ericooper

Maybe my spellings poor, but i work, i pay into are econony, i claim nothing, you might know a few immigrants that spend years perfecting this language in a hope to one day come and take are jobs, but what you have just described is half the problem, you employ these people, i hope you balance this emplyment style by takeing on young British people too? Aprentships maybe? Back to work schemes? Support are own kind, i have no idea what you do, but if every employer took cheap foreign labour then Britain has no chance, millions of unemployed britts, and millions of new houses for immigrants, who send there £££ home, its a very fine balance, that atm, is balancing the wrong way entirely, positive immigration and support to get the sick, lame and lazy into work!

Martin2005

We employ high calibre stats and maths grads. We have a domestic shortage of such people.

'Closing the border' would have a huge impact upon my sector

These are the very people who will be paying YOUR pension

tony de wonderful

Ah the financial sector, the biggest illusion of wealth creation going.

Martin2005

I don't work in the Financial Sector

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Pimp?

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

I used to work in the oil sector, and I'd say about 50% of the geophysicists were foreign. I don't think the company I worked for discriminate against English applicants, but there just aren't enough.

The company in question take on graduates for a 2-3 year training programme, realising that nobody straight out of uni would be any good for the type of work they do. However, to be taken on, you need good maths and physics skills, which many English students don't (because they chose different career paths than hard science).

Dan W

I don't want our country to become like that though.

even if I had millions of pounds and could shield myself and my family from the consequnces of a popuolation explosion I am still hear broken at how this country appears to be disintegrating.

Progress it aint.

Dan W

Can I just point out that I appreciate the contributions you have all made to this debate and noted many of the causes of the population explosion we have seen in Britain but I was hoping to get people to offer what they see as the possible outcome of this population explosion.

How long can the British population keep growing?
What figure (if any) is the theoretical point of no return for possible meltdown?
If the meltdown or gradual disintegration occurs how will it occur?
What will be the process? Decisions made by ‘government’ and so on?

My original post didn’t spell it out quite so clearly. My mistake.

This thread is not about apportioning blame or anything but purely about effects of population growth. Not immigration – even though that is an unavoidable cause of the growth. I don’t want to get into blaming people. I am interested in how this country will evolve over the coming decades. 50 years 70 years 100 years. I am asking because I genuinely want to have some idea about what sort of country my children will live in.

If you can offer your thoughts on this I would be very grateful.

Dan

Martin2005

Immigration is largely driven by deregulation and market forces. At present the UK is seen as an attractive place to live and work due to our higher standard of living. In my opinion this will change as Eastern Europe becomes wealthier and the gap in standard of living closes.

Those economies will one day be stronger, and who knows, maybe attractive for British people to go and work in.

Ultimately this is in our interest as emerging EU economies expand and strengthen, they will be important markets for UK business in the future

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

It's like having our very own David Cameron clone posting on SN

Dan W

Let's hope so. It is an attrative thought that the flow will go a different direction at some point.

I am wondering if ultimately the future powerhouse might be somewhere towards the Middle East?

RA Dunk

Funny how he only shows up with threads like these isn't it?

I liken Martin to a fart really, he only shows up every few days causes a bit of unpleasantness then disappears again. Hopefully one day he might **** off for good.

tony de wonderful

Is that with a service company? If so, the business models is probably based on recruiting large number of asian graduates, working them to death for a few years, burning them out, then recruiting a fresh batch. The company dangles promises of promotions and management careers, but most won't last 5 years, and 'poor managers' are rapidly expelled from the organisation which is a sort of pyramid scheme in effect.

tony de wonderful

That's what classical economics might say, but it's not much more than a tautology. Not much resemblance to the real social world.

tony de wonderful

Yes the Guardian of the 'holy markets'.

neil-h

Tony, what is your background? Every post of yours reads like a copy and paste from an economics text book and it's annoying the crap out of me. I really can't decide if you actually know what you're talking about or if you're simply regurgitating someone elses words/oppinions.

RA Dunk

He's an overpaid sample catcher.

tony de wonderful

I did that in a past life. It was FAR from overpaid believe me.

RA Dunk

I knew that one would get your attention lol.

hodgy0_2

well I am not sure you have much of a choice tbh

even John Major seems to be waking up to this point

bang.

hello to all
I apologize if you have difficulty reading ,
I know little English and often use google translator.

I'm an Italian boy , I live in Italy .
great britain is seen as a strong country economically
because it does not use the euro currency .
in Italy from 2000 to today , the cost of living has doubled but wages do not.
we are at a breaking point, there is a big crisis.

even our country for years has become multiracial
Gypsies ( Croatian ) , Albanians, Romanians, Chile, Africa.
in our country is the wrong law , not severe
many of these people come here to do the master,
they steal , they have no rights but only duties .

in Italy the law is wrong .
if you steal back to your house and do not come anymore, instead we ask excuse and leave them free ..... in the name of Europe
I hope that blasts a revolution here , I'd love to kick *** in our politicians .
if a foreigner enters a country and performs well I think it is accepted by all

I'd like to also compare the cost of living here in Italy with your in england
for example:

average salary of a worker 1253.00 GBP
monthly rent of an apartment in a condominium 501.00 GBP
Shell V-power 1.67 GBP
cost subaru impreza new 35933.00 GBP
annual property tax car (wrx) 477.24 GBP
car insurance 753.366 GBP

bang.

in Italy a person who works independently pay
49% of taxes to the government
22% as VAT on sales
27% as a tax on the gain
A total of 49%

work 6 months in a year to enrich those pigs that govern us

dpb

Ahey, you voted for Silvio !


He's almost as big a crook as Tony Blair

andylinney

I think it is incredibly difficult to have a safe discussion about this subject without someone sounding discriminatory at some point.

If the question is: are we full? Then, no. Far from it, we're 53rd on the list of most densely populated nations. Foreign born nationals make up between 2 and 9% of social housing occupants depending upon whose figures you trust. Just 6.6% of working age foreign nationals claim a benefit. Compared with 16% of the same who are British born.

It's easy to see how someone living in an already densely populated area might feel that there's no more room for others. Especially so if that area is changing because of the influx of other cultures and lifestyles.

To a point, they're right. There's not much more room where they are, but as a nation we're far from over capacity.

The important thing is that as a species we adapt our environment to meet our needs. Look at Tokyo, Manhattan or Bangkok as an example of a densely populated place. Those places are totally altered to meet the needs of their inhabitants. If we decide to we could make Farringdon the next Manhattan by simply applying ourselves to it. If we need space, we'll make it and the infrastructure to support it.

bang.

hahaha no no no

I voted for Grillo

hodgy0_2

yes, the problem is not really immigration or "over" population per se it is the pressure on and access to resources

that is the sub text

you will always get racists, bigots and xenophobes, but to an extent they distort the actual nub of the argument

tony de wonderful

Average wage in the UK is about £2200 a month I think?

But like any western country the taxes are high, but much is hidden like VAT, fuel duty, and the extras like council tax and 'green taxes' on energy.

Car insurance is loads because of people defrauding the system.

Our houses cost a fortune with an average of £252,000 or so (rightmove.com)?

Anyway it isn't just a financial question. I heard parts of Italy have become no-go areas because of gypsies and Albanians, leaving rubbish everywhere, prostitution, stealing, etc.

I think we all like the idea of 'tolerance' but we have to remember our civilisation isn't just something 'natural', it takes a great deal of effort to maintain and 'produce' each generation (schooling, various institutions). Flood a modern country with vast amounts of 'uncivilised' people and it will cause problems.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

I think you'll find it's cheaper to live in Italy than the Uk, but you definitely have more bureaucracy and Visible corruption.

And your gypsies aren't actually Croatian they're Bosnians and Albanians.

dpb

Exactly right


Up to now we've survived pretty well thank you, plundering other countries resources

hodgy0_2

and Parmigiano-Reggiano is much cheaper too - in Italy, (i have complianed about its cost on this very forum)