Quite Remarkable
07 June 2003, 01:13 PM
#1
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Now think about this car meeting any supercar you can buy right now...it's going too p1ss all over them
id - keeping it real.
That is bloody awesome though.
[Edited by image doctor - 7/6/2003 1:14:10 PM]
06 July 2003, 09:42 AM
#3
On three counts, and I can't decide which is the bigger...
The fact that in a lot of cases this bbs seems to have degenerated into factions all back biting
(you all know who you are, and don't try and defend it )
The quality of the posts has slipped lower than 'loudest exhaust' (which is mine btw ) 'loudest dump valve' (purleeease) Neons (ffs) and so on...
Or...
and this is the biggie for me
the fact that nobody has really noticed this
For crying out loud people, we wabble on about eeking a few more brake with a Dawes devices, or an Ecutec map for weeks, but when it comes to actually walking the walk there are people out there who have, big style!
Think about it, we're talking about a car that most of us could realistically afford that's throwing out more than 550 brake and nearly as much torque
Now think about this car meeting any supercar you can buy right now...it's going too p1ss all over them
probably
And the best bit; although it maybe the first to go under public scrutiny in the UK and hardly gets noticed on one of the busiest bbs known in the land there are severall more like it in the pipeline!
I suspect it's going to get a little bit fun out there from now on, spread the word, the Scoob is coming back...
and it's hungry for more than a snack
oh gawd what have I just said
The fact that in a lot of cases this bbs seems to have degenerated into factions all back biting
(you all know who you are, and don't try and defend it )The quality of the posts has slipped lower than 'loudest exhaust' (which is mine btw
) 'loudest dump valve' (purleeease) Neons (ffs) and so on...Or...
and this is the biggie for me
the fact that nobody has really noticed this
For crying out loud people, we wabble on about eeking a few more brake with a Dawes devices, or an Ecutec map for weeks, but when it comes to actually walking the walk there are people out there who have, big style!
Think about it, we're talking about a car that most of us could realistically afford that's throwing out more than 550 brake and nearly as much torque
Now think about this car meeting any supercar you can buy right now...it's going too p1ss all over them
probably
And the best bit; although it maybe the first to go under public scrutiny in the UK and hardly gets noticed on one of the busiest bbs known in the land there are severall more like it in the pipeline!
I suspect it's going to get a little bit fun out there from now on, spread the word, the Scoob is coming back...
and it's hungry for more than a snack
oh gawd what have I just said
06 July 2003, 12:47 PM
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I dont think anyone who would be interested has missed that one mate..
Un feckin believeable!!
Most people on here only seem interested in what their own cars can do..
The TRUE enthusiasts know where to read..
R.
Un feckin believeable!!
Most people on here only seem interested in what their own cars can do..
The TRUE enthusiasts know where to read..
R.
06 July 2003, 01:46 PM
#7
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Tim- Apart from being up Adam's arsé I fail to see your point.
Some guys can't afford the time to play even if they could afford the mods.
Likewise, some guys haven't a clue really, but why knock them if they want to extract a little bit more power from their cars?
Impreza's, like many turbo'd cars are an easy target for a few extra horses above factory figures for a relatively small cost.
What Adam has done here is way beyond mr Average, good all the same but only if it's reliable!
Tesco's and back and then a rebuild can appear equally tedious to some, even if the journey was fun.
Some guys can't afford the time to play even if they could afford the mods.
Likewise, some guys haven't a clue really, but why knock them if they want to extract a little bit more power from their cars?
Impreza's, like many turbo'd cars are an easy target for a few extra horses above factory figures for a relatively small cost.
What Adam has done here is way beyond mr Average, good all the same but only if it's reliable!
Tesco's and back and then a rebuild can appear equally tedious to some, even if the journey was fun.
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06 July 2003, 01:56 PM
#8
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Until it breaks
tried to keep out of this but have to agree, without tens of thousands of miles and some track work under it's belt, there is no proven reliability, unlike a handful of real cars like bob's and harvey's which are both producing the goods and staying together with regular abuse and as far as I know daily driving.
not wanting to pi55 on the bonfire or upset adam but as above "keeping it real"
tried to keep out of this but have to agree, without tens of thousands of miles and some track work under it's belt, there is no proven reliability, unlike a handful of real cars like bob's and harvey's which are both producing the goods and staying together with regular abuse and as far as I know daily driving.
not wanting to pi55 on the bonfire or upset adam but as above "keeping it real"
06 July 2003, 03:37 PM
#9
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A few point if I may...
Bob and Harvey are NOT running standard internals. Nor are they running standard engine management, turbos, headers, intercoolers, injectors, you name it, it has probably been changed. The nice thing is that for similar cost you can build a 2.5 litre. You don't HAVE to go to the extreme of getting a billet steel crank, huge amounts of headwork, different cams, replaced valves, followers springs, new fuel rails, 8 injectors, I could go on for ages but I won't presume to bore everyone to death
With regard to reliability, perhaps it is worth noting that BOTH Bob's and Harvey's engines have been apart since their full build for various reasons. It is also worth noting that the only reason that Adam has had a problem is that the weakest link is still a Subaru OE part, the liner. Needless to say this issue is being addressed.
With regard to the relevance to what most people can do to their own cars? OK, well, to get the type of figures that Bob and Harvey are getting you MUST go internal or it will spill its guts on the floor. Also, Bob is running a semi-closed deck block. So immediately, you have to get a block, rods, pistons. Once you're at that point, there really isn't much in it anyway. If you want to keep standard heads then just slap them on and you'll get a power band to 6000 RPM. Now regardless of whether you go 2 litre or 2.5, you will NEED a bigger turbo to get the power... funnily enough there isn't a huge amount in it between a blower for a 2 litre or a 2.5 (assuming internal wastegate). So we're still at a similar cost for both types of build.
I don't know anyone making good power who hasn't yet "seen the light" of changing the headers (welcome to Andy F as a recent convert ), and funnily enough, they cost the same regardless of your chosen displacement (OK, mine are different but I get my displacement by adding two cylinders ). So far then, still similar cost.
If you're chasing power you'll need bigger injectors and a mappable ECU. The displacment won't alter the cost of these materially, in fact 850cc injectors are a little less than the 740s! Still similar cost.
With the additional torque, a changed 'box is adviseable. The original will fail a bit sooner on a 2.5 than on a 2 litre because it makes much more torque. Still, just because you have the torque doesn't mean you have to use it, so citing the need for a 'box is more a function of driver preference than absolute necessity.
We've now run up fairly substantial bills for our hypothetical engines, the bills look similar, and since the engines are physically the same size, fitting it into the engine bay should be equally simple. You'll need a good fuel delivery system in either case, so there's no benefit of one over the other there.
Perhaps, then, someone could point out to me exactly where the relevance of a 2.5 litre finishes with regard to someone who's serious about building an engine... ie not someone who's just shoving a set of forged pistons into an ordinary block, with ordinary rods and hoping for the best. I'm sure that both Bob and Harvey would be most upset if someone suggested that this is all they'de done!
Now I'm not advocating one solution over the other. Both solutions are (roughly) equally expensive, and in both cases you can choose to go further, to fit 8 injectors, get a billet steel crank, the list goes on and on and on.... I'm just a bit miffed that people are dismissing it as not relevant for nonsensical reasons.
Cheers,
Pat.
[whose 3.3 litre almost certainly is irrelevant to the vast majority, because it's such a bitch to fit ]
Bob and Harvey are NOT running standard internals. Nor are they running standard engine management, turbos, headers, intercoolers, injectors, you name it, it has probably been changed. The nice thing is that for similar cost you can build a 2.5 litre. You don't HAVE to go to the extreme of getting a billet steel crank, huge amounts of headwork, different cams, replaced valves, followers springs, new fuel rails, 8 injectors, I could go on for ages but I won't presume to bore everyone to death
With regard to reliability, perhaps it is worth noting that BOTH Bob's and Harvey's engines have been apart since their full build for various reasons. It is also worth noting that the only reason that Adam has had a problem is that the weakest link is still a Subaru OE part, the liner. Needless to say this issue is being addressed.
With regard to the relevance to what most people can do to their own cars? OK, well, to get the type of figures that Bob and Harvey are getting you MUST go internal or it will spill its guts on the floor. Also, Bob is running a semi-closed deck block. So immediately, you have to get a block, rods, pistons. Once you're at that point, there really isn't much in it anyway. If you want to keep standard heads then just slap them on and you'll get a power band to 6000 RPM. Now regardless of whether you go 2 litre or 2.5, you will NEED a bigger turbo to get the power... funnily enough there isn't a huge amount in it between a blower for a 2 litre or a 2.5 (assuming internal wastegate). So we're still at a similar cost for both types of build.
I don't know anyone making good power who hasn't yet "seen the light" of changing the headers (welcome to Andy F as a recent convert
), and funnily enough, they cost the same regardless of your chosen displacement (OK, mine are different but I get my displacement by adding two cylinders ). So far then, still similar cost.If you're chasing power you'll need bigger injectors and a mappable ECU. The displacment won't alter the cost of these materially, in fact 850cc injectors are a little less than the 740s! Still similar cost.
With the additional torque, a changed 'box is adviseable. The original will fail a bit sooner on a 2.5 than on a 2 litre because it makes much more torque. Still, just because you have the torque doesn't mean you have to use it, so citing the need for a 'box is more a function of driver preference than absolute necessity.
We've now run up fairly substantial bills for our hypothetical engines, the bills look similar, and since the engines are physically the same size, fitting it into the engine bay should be equally simple. You'll need a good fuel delivery system in either case, so there's no benefit of one over the other there.
Perhaps, then, someone could point out to me exactly where the relevance of a 2.5 litre finishes with regard to someone who's serious about building an engine... ie not someone who's just shoving a set of forged pistons into an ordinary block, with ordinary rods and hoping for the best. I'm sure that both Bob and Harvey would be most upset if someone suggested that this is all they'de done!
Now I'm not advocating one solution over the other. Both solutions are (roughly) equally expensive, and in both cases you can choose to go further, to fit 8 injectors, get a billet steel crank, the list goes on and on and on.... I'm just a bit miffed that people are dismissing it as not relevant for nonsensical reasons.
Cheers,
Pat.
[whose 3.3 litre almost certainly is irrelevant to the vast majority, because it's such a bitch to fit
]
06 July 2003, 03:50 PM
#10
Thats one awesome engine 
Well, until it cracked anyway
Like to see how long a gearbox coupled to it would last too
The keepin' it real thing is what holding me back on my own mods (except the wallet). The last thing anyone wants is to re-build their engines and gearboxes.
Full credit to the poeple who have the wedge to go and push the limits
Well, until it cracked anyway
Like to see how long a gearbox coupled to it would last too
The keepin' it real thing is what holding me back on my own mods (except the wallet). The last thing anyone wants is to re-build their engines and gearboxes.
Full credit to the poeple who have the wedge to go and push the limits
06 July 2003, 04:48 PM
#11
Don't know much about this engine tuning stuff but I was impressed with Plantie's RB5 @ TOTB last year.
Unless I'm wrong (possible!) he had an FMIC, Link ECU, injectors (?) & a slightly bigger Turbo & was prob getting 330-340 bhp? on standard internals. Cost for that £3K ish?
That to me is something that is worthwhile possibly considering if reliable. (Esp if the parts can be got 2nd hand )
Anyone care to comment?
[Edit to add Full Decat as well I guess & poss relevant as I'd be starting from PPP only]
[Edited by Puff The Magic Wagon! - 7/6/2003 4:51:07 PM]
Unless I'm wrong (possible!) he had an FMIC, Link ECU, injectors (?) & a slightly bigger Turbo & was prob getting 330-340 bhp? on standard internals. Cost for that £3K ish?
That to me is something that is worthwhile possibly considering if reliable. (Esp if the parts can be got 2nd hand
)Anyone care to comment?
[Edit to add Full Decat as well I guess & poss relevant as I'd be starting from PPP only]
[Edited by Puff The Magic Wagon! - 7/6/2003 4:51:07 PM]
06 July 2003, 04:59 PM
#12
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Puff, no, it's a good point. But before I continue I don't think Tim was saying "we all should do like Adam", but more "why the hell aren't more people interested in this ?".
What you describe is a very worthwhile way of tuning: get a bigger turbo, sort out the exhaust, fuelling (pump etc), ECU (possible with EcuTek as well now), possibly FMIC, and you can get a good 300 BHP/300 lb/ft (from a UK car) without too many problems (exception maybe for the gearbox). You then have spare money to sort out handling (suspension, diffs) and you can keep your car on the road for most of the time.
It's the way I've done it, and I think it's sensible I suppose.
Nevertheless, it's much more exciting reading about Adam's engine, or AndyF/Harvey/Bob/MarkA/Pat/Christian etc etc IMHO. And we can pick up bits & bobs of info to make our own cars (standard or slightly tuned) safer & more reliable.
Pat, good points as always
What you describe is a very worthwhile way of tuning: get a bigger turbo, sort out the exhaust, fuelling (pump etc), ECU (possible with EcuTek as well now), possibly FMIC, and you can get a good 300 BHP/300 lb/ft (from a UK car) without too many problems (exception maybe for the gearbox). You then have spare money to sort out handling (suspension, diffs) and you can keep your car on the road for most of the time.
It's the way I've done it, and I think it's sensible I suppose.
Nevertheless, it's much more exciting reading about Adam's engine, or AndyF/Harvey/Bob/MarkA/Pat/Christian etc etc IMHO. And we can pick up bits & bobs of info to make our own cars (standard or slightly tuned) safer & more reliable.
Pat, good points as always
06 July 2003, 06:41 PM
#14
EB
Done the suspension bit & I was happy 'til I saw Plantie's
But that, coupled with STi PPPs coming in @ 300+ out the crate, & the big bhp peeps coming along, means that I could get seriously wasted on track
I am interested in this engine stuff - pleased to see that the famed choclolate engines of IM aren't quite so. I follow many of the threads but have nothing to contribute as I don't know enough
I also try & stay away from them a bit as they could prove v. dangerous for my wallet
Done the suspension bit & I was happy 'til I saw Plantie's
But that, coupled with STi PPPs coming in @ 300+ out the crate, & the big bhp peeps coming along, means that I could get seriously wasted on track
I am interested in this engine stuff - pleased to see that the famed choclolate engines of IM aren't quite so. I follow many of the threads but have nothing to contribute as I don't know enough
I also try & stay away from them a bit as they could prove v. dangerous for my wallet
06 July 2003, 07:23 PM
#15
James, Neil's car was slow, 3.6mph slower in fact I wish I had his bottle when it came to the transmission though maybe I could have hit the limiter in top before crossing the line then
Spoon, my point with this was to to spread the word beyond Drivetrain and maybe raise the tone in general a bit
When you look at the prices people on here have paid main dealers to rebuild a standard engine it's alarming to realise that they could get something a lot better for around the same money!
I've pretty well reached the limit of what can safely be achieved with a standard engine and realise that the way ahead is to either build a new engine and fit an uprated transmission or buy a faster car. The problem is, with a budget of 20k (8k for my car and the 12k engine transmission budget) what do you know you can buy that has 550+ brake and 500+lb/ft or torque and can still make it round corners? I could only find an Ultima and then I would have to be very good and scavaging bit to stay on target!
Reliability wise, Adam's engine has yet to be proven, but there are guy's in the USA and Australia who have been running similar power cars, with fairly similar specifications for a long time now without much issue.
And, as I said, this isn't the first here in the UK, there are several others coming along soon; Wallis, Blamire, Banks plus a few others who we can't mention...yet...
Serious power is becoming affordable
But the insurance still isn't
I wish I had his bottle when it came to the transmission though maybe I could have hit the limiter in top before crossing the line then Spoon, my point with this was to to spread the word beyond Drivetrain and maybe raise the tone in general a bit
When you look at the prices people on here have paid main dealers to rebuild a standard engine it's alarming to realise that they could get something a lot better for around the same money!
I've pretty well reached the limit of what can safely be achieved with a standard engine and realise that the way ahead is to either build a new engine and fit an uprated transmission or buy a faster car. The problem is, with a budget of 20k (8k for my car and the 12k engine transmission budget) what do you know you can buy that has 550+ brake and 500+lb/ft or torque and can still make it round corners? I could only find an Ultima
and then I would have to be very good and scavaging bit to stay on target!Reliability wise, Adam's engine has yet to be proven, but there are guy's in the USA and Australia who have been running similar power cars, with fairly similar specifications for a long time now without much issue.
And, as I said, this isn't the first here in the UK, there are several others coming along soon; Wallis, Blamire, Banks plus a few others who we can't mention...yet...
Serious power is becoming affordable
But the insurance still isn't
06 July 2003, 07:40 PM
#16
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Well put mate!!
More of a statement that some of the other Marque's should beware perhaps?
Even though Adam's car may not be 'Proven' it still goes to show that some serious power can be had from Scoobs.
Once the Liner situ has been sorted (already i think) time will tell if it will go the distance or not.. And what power levels??
I wonder what sort of power a Skyline would need to have to give the same acceleration as a 550/500 scoob??
Me thinks just a little more
Rob
More of a statement that some of the other Marque's should beware perhaps?
Even though Adam's car may not be 'Proven' it still goes to show that some serious power can be had from Scoobs.
Once the Liner situ has been sorted (already i think) time will tell if it will go the distance or not.. And what power levels??
I wonder what sort of power a Skyline would need to have to give the same acceleration as a 550/500 scoob??
Me thinks just a little more
Rob
06 July 2003, 10:14 PM
#17
One of the nicer things about using ECU's like Gems, Motec, Pectel etc is that you can run a couple of maps, for different fuels, boost etc, so you can have a nice safe day to day map and then the ***** out nutter one for the track...
And the way Adam's is set up you can always run a bit more octane booster and water injection (which it didn't have on the dyno) for added safety...
My only real worry about the power levels are to do with traction, the way that torque comes in its going to shred tyres
And the way Adam's is set up you can always run a bit more octane booster and water injection (which it didn't have on the dyno) for added safety...
My only real worry about the power levels are to do with traction, the way that torque comes in its going to shred tyres
06 July 2003, 10:40 PM
#18
Bl**dy hell, billet steel crank, huge amounts of headwork, different cams, replaced valves, followers springs, new fuel rails, 8 injectors, I don't have any of that, mines all std STi stuff, you are describing Marks engine (that was) aren't you? yes I use an STi7 block ... std isn't it ? yes it was taken down when I replaced the crap Cossie pistons with Omegas, so what its still done over 20,000 miles and still going strong, Cosies eat oil ... the Omegas don't though. Pat I fail to see your point. What you describe sounds like someone elses spec though its not mine or Harveys. We are both using basically std STi gearboxes as well, so that can't be all wrong after this many miles.
Any ecu can be used with variable maps, all you need to do is load up what you want.
Get a life gents, we "should" be helping each other out, instead "mines bigger than yours" rules. I'm booked up for TOTB2 but if this is whats in store I'm seriously considering not bothering, thats supposed to be Scoobs against the world ... lol not at this rate !!
Tim you are well known as a supporter of Mark et al, nothing wrong in loyalty. Pat I'm very suprised that you joined in at all, thought you had been above this. (says he wondering why he even bothered posting)
Bob ... starting to get really disappointed by all this.
Any ecu can be used with variable maps, all you need to do is load up what you want.
Get a life gents, we "should" be helping each other out, instead "mines bigger than yours" rules. I'm booked up for TOTB2 but if this is whats in store I'm seriously considering not bothering, thats supposed to be Scoobs against the world ... lol not at this rate !!
Tim you are well known as a supporter of Mark et al, nothing wrong in loyalty. Pat I'm very suprised that you joined in at all, thought you had been above this. (says he wondering why he even bothered posting)
Bob ... starting to get really disappointed by all this.
06 July 2003, 11:10 PM
#20
hmmm..
I read 22b quite a bit, I don't post on there because I get the 'circle of knowledge' feeling about it. I could almost picture people looking in disgust if I added my 2 pence.
Then again there is some pretty childish, mines better than yours stuff, and that crap about Mark on the thread in the link for example
For the record, Mark at Lateral Performance was one of the first 'scooby' people I spoke with when I bought my car. To this day he has been one of the best people I've come accross when buying parts. He offered me great friendly advice, provided me with what I wanted for my car and at a great price.
I couldn't give a sh*t if he ran his business from a wendy house at the bottom of my garden, infact that company that ran a 'specific' advert could learn a thing or two about customer relations IMO. I know it wasn't just aimed at Mark but people like Jamie Whitfield are in this category too, also someone who offers excellent service.
I read 22b quite a bit, I don't post on there because I get the 'circle of knowledge' feeling about it. I could almost picture people looking in disgust if I added my 2 pence.
Then again there is some pretty childish, mines better than yours stuff, and that crap about Mark on the thread in the link for example
For the record, Mark at Lateral Performance was one of the first 'scooby' people I spoke with when I bought my car. To this day he has been one of the best people I've come accross when buying parts. He offered me great friendly advice, provided me with what I wanted for my car and at a great price.
I couldn't give a sh*t if he ran his business from a wendy house at the bottom of my garden, infact that company that ran a 'specific' advert could learn a thing or two about customer relations IMO. I know it wasn't just aimed at Mark but people like Jamie Whitfield are in this category too, also someone who offers excellent service.
07 July 2003, 12:00 AM
#21
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It's a real shame that this has all got taken out of context.
Bob,
I haven't seen a "mines bigger than yours" comment ANYWHERE. Pat was just pointing out that even the best of the current cars, have had one issue, or another along the way, and the cost involved in building a 2.5lt, is very similar to building a 2.0lt.
I'm amazazed at the negative attitude from some, towards the first Subaru engine to officially break 500bhp/500ftlbs in the UK, even if one of the liners did fail in the process.
Adam wanted the failure, as well as the results posted, so people could see what could be achieved, even if there were issues that needed addressing. In his case a flawed, or weak liner, rather than (quote) "crap" Cossie pistons..............
What is really amusing, is that the negative comments mainly eminate from those people who are most notorious for keeping us informed of their results
Bobs right, we should be trying to help each other, and work towards getting the best from our cars. People should be encouraging Adam, and alike, not putting them down !
Mark.
Bob,
I haven't seen a "mines bigger than yours" comment ANYWHERE. Pat was just pointing out that even the best of the current cars, have had one issue, or another along the way, and the cost involved in building a 2.5lt, is very similar to building a 2.0lt.
I'm amazazed at the negative attitude from some, towards the first Subaru engine to officially break 500bhp/500ftlbs in the UK, even if one of the liners did fail in the process.
Adam wanted the failure, as well as the results posted, so people could see what could be achieved, even if there were issues that needed addressing. In his case a flawed, or weak liner, rather than (quote) "crap" Cossie pistons..............
What is really amusing, is that the negative comments mainly eminate from those people who are most notorious for keeping us informed of their results
Bobs right, we should be trying to help each other, and work towards getting the best from our cars. People should be encouraging Adam, and alike, not putting them down !
Mark.
07 July 2003, 12:17 AM
#22
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James,
Missed your post, but thanks.
Don't EVER think that you can't post on 22b, that's what it there for !
Mark.
Missed your post, but thanks.
Don't EVER think that you can't post on 22b, that's what it there for !
Mark.
07 July 2003, 05:49 PM
#23
Hi Mark, no problem.
Customer relations and knowledge means everything to me when buying parts. Remember pestering you for some advice last year too, grateful for your patience.
Clutch and flywheel still holding up to the mrs' driving too... well thats my excuse for the death of the std one
Keep up the good work!
Customer relations and knowledge means everything to me when buying parts. Remember pestering you for some advice last year too
, grateful for your patience.Clutch and flywheel still holding up to the mrs' driving too
... well thats my excuse for the death of the std oneKeep up the good work!
07 July 2003, 07:03 PM
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http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/thread.asp?threadid=227520
enough said, trying to get this car off the ground starting small and working up,
but so far no go, nobody really gives two sh**** and I all I want is some info for a newbie scoobynetter,
and being one of the first to work the STI-8 i really could do with some advice
enough said, trying to get this car off the ground starting small and working up,
but so far no go, nobody really gives two sh**** and I all I want is some info for a newbie scoobynetter,
and being one of the first to work the STI-8 i really could do with some advice
07 July 2003, 07:47 PM
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CTR... so you posted this about 20 minutes ago, and you're not happy because no one replied yet ?
Hmmm...
FWIW, you do have to consider "tuning" as a "package". I'm sure the people at Prodrive will probably cringe when they read you fitted their map and then added "racing" (ahum) suction kits & more free flowing exhaust. A big no-no BTW, and an accident waiting to happen (but that will be scaremongering, right ?)
No offense meant, but you are in a way typical of the new type of Scoobynet user that wants instant gratification in 20 minutes.
Just give people some time ?
MoTEC sounds like a good idea, and I would drive the car *very* gently in it's current state of tune
Hmmm...
FWIW, you do have to consider "tuning" as a "package". I'm sure the people at Prodrive will probably cringe when they read you fitted their map and then added "racing" (ahum) suction kits & more free flowing exhaust. A big no-no BTW, and an accident waiting to happen (but that will be scaremongering, right ?)
No offense meant, but you are in a way typical of the new type of Scoobynet user that wants instant gratification in 20 minutes.
Just give people some time ?
MoTEC sounds like a good idea, and I would drive the car *very* gently in it's current state of tune
07 July 2003, 08:44 PM
#26
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EvilBevel,
maybe a little harsh of me but have actually been asking for about a month now,in several other posts, a few have answered but have been critical rather than helpful, albeit I dont want anyone who has replied to those to take it the wrong way
its just frustrating,
not to concerned about PPP if i could turn back time i would proably have gone my own route from the start
I thought the SECS and motec would have been sufficient.
when you say I should take care when driving it in it's current state, could you elaborate for me !!
what are my concerns !! and please go gentle I am not generally this uptight but as you can imagine I dont want the block to go bang
maybe a little harsh of me but have actually been asking for about a month now,in several other posts, a few have answered but have been critical rather than helpful, albeit I dont want anyone who has replied to those to take it the wrong way
its just frustrating,
not to concerned about PPP if i could turn back time i would proably have gone my own route from the start
I thought the SECS and motec would have been sufficient.
when you say I should take care when driving it in it's current state, could you elaborate for me !!
what are my concerns !! and please go gentle I am not generally this uptight but as you can imagine I dont want the block to go bang
07 July 2003, 10:05 PM
#29
Well done Adam, this looks really like what I'm after. When it's going in your car and you've proved the reliability, can I have the spec so I can build the same?
Mind you, if it was my engine then I'm bu66ered if I'd tell anyone else how I did it. I wouldn't be special anymore or be able to beat anyone else on track. I certainly be a little upset if someone beat my power output too, after all my hard work. Don't think I'd really want to congratulate them either. But that's just me.
F
Mind you, if it was my engine then I'm bu66ered if I'd tell anyone else how I did it. I wouldn't be special anymore or be able to beat anyone else on track. I certainly be a little upset if someone beat my power output too, after all my hard work. Don't think I'd really want to congratulate them either. But that's just me.
F
07 July 2003, 10:18 PM
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floyd, its not the most powerful and it certainly wont be the fastest.
But everything that went into it, was chosen to meet my goals.
specifically I spent money going for 8 injectors so that I would have higher granularity using 4 small injectors for this like idle control.
I went with a top notch ecu so that I would have as many safety features as possible as well as knock control built in, not to mention closed loop idle control.
I did not reverse my manifold as I refuse to lose air con as I want the car to be comfortable over long journeys.
The waste gate rejoins the main down pipe in order to reduce noise.
I haven't gone for a pat tec exhaust but retained my scoobymani 3 inch system. it is more restrictive but is also quieter and looks better.
I am not all that bothered about chasing more and more horsepower and at the moment am content with the numbers it made, Am sure once the liner has been sorted then 600bhp and probably 600lbft will be on the cards, but it has to stop somewhere.
My main concernd was a car that was drivable. I am keen to see what it can produce in terms of boost at 3k rpm on the road.
I am not going to publish the spec, as I did invest lots of time and money getting it to where it is, and there isn't anything special about what I have done.
Am happy to disclose information to friends who would like to know what I have done, but I don't feel its fair for people to cheaply copy what has cost me over 20k and 18 months waiting to obtain. and it isnt even there yet.
Am sorry if this sounds harsh, but no one else was going for it and I couldn't wait to try to copy someone else.
At the time there were certainly no companies doing this kind of power, and as of yet, no one has it proven in this country. Looks like I am going to have to prove that it can be reliable myself.
Am not even sure of the claims of the companies in the rest of the world. the aussies get some great 1/4 mile times, and quote things like 550bhp atw, but these are rolling road figures and again are always going to open to specualtion. On top of this they arent drive everyday cars.
I dont actually believe that with my car producing in excess of 550 of each it really can stay reliable 200+bhp/litre is not intended to last forever. This is another reason for going for the ecu I did, I will have a boost control pot next to me, which will enable me to drive it knowing that I am not fully stressing it all the time.
The nice thing is, on the wastegate spring alone, it is still making in the region of 400bhp, thats at 5psi to my knowledge!
I think that will be fine for everyday usage.
But everything that went into it, was chosen to meet my goals.
specifically I spent money going for 8 injectors so that I would have higher granularity using 4 small injectors for this like idle control.
I went with a top notch ecu so that I would have as many safety features as possible as well as knock control built in, not to mention closed loop idle control.
I did not reverse my manifold as I refuse to lose air con as I want the car to be comfortable over long journeys.
The waste gate rejoins the main down pipe in order to reduce noise.
I haven't gone for a pat tec exhaust but retained my scoobymani 3 inch system. it is more restrictive but is also quieter and looks better.
I am not all that bothered about chasing more and more horsepower and at the moment am content with the numbers it made, Am sure once the liner has been sorted then 600bhp and probably 600lbft will be on the cards, but it has to stop somewhere.
My main concernd was a car that was drivable. I am keen to see what it can produce in terms of boost at 3k rpm on the road.
I am not going to publish the spec, as I did invest lots of time and money getting it to where it is, and there isn't anything special about what I have done.
Am happy to disclose information to friends who would like to know what I have done, but I don't feel its fair for people to cheaply copy what has cost me over 20k and 18 months waiting to obtain. and it isnt even there yet.
Am sorry if this sounds harsh, but no one else was going for it and I couldn't wait to try to copy someone else.
At the time there were certainly no companies doing this kind of power, and as of yet, no one has it proven in this country. Looks like I am going to have to prove that it can be reliable myself.
Am not even sure of the claims of the companies in the rest of the world. the aussies get some great 1/4 mile times, and quote things like 550bhp atw, but these are rolling road figures and again are always going to open to specualtion. On top of this they arent drive everyday cars.
I dont actually believe that with my car producing in excess of 550 of each it really can stay reliable 200+bhp/litre is not intended to last forever. This is another reason for going for the ecu I did, I will have a boost control pot next to me, which will enable me to drive it knowing that I am not fully stressing it all the time.
The nice thing is, on the wastegate spring alone, it is still making in the region of 400bhp, thats at 5psi to my knowledge!
I think that will be fine for everyday usage.
