tony de wonderful

Let's say your local street was flooded with travellers, people with - if you like - an incompatible culture - to 'us', where stealing, leaving rubbish, harassing people outside their group was 'ok' in terms of their morality and ethics. They have no desire to be like you, they care little for you and don't trust you, they don't even want to be able to trust you. What if this wasn't just a tiny 'nuisance' like 'travellers' are now but was thousands more people, like Romanian and Albanian gypsies?

Even from a purely economic POV this isn't about resource use per se because, they don't even see a 'resource' such as private property (land) as the same thing as you. They don't believe in a settled existence, land is something they come and go from, use and deplete, rather that cultivate and improve, like you. The conflict is 'way of life' or 'form of life' as much as consumption of 'resources'.

dpb

Sounds like **** stirring to me, or severe paranoia

When did you last have a mental health check up

tony de wonderful

No just the simple fact that nomadic and settled cultures are incommensurable with each other. It's even worse when the 'nomads' are 'parasitic' on the settled peoples.

Making man civilised has been no easy task, or more to the point 'producing' a 'civilised' subject. It's a constant battle.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

You got another essay to hand in Joe?

I do agree with some of the points you raise though. This influx of people if it happens is neither needed nor wanted, end of discussion.

paulr

Does anyone work in the NHS. I read recently we are taking x thousand new nurses from abroad. Why is this.

1. Do the NHS offer training places and no- one takes them up

Or

2. The NHS has stopped training nurses, and just imports them ( cheaper)

I'd be interested to find out.

andylinney

I do work for the NHS and recently had to recruit a nurse. The honest truth is this:

The NHS / Govt are "training" nurses but, finding a trained nurse is a different matter altogether.

This is especially true of those with specific skills. So, had an 'import' have applied and had the required skills then I would have considered them equally amongst others.

They are no cheaper, salary scales take care of that and control how much they are paid.

mrmadcap

European Social Fund (ESF)

dpb

Well I'm glad you pointed that out, cos I'd never of guessed


Are we part of Europe,

mrmadcap

I recon you think the Sun on Sunday is no way connected to the News of the World and is a completely independent newspaper

neil-h

You know plagiarism is naughty right?

bang.

because if a house is purchased by a person of 60 years costs £ 200,000 and instead buy one if under 60 years costs £ 300,000?

SJ_Skyline

Some areas are overcrowded, some are not. Within those areas that are overcrowded there will be pressure on the public services.

dpb

Kind of seems obvious really

What we need is whole new conurbations somewhere that ain't being used , maybe cambridgeshire

ScoobyWon't

You're just jealous 'cos you can't get laid.

ScoobyWon't

Don't worry. When Scotland goes independent and stays in the EU, while the rest of the UK leaves it, it'll only be Scotland filling up.

SJ_Skyline

Don't be cruel, he can. He just has to pay!

Martin2005

It's a completely legitimate argument. Basic economics. If you are going to counter this argument, then please do so with something other than weasle words

Martin2005

Even when we are broadly in agreement you find a way to have a go.

What exactly is wrong with my point on this?

Martin2005

Do you have anything of interest to add to this discussion, or are you just trolling me again?

RA Dunk

lol you wish!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

We are not 'broadly in agreement' though! Is that not obvious? You seem to think the EU and all it brings is on balance wonderful and then make some post about how one day we will emigrate to the very nations who are coming here as they become the economic powerhouses of Europe.

I have no issue with immigrants whatsoever (in fact much of the time I prefer them to the homegrown population), but I do question their motivation for coming here. If even one of them is coming here to take advantage of our more welfare oriented society then that is wrong.

The EU and successive goverments including this one (being too spineless to stand up and say no to the EU and insist on governing our own country) have done a lot of damage to the UK and it has taken me a long time to realise how much.

Just as a 'for instance' it infuriates me the way we have don't even know how many illegals we have here. That is not their fault, it is the fault of the government and the EU, no one else. They made the laws that allowed them to 'disappear' into society.

Then there is the whole European Human Rights legislation and their crazy rulings about how we have to give these people not just a a roof over their heads, food, water and employment opportunities, but they also dictate the quality of that roof, food, water and those opportunities in many cases making them more privileged than the native population.

We have lost control of our country (I know you will say otherwise, but if we haven't why did it take 8 years to remove Abu Qatada and even then he still had to leave of his own volition... it would have taken me less than one day if I was PM and f**k the consequences from the ECHR) and that is the problem here... not the immigrants!

Until we get really tough on what is needed to get this country back on a proper economic footing such as stripping our welfare system back to the most basic need oriented structure and making sure anyone emigrating here will be a contributor (look at Australia or Canada - you can't just waltz in there and oh look... they have a better standard of living than here) as well as a host of other things I could mention the country will continue to go slowly down the pan!

The argument is so much bigger than 'are we full up' or 'are the immigrants wrecking the UK' despite what the Daily Mail would like us to believe.

If we don't do something (and we won't with Cameron or Miliband at the helm) then we are going to continue to go slowly bankrupt and eventually will have to devalue our currency and if you think things have been tough in the last 6 years, wait until that happens! It won't be immigration that kills this country.... it will be the failure of the powers that we elect to do what is required before the lights properly go out! They would rather cream as much as they can out of the country so they can f**k off to another part of the world when the **** happens than do the hard things that need to be done now to secure a future for the UK!

Martin2005

So you have nothing to add, and are not trolling?

Or you have something to add, and are not a troll?

Given the lack of anything worth reading from you on this subject, I'm going to stick with trolling

Mouser

Do you mean weasel?

...and you too!

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I have no problem with immigration, or immigrants, we just arent that special or superior, in a lot of cases the reverse is true.

However, like a game of Blackjack, we perhaps need a little to assess, to stop and think whether it is time to stick or twist, the recent governments just seem to keep saying "Hit Me" and I suspect we now have a hand of 95 instead of 21, I think we may be bust and not just down to immigrants, far from it, some of the stuff you see our own getting up to doesnt fill me with pride.

Take everyone as you find them, make no assumptions but lets look after who is already here and perhaps just take stock for a year or two.

paulr

We need to move away from a London centric nation. Get HS2 built and expand Birmingham, Manchester, Sheffield and Leeds.

Matteeboy

Now all the bu99ers have gone home, it's near enough empty around 'ere. Love it!

r32

Sadly this all means that the cost of care or pensions has to rise by a considerable amount. Or we lose any old age pension and the NHS too.

It used to be that the money you paid over your working life funded the NHS, any benefits and of course the old age pension. Sadly those who havent paid a penny or at least not many pennis are able to claim benefits and health care. We have to do something different for the future, surely this country cannot cough up just because you come from an EU Country. What come out must have been paid in (in the long run).

dpb

I'm sure they are thinking the same in the rest of Europe too, only more severely