** holes trying to re-live the subaru glory days in a slightly more grown up fashion.

Yet again the self appointed subaru police jump in and try and tell everyone what to buy and how it should be and anything but an STI is crap, yet those same people change everything about theirs, so yet again I pose the question.

If they are soooooo fantastic why change the interior, brakes, suspension, turbo's and numerous other things along with fake roof flap that doesn't belong on that car, after all that's what you tell everyone else that fails to conform to your idiosyncratic views.

Perfect example of crass hypocrisy, but he's obviously not smart enough to understand the concept.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Sj I have a certain amount of respect for you and your views and knowledge, but one only has to look at your project thread to see you don't actually conform to the view of the all conquering STI.

My problem is with this blinkered view that the only impreza to have is an STI, when plain and simply not everyone actually WANTS one, yes there WERE aspects of the STI that were "better" which again IS very subjective and TOTALLY depends on what you want the car for, AND it p1sses me off that "they" on EVERY occasion TOTALLY IGNOR the OP's requirements AND budget.

And breath.

stonejedi

iTrader: (51)

Ditch I hear yah matebut it all really depends on what he is looking to do In the future because the WRX is a good car but if he is looking to increase power in the future the STI is a stronger base and has been built more stronger as the video I put in the link confirms,but if he is looking to keep it around the 300bhp mark the WRX is a worth while purchase,about my own project,I brought my car in June 2004 and have gradually done what I could with my car but reached a level that for me to get the power and buzz back again that will put a smile on my face,that I would have to build again which I am but still if I wanted even high 400bhp I would of kept my original engine in place as it was already pushing 420 bhp with ease.SJ.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Exactly and agreed.

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

Lol ditchys angry.

spout wrx crap all you want the sti is the better car....fact

Tidgy

cough cough, depends on situations, but lets not get into that argument again

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Your full of **** and still don't have a a leg to stand on, but hey we're all used to that by now.

p.s

I don't get angry, I express myself in a manner be-fitting the intended recipient.

Mitch2.0

Just to give this argument some context:

If I got a WRX I'd never increase the power more than has been questioned in this thread, so 260-280 max, if I got an STI the power would not go over 350bhp.

I'm more interested in chassis dynamics than power, however at the same time I do need to take my lower back into account, which isn't that great!

Carry on gents.

stonejedi

iTrader: (51)

As has been advised try to get a test drive in both,handling wise I would say that they are about the same based on the standard spring rates maybe the WRX being a tad more compliant but that's based on wether the STI had the PPP spring package or what the car you eventually go to look at has fitted to it,try to get yourself to a Subaru meet I'm sure someone would take you out in there car,surreyscoobies meet is today in cobham:http://www.surreyscoobies.co.uk/foru...ead.php?t=8036SJ.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Another short thread about STI suspension.
https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...l#post11260204

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

The wrx suspension is so good you changed yours
And yes mine has been changed too zzzzzzz

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

As in my post above, springs were on it when I got it, which was something I didn't realise at the time, I am however thinking of changing them again for some Apex ones to try and gain a little more compliance, the bottom line is it aint no type r either and i'm driving it too hard on some very twisty roads, but hey ho you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear, so it's never going to handle like my type r or give me the same feeling but i'm determined to have some use and fun out of it until I no longer need it then return it to standard and put my type r back on the road.

I'm not saying the Wrx PPP is a hard core driving car because that's one thing it aint, all i'm saying is the two are not as far apart in performance terms as some would have us believe and STI suspension is horrible, which is obviously something you agree with, but just don't want to admit.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Hey tubbs just found this thread whilst looking for something else, should give you a laugh made me chuckel, how things change hey.

https://www.scoobynet.com/892575-how...tandard-3.html

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

The sti suspension isn't great but it's far better than the wrx though,I do agree with thoughts on the nasty sti interior etc but these things are easier to change than the brakes and suspension that's fitted to the wrx.