Personal debt in Britain has reached £1.4tn
#151
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I think their seems to be a gerneral consensus that increasingly people are going to have to "raise their game"
My children are under no illusions that to have as adults, and be able to afford for their children, what they have enjoyed (a large warm 5 bed house, skiing holidays in the winter, beach holidays in the summer, a permanently full fruit bowel and fridge - with as much maple syrup and Parmesan cheese as they can scoff, and most importantly a mother who has never worked)
They are going to have to work Fvcking hard (my daughter is already doing this, she got into the top sixth form Colledge in the country - study's for 12 hours a day and has a Saturday job)
And in this regard I have changed my view on education, 25 years ago I would have said it is always worth it, whatever you do or wherever you go
Now - never, unless you are going to the top russel group uni's to do a top degree mt advice would Be for you to become a plumber
Otherwise you will never pay back the debt,
My children are under no illusions that to have as adults, and be able to afford for their children, what they have enjoyed (a large warm 5 bed house, skiing holidays in the winter, beach holidays in the summer, a permanently full fruit bowel and fridge - with as much maple syrup and Parmesan cheese as they can scoff, and most importantly a mother who has never worked)
They are going to have to work Fvcking hard (my daughter is already doing this, she got into the top sixth form Colledge in the country - study's for 12 hours a day and has a Saturday job)
And in this regard I have changed my view on education, 25 years ago I would have said it is always worth it, whatever you do or wherever you go
Now - never, unless you are going to the top russel group uni's to do a top degree mt advice would Be for you to become a plumber
Otherwise you will never pay back the debt,
In the academic sphere, maybe people are having to raise their game, but that is in part due to the fact many degrees do not hold the same value they did years ago, as more and more people are getting them.
In my line of work (skilled labour), employers struggle to find young people like school leavers who want to work. It's a shi*tty outside job sometimes, sure, but the money is there if you want it. With a bit of common sense you can have a comfortable life. But having said that, I work with a guy who spends his wage every week so he's skint again by the next pay day.
Last edited by GlesgaKiss; 24 November 2013 at 09:27 AM.
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It's clearly nothing more than an opinion. It might be an empirical question but what does that tell us about how you choose to describe it?
Ok, so it's a worldview based on someone else's ideas. Is that fair to say?
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Don't flatter yourself. "A profession is a social GROUP which you join, it's a group which closes out competition to protect its members and secure them privileges. It's like a club."
It's clearly nothing more than an opinion. It might be an empirical question but what does that tell us about how you choose to describe it?
Ok, so it's a worldview based on someone else's ideas. Is that fair to say?
It's clearly nothing more than an opinion. It might be an empirical question but what does that tell us about how you choose to describe it?
Ok, so it's a worldview based on someone else's ideas. Is that fair to say?
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Legislation and our registration body define the rights and responsibilities of a doctor. Neither are there to protect their members, but to protect patients. For clarity, I am not referring to the BMA here of which I am not even a member.
After getting a place at medical school, you have to pass a lot of exams (not just written) which some find difficult, present yourself well, follow the law and a code of ethics/standards involving on going demonstrations of quality, knowledge, ability, safety and patient/colleague feedback. This is usually considered to be a lot of hard work.
Getting into medical school requires elements of the above, but the success rate of becoming and remaining a doctor (once you have a medical school place) if you wish to is high.
I am very much not from the background which tends to enter medicine. I have not found anyone trying to keep me out, but found an egalitarian profession with the highest standards which welcomes you when you spend decades meeting and hopefully enhancing their standards. Even if some assessment methods are criticised, they are aimed at protecting patients.
You can try and make it something else, but you are an ill informed outsider and your views have no connection with the reality I see as an insider.
After getting a place at medical school, you have to pass a lot of exams (not just written) which some find difficult, present yourself well, follow the law and a code of ethics/standards involving on going demonstrations of quality, knowledge, ability, safety and patient/colleague feedback. This is usually considered to be a lot of hard work.
Getting into medical school requires elements of the above, but the success rate of becoming and remaining a doctor (once you have a medical school place) if you wish to is high.
I am very much not from the background which tends to enter medicine. I have not found anyone trying to keep me out, but found an egalitarian profession with the highest standards which welcomes you when you spend decades meeting and hopefully enhancing their standards. Even if some assessment methods are criticised, they are aimed at protecting patients.
You can try and make it something else, but you are an ill informed outsider and your views have no connection with the reality I see as an insider.
Last edited by john banks; 24 November 2013 at 11:56 AM.
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But Hodgy, it has always been the case that to afford a 5 bedroom house and that sort of lifestyle you have to work fvcking hard. It has always been reserved to some degree for those who are fortunate in life.
In the academic sphere, maybe people are having to raise their game, but that is in part due to the fact many degrees do not hold the same value they did years ago, as more and more people are getting them.
In my line of work (skilled labour), employers struggle to find young people like school leavers who want to work. It's a shi*tty outside job sometimes, sure, but the money is there if you want it. With a bit of common sense you can have a comfortable life. But having said that, I work with a guy who spends his wage every week so he's skint again by the next pay day.
In the academic sphere, maybe people are having to raise their game, but that is in part due to the fact many degrees do not hold the same value they did years ago, as more and more people are getting them.
In my line of work (skilled labour), employers struggle to find young people like school leavers who want to work. It's a shi*tty outside job sometimes, sure, but the money is there if you want it. With a bit of common sense you can have a comfortable life. But having said that, I work with a guy who spends his wage every week so he's skint again by the next pay day.
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Legislation and our registration body define the rights and responsibilities of a doctor. Neither are there to protect their members, but to protect patients. For clarity, I am not referring to the BMA here of which I am not even a member.
After getting a place at medical school, you have to pass a lot of exams (not just written) which some find difficult, present yourself well, follow the law and a code of ethics/standards involving on going demonstrations of quality, knowledge, ability, safety and patient/colleague feedback. This is usually considered to be a lot of hard work.
Getting into medical school requires elements of the above, but the success rate of becoming and remaining a doctor (once you have a medical school place) if you wish to is high.
I am very much not from the background which tends to enter medicine. I have not found anyone trying to keep me out, but found an egalitarian profession with the highest standards which welcomes you when you spend decades meeting and hopefully enhancing their standards. Even if some assessment methods are criticised, they are aimed at protecting patients.
You can try and make it something else, but you are an ill informed outsider and your views have no connection with the reality I see as an insider.
After getting a place at medical school, you have to pass a lot of exams (not just written) which some find difficult, present yourself well, follow the law and a code of ethics/standards involving on going demonstrations of quality, knowledge, ability, safety and patient/colleague feedback. This is usually considered to be a lot of hard work.
Getting into medical school requires elements of the above, but the success rate of becoming and remaining a doctor (once you have a medical school place) if you wish to is high.
I am very much not from the background which tends to enter medicine. I have not found anyone trying to keep me out, but found an egalitarian profession with the highest standards which welcomes you when you spend decades meeting and hopefully enhancing their standards. Even if some assessment methods are criticised, they are aimed at protecting patients.
You can try and make it something else, but you are an ill informed outsider and your views have no connection with the reality I see as an insider.
Like I said, who gets to decide what even counts as medical knowledge, the right way to practise medicine. It's the profession of course. It's shutting out other forms of medical knowledge (.competition) alternatives in medicine, to the advantage of the profession and its members.
It's a long way from an idealised conception of social relations where scattered and atomised individuals simpily exchange things with each other. Here we have a solidarity, a social group before anything.
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Can't agree more, and with Hodgy. It probably isn't just a modern phenomenon that nearing 40 I am seriously unimpressed with the attitudes and work ethic of most 20 year olds I come across, but it does appear from unemployment in this group that my contemporaries who want to employ them find a bunch of entitled wasters.
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Where did he do any such thing? He made some predictions as to what's likely to happen to people in a certain social or economic situation, under certain conditions, but I don't see anything that in the slightest suggests he had any desire or intention to see those people forced to behave or think in any particular way, or even that he cared whether they did so willingly.
Tdw is behaving like a victim again, hiding behind philosophical and sociological views that have no relevance that I can see to putting a roof over your head and heating/eating under it. Perhaps if he did something economically useful instead of spouting this junk he would be less of a victim and not feel inadequate by criticising the success of others. Instead he will probably opt out and live in a bath or something, all of his own making. Arguably he only has the warmth and comfort to philosophise (or rather regurgitate whatever module he has studied this week) due to the economy he so much denigrates.
Yes I do think many less economically driven studies are a waste of resources, maybe if the young thought this way they wouldn't study useless degrees and then turn up for a job and not have anything useful to offer but expect £20k.
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Indeed markjmd, couldn't say it better.
Tdw is behaving like a victim again, hiding behind philosophical and sociological views that have no relevance that I can see to putting a roof over your head and heating/eating under it. Perhaps if he did something economically useful instead of spouting this junk he would be less of a victim and not feel inadequate by criticising the success of others. Instead he will probably opt out and live in a bath or something, all of his own making. Arguably he only has the warmth and comfort to philosophise (or rather regurgitate whatever module he has studied this week) due to the economy he so much denigrates.
Yes I do think many less economically driven studies are a waste of resources, maybe if the young thought this way they wouldn't study useless degrees and then turn up for a job and not have anything useful to offer but expect £20k.
Tdw is behaving like a victim again, hiding behind philosophical and sociological views that have no relevance that I can see to putting a roof over your head and heating/eating under it. Perhaps if he did something economically useful instead of spouting this junk he would be less of a victim and not feel inadequate by criticising the success of others. Instead he will probably opt out and live in a bath or something, all of his own making. Arguably he only has the warmth and comfort to philosophise (or rather regurgitate whatever module he has studied this week) due to the economy he so much denigrates.
Yes I do think many less economically driven studies are a waste of resources, maybe if the young thought this way they wouldn't study useless degrees and then turn up for a job and not have anything useful to offer but expect £20k.
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Last edited by Chip; 24 November 2013 at 12:42 PM.
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It's irrelevant whether a profession 'intends' to protects its members or not because that is what it actually does even if you rationalise this as being for the benefit of the patient, or whatever.
Like I said, who gets to decide what even counts as medical knowledge, the right way to practise medicine. It's the profession of course. It's shutting out other forms of medical knowledge (.competition) alternatives in medicine, to the advantage of the profession and its members.
It's a long way from an idealised conception of social relations where scattered and atomised individuals simpily exchange things with each other. Here we have a solidarity, a social group before anything.
Like I said, who gets to decide what even counts as medical knowledge, the right way to practise medicine. It's the profession of course. It's shutting out other forms of medical knowledge (.competition) alternatives in medicine, to the advantage of the profession and its members.
It's a long way from an idealised conception of social relations where scattered and atomised individuals simpily exchange things with each other. Here we have a solidarity, a social group before anything.
Medical interventions are dangerous. It is ludicrous to deregulate this, as it would be regulation in other dangerous industries especially where the conclusions are often counterintuitive.
Last edited by john banks; 24 November 2013 at 12:27 PM.
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If you agree that some youth are not economically successful because of their life choices and attitudes, do you really think it is the rest of society that should bend towards them and pay their gas bill for them to philosophise all day?
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(And might also explain why we seem to spend £250 week on food)
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 24 November 2013 at 01:09 PM. Reason: Changed bowel to bowl - Freudian or wot
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In fact at this very moment my third child Gala, is preparing some celeriac for the Sunday roast
Most of our cheese is sourced locally, however we do buy our Parmigiano, in bulk and direct from Italy.
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Why is it each of those things? If more people did things that were economically useful, we would still have literature, art, music. Or do you think that the arts are not driven by money or that artists don't need a warm house with a fruit bowl?
If you agree that some youth are not economically successful because of their life choices and attitudes, do you really think it is the rest of society that should bend towards them and pay their gas bill for them to philosophise all day?
If you agree that some youth are not economically successful because of their life choices and attitudes, do you really think it is the rest of society that should bend towards them and pay their gas bill for them to philosophise all day?
Anyway I'm just saying I don't think I have the right to decide what 'the right way' is for other people to live. The more I hear it from others the more it appears an unwarranted authoritarianism, even when the discourse is in the language of liberalism.