Cheaper big brake conversion
21 January 2014, 03:52 AM
#31
K-Sport or D2 calipers don't need to be refurbished as per this K-Sport reply
Personally I would go with K-Sport too,have run K-Sport and with right pads,they're awesome like on the road or track
Jura
I saw that K-Sport brake calipers have no dust shield seals. How does it look then with the durability?
K-Sport brake calipers have forged aluminum brake pistons with a Hardcoat coating. Other manufacturers use steel piston, this rust then with the aluminum caliper together trought humidity. Steel and aluminum do not get along, since a local cell develops (electrochemistry) and the base metal is oxidized. The material mating, the Eloxal of the calipers and the Hardcoat coating of the forging pistons prevent a fixed rusting. Further the pistons of other manufacturers are equipped with only one sealing ring, these seal the brake fluid outward. The K-Sport forging brake pistons are equipped with two seals. The internal sealing ring serves the brake fluid (the system keeps close) for sealing, the outside sealing ring prevents the penetration and a determining of dirt.
This building method is most innovative and compact. Conventional dust shield seals are useless with K-Sport brake calipers.
K-Sport brake calipers have forged aluminum brake pistons with a Hardcoat coating. Other manufacturers use steel piston, this rust then with the aluminum caliper together trought humidity. Steel and aluminum do not get along, since a local cell develops (electrochemistry) and the base metal is oxidized. The material mating, the Eloxal of the calipers and the Hardcoat coating of the forging pistons prevent a fixed rusting. Further the pistons of other manufacturers are equipped with only one sealing ring, these seal the brake fluid outward. The K-Sport forging brake pistons are equipped with two seals. The internal sealing ring serves the brake fluid (the system keeps close) for sealing, the outside sealing ring prevents the penetration and a determining of dirt.
This building method is most innovative and compact. Conventional dust shield seals are useless with K-Sport brake calipers.
Personally I would go with K-Sport too,have run K-Sport and with right pads,they're awesome like on the road or track
Jura
21 January 2014, 09:41 AM
#32
We have turned a few sets of K sport calipers away that we couldn't recondition due to damaged bores in the calipers , the way they have been made is different to all other calipers , and have been made that way as its easier and cheaper to make , then cheaper to sell.
On a normal type caliper , AP , Alcon ect , the bores in the calipers have grooves machined into them and the caliper hydraulic seal is fitted into it , the piston then slides into the caliper , they also have another thinner groove with a dust or wiper seal to stop any muck or dust getting in the caliper.
Now with this design the piston is the critical piece that keeps the seal ( I know the seal does but i'm making a point ) if the piston is marked , or is damaged then the seal is lost and the calipers will leak.
Its not a problem and will be an easy fix with anew piston , or worst case a set of pistons , once changed the calipers are as good as new and ready to go again.
Where the design of the K sports fail , is that the caliper bores have no grooves machined into them to fit the seals , the seals are actually fitted into grooves at the bottom of the pistons , to me this is a cheaper , easier way of making calipers , but the downside is , and we have seen this with calipers sent into us to be reconditioned , is that as you are relying on the caliper bore to make the seal , not the piston , when road muck and dust gets into the bore , and it will as there are no dust seals , it damages the actual bore of the calipers , when this happens the caliper is scrap , nothing can be done to fix it , any damage in the bores will not allow the seals fitted to the pistons to seal.
Yes they are a fairly good kit , especially for the money , but I can see in the future a lot of p1ssed off customers who have calipers that cannot be used !
Another note to make are the availabilty and price of spares for them , we had one customer last week who said he wanted us to recondition his K sports , and had got a price for new seals from K sport at £7.99 each , there are 2 per pistons , and 8 pistons per caliper , so by my sums equals £255 to re-seal a pair of calipers ! and that then can only be done if the bores are unmarked.
Seals for a pair of AP CP5555 6 pot calipers is about £80.
People should look at the bigger picture and not just focus on how cheap stuff is
Cheers Ian
On a normal type caliper , AP , Alcon ect , the bores in the calipers have grooves machined into them and the caliper hydraulic seal is fitted into it , the piston then slides into the caliper , they also have another thinner groove with a dust or wiper seal to stop any muck or dust getting in the caliper.
Now with this design the piston is the critical piece that keeps the seal ( I know the seal does but i'm making a point ) if the piston is marked , or is damaged then the seal is lost and the calipers will leak.
Its not a problem and will be an easy fix with anew piston , or worst case a set of pistons , once changed the calipers are as good as new and ready to go again.
Where the design of the K sports fail , is that the caliper bores have no grooves machined into them to fit the seals , the seals are actually fitted into grooves at the bottom of the pistons , to me this is a cheaper , easier way of making calipers , but the downside is , and we have seen this with calipers sent into us to be reconditioned , is that as you are relying on the caliper bore to make the seal , not the piston , when road muck and dust gets into the bore , and it will as there are no dust seals , it damages the actual bore of the calipers , when this happens the caliper is scrap , nothing can be done to fix it , any damage in the bores will not allow the seals fitted to the pistons to seal.
Yes they are a fairly good kit , especially for the money , but I can see in the future a lot of p1ssed off customers who have calipers that cannot be used !
Another note to make are the availabilty and price of spares for them , we had one customer last week who said he wanted us to recondition his K sports , and had got a price for new seals from K sport at £7.99 each , there are 2 per pistons , and 8 pistons per caliper , so by my sums equals £255 to re-seal a pair of calipers ! and that then can only be done if the bores are unmarked.
Seals for a pair of AP CP5555 6 pot calipers is about £80.
People should look at the bigger picture and not just focus on how cheap stuff is
Cheers Ian
21 January 2014, 11:13 AM
#34
We have turned a few sets of K sport calipers away that we couldn't recondition due to damaged bores in the calipers , the way they have been made is different to all other calipers , and have been made that way as its easier and cheaper to make , then cheaper to sell.
On a normal type caliper , AP , Alcon ect , the bores in the calipers have grooves machined into them and the caliper hydraulic seal is fitted into it , the piston then slides into the caliper , they also have another thinner groove with a dust or wiper seal to stop any muck or dust getting in the caliper.
Now with this design the piston is the critical piece that keeps the seal ( I know the seal does but i'm making a point ) if the piston is marked , or is damaged then the seal is lost and the calipers will leak.
Its not a problem and will be an easy fix with anew piston , or worst case a set of pistons , once changed the calipers are as good as new and ready to go again.
Where the design of the K sports fail , is that the caliper bores have no grooves machined into them to fit the seals , the seals are actually fitted into grooves at the bottom of the pistons , to me this is a cheaper , easier way of making calipers , but the downside is , and we have seen this with calipers sent into us to be reconditioned , is that as you are relying on the caliper bore to make the seal , not the piston , when road muck and dust gets into the bore , and it will as there are no dust seals , it damages the actual bore of the calipers , when this happens the caliper is scrap , nothing can be done to fix it , any damage in the bores will not allow the seals fitted to the pistons to seal.
Yes they are a fairly good kit , especially for the money , but I can see in the future a lot of p1ssed off customers who have calipers that cannot be used !
Another note to make are the availabilty and price of spares for them , we had one customer last week who said he wanted us to recondition his K sports , and had got a price for new seals from K sport at £7.99 each , there are 2 per pistons , and 8 pistons per caliper , so by my sums equals £255 to re-seal a pair of calipers ! and that then can only be done if the bores are unmarked.
Seals for a pair of AP CP5555 6 pot calipers is about £80.
People should look at the bigger picture and not just focus on how cheap stuff is
Cheers Ian
On a normal type caliper , AP , Alcon ect , the bores in the calipers have grooves machined into them and the caliper hydraulic seal is fitted into it , the piston then slides into the caliper , they also have another thinner groove with a dust or wiper seal to stop any muck or dust getting in the caliper.
Now with this design the piston is the critical piece that keeps the seal ( I know the seal does but i'm making a point ) if the piston is marked , or is damaged then the seal is lost and the calipers will leak.
Its not a problem and will be an easy fix with anew piston , or worst case a set of pistons , once changed the calipers are as good as new and ready to go again.
Where the design of the K sports fail , is that the caliper bores have no grooves machined into them to fit the seals , the seals are actually fitted into grooves at the bottom of the pistons , to me this is a cheaper , easier way of making calipers , but the downside is , and we have seen this with calipers sent into us to be reconditioned , is that as you are relying on the caliper bore to make the seal , not the piston , when road muck and dust gets into the bore , and it will as there are no dust seals , it damages the actual bore of the calipers , when this happens the caliper is scrap , nothing can be done to fix it , any damage in the bores will not allow the seals fitted to the pistons to seal.
Yes they are a fairly good kit , especially for the money , but I can see in the future a lot of p1ssed off customers who have calipers that cannot be used !
Another note to make are the availabilty and price of spares for them , we had one customer last week who said he wanted us to recondition his K sports , and had got a price for new seals from K sport at £7.99 each , there are 2 per pistons , and 8 pistons per caliper , so by my sums equals £255 to re-seal a pair of calipers ! and that then can only be done if the bores are unmarked.
Seals for a pair of AP CP5555 6 pot calipers is about £80.
People should look at the bigger picture and not just focus on how cheap stuff is
Cheers Ian
Obviously the quality must be sacrificed slightly but they are less than a grand so you wouldn't expect them to match the likes of AP's or the porsche kit at twice the price.
How old were the Ksports you had in that were fooked ??
21 January 2014, 11:55 AM
#35
What is the price of the K sport kits now ? I did see a while ago they were increasing , then pads were extra , are they still under a grand ?
To put it perspective then , I can supply a kit with AP CP6600 4 pot calipers ( with proper dust sealing ) , 330mm grooved discs and bells , alloy mounting brackets and hardware for £1100 inc vat , so if you look in the right places you can buy alternatives for similar money.
We are currently testing some AP CP5200 copies that are proving good , and will be looking to put a 330mm kit together for around £900 , watch this space
21 January 2014, 12:24 PM
#36
I don't know the exact age , they were the older orange ones so guessing 4-5 years old , but even the new black ones are made the same.
What is the price of the K sport kits now ? I did see a while ago they were increasing , then pads were extra , are they still under a grand ?
What is the price of the K sport kits now ? I did see a while ago they were increasing , then pads were extra , are they still under a grand ?
If a big brake kit for under a grand lasted me 5 years I'd be happy enough to be honest.
I believe you can get the 330mm 8pot or 6pot ksport kit for about £890 without pads and just under a grand with pads.
21 January 2014, 12:26 PM
#37
To put it perspective then , I can supply a kit with AP CP6600 4 pot calipers ( with proper dust sealing ) , 330mm grooved discs and bells , alloy mounting brackets and hardware for £1100 inc vat , so if you look in the right places you can buy alternatives for similar money.
We are currently testing some AP CP5200 copies that are proving good , and will be looking to put a 330mm kit together for around £900 , watch this space
Thats seems very competitive pricing Ian, and probably a better option than Ksports.
21 January 2014, 03:22 PM
#38
Well it's a option as kwik said he's leaving the stock rears on so if brembos up at front with good pads then you don't want it to nose dive too much so just make the rears work it bit more.
afaik your running brembo GT with ****ty road pads
You don't do trackdays so my guess is you drive fast for 5 seconds and then brake? Which is all you'll get out of your pads.
You haven't even tested this kit nor do you drive to limits as you've hinted, so how the **** you can comment on this kit?
To me you talk a load of crap without even knowing for yourself.
Now again, putting your head up folks ***** is not doing you any good
You don't do trackdays so my guess is you drive fast for 5 seconds and then brake? Which is all you'll get out of your pads.
You haven't even tested this kit nor do you drive to limits as you've hinted, so how the **** you can comment on this kit?
To me you talk a load of crap without even knowing for yourself.
Now again, putting your head up folks ***** is not doing you any good
21 January 2014, 04:14 PM
#39
I have set of Ians 335mm discs with refurbished 4 pots an Blue Stuff
This on a lightened classic running 450hp.
These brakes are used very very hard. Sometimes till they totaly fade.
Observations.
DS2500s left deposits on the discs. EBC Blue stuff have worked better for me personaly.
The calipers are obviously the weak point and the set up is getting a bit marginal for the power I have in a light car.
However - I have been very impressed.
They work very well, especialy the calipers, considering what they are put through.
They have proved to be very good value for money.
I need to upgrade. I guess to AP CP6600
This on a lightened classic running 450hp.
These brakes are used very very hard. Sometimes till they totaly fade.
Observations.
DS2500s left deposits on the discs. EBC Blue stuff have worked better for me personaly.
The calipers are obviously the weak point and the set up is getting a bit marginal for the power I have in a light car.
However - I have been very impressed.
They work very well, especialy the calipers, considering what they are put through.
They have proved to be very good value for money.
I need to upgrade. I guess to AP CP6600
21 January 2014, 06:08 PM
#42
Well it's a option as kwik said he's leaving the stock rears on so if brembos up at front with good pads then you don't want it to nose dive too much so just make the rears work it bit more.
afaik your running brembo GT with ****ty road pads
You don't do trackdays so my guess is you drive fast for 5 seconds and then brake? Which is all you'll get out of your pads.
You haven't even tested this kit nor do you drive to limits as you've hinted, so how the **** you can comment on this kit?
To me you talk a load of crap without even knowing for yourself.
Now again, putting your head up folks ***** is not doing you any good
afaik your running brembo GT with ****ty road pads
You don't do trackdays so my guess is you drive fast for 5 seconds and then brake? Which is all you'll get out of your pads.
You haven't even tested this kit nor do you drive to limits as you've hinted, so how the **** you can comment on this kit?
To me you talk a load of crap without even knowing for yourself.
Now again, putting your head up folks ***** is not doing you any good
Ahem !
a bias valve will NOT make the brakes work any better , FYI a bias valve will only shut braking power down or off , so not sure why you are recommending he fits one to make the rear brakes better ??
21 January 2014, 07:22 PM
#46
Now jog on before I murk you
Last edited by bustaMOVEs; 21 January 2014 at 07:25 PM.
same ting homie 
21 January 2014, 07:49 PM
#53
Also, are the 5200 callipers 4, 6 or 8 pots?
Aside from any no. of pistons differences, how does the 6600 calliper differ from the 5200? Is the 6600 designed to fit around discs bigger than 330mm, for example?
Which of the two callipers is 'better'?
Last edited by joz8968; 21 January 2014 at 08:01 PM.
21 January 2014, 07:59 PM
#54
I'll explain a bias valve in numpty talk to help , in a house there is shower in the top room , the water pipes run from the mains , come into the house and run upstairs , now the shower is not running as fast as it should , and someone suggests putting a tap in the pipe to increase the pressure !
Daft eh !
21 January 2014, 08:13 PM
#56
Blimey if you can't grasp the basics of a bias valve what hope do you have with metal structures in discs !
I'll explain a bias valve in numpty talk to help , in a house there is shower in the top room , the water pipes run from the mains , come into the house and run upstairs , now the shower is not running as fast as it should , and someone suggests putting a tap in the pipe to increase the pressure !
Daft eh !
I'll explain a bias valve in numpty talk to help , in a house there is shower in the top room , the water pipes run from the mains , come into the house and run upstairs , now the shower is not running as fast as it should , and someone suggests putting a tap in the pipe to increase the pressure !
Daft eh !
21 January 2014, 08:41 PM
#59
And so the rear pressure can be done and as I said earlier, maybe the correct name of the mod was incorrect as I said I wasn't sure of the name if you READ.
Now stop stalking me AGAIN before you cry again like last time (remember I didn't speak to you first here) as I know how you go on.
Now go carry on grooving your low grey iron discs
Last edited by bustaMOVEs; 21 January 2014 at 08:48 PM.
