Wmscooby

iTrader: (24)

Im sick of my job and would like to get into IT anyone got any advice about how to do so without going on the sill 3k+ courses

Any feedback would help

Mark

ChefDude

no one will hire you off the back of a training course anyway - well for a developer anyway.

If you want to do coding/development, find a trainee programmer position and learn how to code.

you'll need to learn basic object orientation, development lifecycle and don't fvck around with languages either; if you want to continually work, learn (the easy ones) c# or java.

c++ is good money, but you have to be genuinely good and you need to be immersed for 2 solid years.

ChefDude

you're in west midlands i see. i'm willing to bet you will have to an excellent developer to earn more than £30K in a permanent position.

GaryK

Yep as the chef says in demand skills are for c#/java.

Dont expect to walk into a high earning position. Theres no such thing as an 'apprenticeship' but you will have to take a hit earnings wise for several years.

Gary

Wmscooby

iTrader: (24)

Not adverse to doing that whats the basic salary then?

Iain Young

Depends on the company and location. I've seen entry level programmer roles from around £11k up to £24k. Most require some sort of programming knowledge before you apply however (I think you'll find it hard to find employment without any programming knowledge under your belt beforehand).

Luckily both C# express, and Java are available as free downloads, and there are tons of tutorials etc on the web, so it wouldn't hurt to try some stuff yourself before applying...

ChefDude

when i went from cobol/es9000 assembler/c to visual basic i just sat there and learned how to use each control in the tool box; command button, list box, text box, etc every method and every event.

learn SQL - get yourself SQL server. again, if you want to stay in work it's Oracle and/or SQL server. learn how to retrieve data from 1 table, then a combination of data from several tables using JOIN. learn normalisation.

After that learn connecting to and using databases from your code. don't *ever* use database controls, learn to connect via ADO or java equivalent using an ODBC connection.

then go for the trainee dev job

ChefDude

oh yes and if don't learn anything else, remember a subroutine or function does one thing and one thing only. this one rule will help you write maintainable and readable code.

the amount of devs that think it's clever to stick everything in one subroutine need their heads examined

Iain Young

It's JDBC from Java

Godd suggestions though. SQL is a very useful thing to have in your toolbox...

ChefDude

In your interview for a programming position if can understand and can talk about Design Patterns, you'll get the job on the spot


(i'm not kidding)

Iain Young

Remember to stick some comments into your code as well. I've been spending the last week trawling though some 10+year old c code. Several thousand lines of code to look through with no comments doesn't make for a happy developer

ChefDude

we'll go through classes, inheritance and polymorphism tomorrow

GazTheHat

don't forget encapsulation.



Good points from the Chef. Best thing is to start learning at home. Understand the terminology.

If you can talk the talk, you'll be in the door.

If you get the chance to do a junior role, but really learn the ropes, it's worth taking the hit for the future.

Wmscooby

iTrader: (24)

Been looking for these free downloads can't seam to find them lol help!!!!

Wmscooby

iTrader: (24)

Thats really good advise chef thanks

bob269

I thought that was knitting ?

Iain Young

For Java - Java SE Downloads

You can download just the sdk, or you can download it with the netbeans java IDE, (alternatively, Eclipse is quite good).

For c# - Visual C#


Hope that helps

Iain Young

The two can be worryingly close sometimes

ChefDude

and knitters being like software architects? oh yes

I don't seem to be able to communicate these days without saying 'abstracted'

Wmscooby

iTrader: (24)

Thanks downloading now

spectrum48k

I left my main job (engineering) and started up my own little IT operation recently. Websites, Intranets, Hardware, Software. I'm on course to make MUCH more money than I ever could in engineering!

Wmscooby

iTrader: (24)

Need a enthusiastic employee? lol

bob269

He does a mean cross stitch

Wmscooby

iTrader: (24)

spectrum48k

I'd love to, but I find myself in a position where I simply don't NEED to employ anyone. I can pick and choose the work and turn my hand to most things. There's plenty of work out there once you've done your courses.

ChefDude

i have a few ideas for software products that, marketed properly would make millions

if you trade islamic bonds, you'll know what a pain in the ar$e kosher compliance is

everyone is also crying out for OTC derivative PnL servers + OTC trade entry too.

any decent VCs around?

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I will second that, currently contracting but they love me so much they have offered me enough to tempt me back to perm.

I am an Ocracle Certified Professional on 8i,9i and 10G, gearing up to do 11g, proficient on SQL Server 2000, getting into 2005 at the mo, I need to know a bit of development, hardware, storage, business, interpersonal skills, presentation skills etc etc.

I went the DBA route as it was offered when I was a developer, that wasnt going anywhere (Lotus Approach FFS), best move I ever made.

You need to immerse yourself in it as the man earlier said, read stuff on the net and practice, if you are planning on going that way nothing you learn is ever wasted, I still learn something every day.

TIP !

Use Wikipedia to learn one computing concept, even if it isnt related every day, know some facts about DEC PDP 11's as every manager seems to have worked on them at some point.

Think commercially, to many IT staff just come in, do a bit and go home, think how it fits in with making money.

Dont surf all day


Now go and download SQL Server or Oracle 10G, build a database, connect to it and report back.

Thunder77

Good advice, can't really add much. I'd rather employ someone self-taught than with just lots of academic qualifications. Real world experience counts.

GaryK

One thing I would add is try and actually 'deliver' something for someone.

Over the years people have asked me about getting in to programming or learning a new language. What has happened is without exception is if you just try and learn it and 'mess' around you get frustrated and lose focus.

However, if you know anyone that runs their own business, ask friends, family etc. If there is any software they need to help run their biz and you offer to do it for free. That then gives you a focus and the fact you actually have to deliver something puts a little pressure on you. More importantly it gives you real world experience and a great testimonial/reference.

Gary

spectrum48k

I'd agree with this. You'd be amazed how many businesses out there have no clue about IT and are struggling with manual systems. I've also been appalled at how inept some IT support companies are too!

Get the first job spot-on and you'll be amazed how quick the word spreads about you. I now write software for one of the world's biggest engineering companies - who contacted ME purely from seeing some of my work. You'd normally think a multi-billion dollar company wouldn't bother with small support companies, but they do!