hodgy0_2

Yes, obviously to a point this has always been the case,

My argument/thesis is that this trend is accelerating, and that actually the simple act of "working hard" will no longer be enough to give you the lifestyle your parents my have enjoyed.

hodgy0_2

No we just don't eat **** food

Lydia72

In our family it's the other way round. My lifestyle is 100 x better than my parents had at the same age, their lifestyle was 1000 x better than their own parents.
If you are born into poverty pulling yourself out of it is the hardest thing you will ever go through. Someone who has never been in that situation will never understand it.

c_maguire

You need a torch.
And fresh batteries.

Matteeboy

Sorry, I was being a pedantic ****; you spelt "bowl" with an extra e turning it into a piece of ar53. ;-)

tony de wonderful

A lot of traditional middle class jobs are under pressure, teaching being one good example. I know teachers at my old school who raised families comfortably and live in nice houses, a lifestyle way out of reach of teachers starting now.

hodgy0_2

Yes, I don't doubt it, my contention is that this progression will slow, stop and reverse for most people

Hopefully I am wrong

hodgy0_2

Lol at the food comment from a scot

hodgy0_2

Exactly, in most villages the nicest house was the schoolmasters (and doctors)

I suspect in most villages the nicest house belong to someone who works in London, or if too far away a second home owner

We can look to the US to see how this all plays out

fatscoobfella1

iTrader: (1)

I live better than my parents ever have..

Maybe because i havent got kids..

Some people are lucky and have well paid jobs and careers,they have chosen a path that gets them a lot of money,and thats fantastic but lets not pretend that that lifestyle can be achieved by everyone,thats just not possible.

Its all about money management..My wage is below the UK average wage and my missus only works part time,yet we still have managed to pay off a mortgage on a £180k home,drive a decent enough car and are not in debt to anyone..No credit cards,no loans or HP..
We are contemplating moving to a bigger house,which will be our first debt in 7 years and im extremely jumpy about it. But at 45 i do realise that if we leave it any longer we may not be able to afford to move.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

Lydia72

Would that necessarily be a bad thing though?

The last fifteen years or so we have taken so many things for granted. You only have to read some of the threads on here where people have bragged about queuing up on the day of a new iPhone release, there's nothing wrong with their old phone but they have to have the latest one so they can share it with 100 FB 'friends' that they were first.

Having money is nice and it can make life much easier, not having enough is soul-destroying. But, if you have a roof over your head and food in your cupboard, fresh water and electricity whenever you need it, compared to half of the world you are already wealthy.

john banks

Art doesn't exchange into money? What *^%ing planet are you living on? So I can acquire a nice piece for free and the artist pays for his electricity by the provision of the almighty? The work we do for artists that they pay us for is because no one pays them for their work? Damien Hurst isn't rich? Traders don't make a fortune out of art?

Dr Hu

Yes as I said before.... Houses prices have now massively outstripped realistic wages, so in my opionion one of two things has to happen....

Either everyones take home wages increases greatly, or house prices will crash.... If no one can afford to buy houses... within a generation whos gonna buy them all?

Turbohot

I agree on one as wealthy for adequate food, shelter and clothing. But adequate isn't adequate for a lot of peeps.

About soul, re-incarnation aside, strength of the soul has its roots in attachment. A child with secure attachment but less money would have stronger soul than the one with materialistic wealth base and insecure attachment.

hodgy0_2

All true to a point,

But I am always a bit wary of comparing our standard of living to the 3rd world

and the problem with the "shiny new things" debate is that this behaviour is encouraged by successive governments - people can' t win it seems, which is why I refer to them as economic "cannon fodder"

Dingdongler

BTL landlords.

tony de wonderful

You might want to read my post again, I was referring to the theory of art in question not exchanging for money per se therefore being 'useless' according to its own logic. Anyway such an 'exchange' theory of art is incredibly crude, indeed it makes no sense since art is involved in a dynamic process, it can't be reduced to exchange. If art is like this then there is no art only commodity production, same for same.

john banks

I have to admit I don't have a clue what you're talking about, but I also can't be bothered trying. It is rare that I find an argument so boring and irrelevant to take this position, especially given the content of the original post that had my interest.

cster

Quite.

zip106

Someone on here really is absolutely stark raving bonkers.

SJ_Skyline

IMHO Dr. Banks should offer a diagnosis rather than an answer to our resident loon.

c_maguire

Or buy him a torch for Christmas.

DarkDimension

Too many good years of. Buy now pay later.. Or not as the case seems to be now. When I turned 18 which was 10 years ago the banks were bending backwards to give me loans, over drafts, credit cards, you name it I could get it. Finance on a £10,000 golf mk4 gti then being young at the time I was more than happy to spend spend spend without realising how much debt I was getting into. Now 10 years on I'm still paying back what I spent. Chances of a mortgage are slim since I lived off credit for so many years.

Now I won't even take a phone contract out, pay upfront for anything i need and I'll never go back to being in debt. Really the bank should of realised a 18 year old who was getting 150 a week should not be given a 12k overdraft. 14k credit card and A 10k loan. But hey that was before it all went **** up..

tony de wonderful

The point is trivially, are the only things worth doing with your life what make money?

tony de wonderful

The US has in general much cheaper property and rental costs except in the major cities such as New York, etc.

A better place to look is Brazil where you have a small number of landlords owning vast amounts of apartments and slums. Because they can use their existing assets as collateral, they can borrow loads of money to buy up more property. Ultimately you end up with a tiny elite of property owners owing almost everything. The amateur landlords get shaken and squeezed out.

Lydia72

I suspect GPs spend half their working day poking round pensioners' backsides, I don't know about you but I wouldn't do that for free.

hodgy0_2

I'm not really talking about property, (that has probably been done!!!!) rather the squeeze on the middle (and lower middle class) that has happened in the US in the last 30 years

The fact that large sections of the US population actually have a lower life expectancy than the previous generation, and as a "class" are significantly worse off

I have a friend who was the daughter of a postman in Pittsburgh, a simple but hard working blue collar worker, he had 6 children, all born in the late 50's and 60's

He was able to buy a house, car yada yada, in short have a very comfortable (and secure) lifestyle -- in addition, and crucially he was able to put all of them thru Colledge - this would simply be impossible in America now

In fact he would barely be able to afford health insurance

This "squeeze" is happening here in the UK

zip106

I suspect he probably would.

john banks

Nearly everything I do has a monetary value in terms of earning or consumption. If you have a hang up about money you might have difficulty with this, but I don't get too hysterical about these things. I am rather keen on money, and not scared to admit it and am not ashamed of it. How about you?