555-Shaggy

Ok, here's the background... I'm trying to build a small website for myself - basically one that looks like a small business.

I want the site to have all the usual basic info (company background / services etc), plus the ability to have one or more photo galleries that are easily updated without having to create new pages manually if I want to add / change photos.

I would also like to have an area where clients can log in and they can see their own specific photos without seeing other clients photos and no access to these for the general public.

At some point, I'd also like to add on the ability to take payments on line, although this is not necessary from the outset.

I guess there are options out there already that I can download and just 'plug in' with a bit of config work - but what is good and recommended and what should I be steering clear of.

I know there are a probably millions of people who can do this quickly and easily but I have no budget and like a challenge.. I am a software developer by trade (although mainframe not web) and I kind of think that it's just another language / technology to learn and I do have a general interest and brain for this kind of thing.

Where I need help is:

Are there advantages coding it all manually or using dreamweaver - which I have access to?

What should I be using for layouts etc? frames? tables? anything else?

Are things like the headers on webpages coded in every single page or they are only coded once and re-used? how does this work?

What technology do I need to use to get the above up and running? PHP? MySQL?

Any suggestion to help me get this up and running would be greatly appreciated - I know there are a number of good developers on here, I just need an insight to get me started and then I can ask specifics when I come across problems later.

Sorry for rambling on, but I hope it gives an idea of what I'm after.

Thanks in advance, looking forward to getting this going.

bob269

I'm no expert (those guy's will be along shortly) but i have designed a commercially used site, anyways, the main layout design is only done once and stored as a template, this is then used as the basis for all new webpages and changes to this reflect through the entire website.

I was told to avoid frames, tables i found to be an easy way (in dreamweaver) to get the page looking how i wanted it, however i've no coding experience whatsoever, the experts on here will probably steer clear of tables.

Markus

advantage of coding it manually is you have complete and total control of what happens, plus you'll learn how things work as well. Dreamweaver is a great app, and you can edit the raw HTML with it if you want.

I think most people you suggest that frames and tables are big no-no's these days and CSS is the way to go.

When it comes to headers, do you mean something like a header logo that is displayed on all pages? If so then yes, you could have essentially duplicate code in all pages to display the logo, or you could have a file containing the information and use the php include command to include that single file into other pages. This would mean if you wanted to change the logo on all pages, you'd only need to make a single edit to the source file. This does of course mean that your server has to support PHP, thus there is your requirement for PHP being needed.

As for photos, well, you could look at the Gallery 2 software. It does require PHP, but only version 2 requires mySQL, but you're probably better off going for v2 anyway.
mySQL is handy for other things and I'd have thought an online sale type thing might need a database behind it and it'd probably be SQL based.

To be honest, I'd have a host that supports PHP and mySQL and not need to use it, than to need it and find the host does not support it.

I'm not sure if this will help any, but when doing a recent bit of site updating I used the following things; Nifty Corners Cube, which allows a nice way to have rounded corners on CSS boxes, it also allows you to mix and match things too.

Lightbox 2 is a great little photo display script. I'm not sure wether it'd be needed if you use Gallery as that may do something similar, but it is rather nice all the same.

The last thing I used was FreeStyle Menus a rather nice JS and CSS based menu system. I've used Angus' popup menu system for a long time and this is an update/replacement to that and is rather nice.

One other thing you might want to think about is using a content management system (CMS) for the website. I know, it sounds rather odd, but there are advantages in that some of the add ons you want can be integrated easily. I setup a website for our sailing club using Joomla, as that is what the chaps wanted, and it seems to be working well. There is the ability to have users and groups, thus you can have some basic access restriction in place.

Geezer

Well, if you are a mainframe developer, depending on how old you are, you will have used Script in ISPF, in the days before word processors and PCs. If so, HTML will be a doddle and you'll be well placed to code it all manually, which is better anyway.

Geezer (old mainframe bod )

555-Shaggy

Ok, off to google to look up CSS layouts and do some reading.

What I mean is a header logo - like the Scoobynet banner and ScoobyLive ads at the top of all the pages on here. Being a developer, I can see there is a 'proper' way to do this and that will be the way forwards - only code once and re-use.

I've just seen on a quick search that I can code the menus once and include the file using PHP. Can these still be layed out and formatted using CSS?

Thanks for those, I'll have a good later when I get a chance, had a quick look and they look good and might be most useful.

Joomla eh? How does that work then, this CMS idea is all new to me. Do you need specific hosts to install Joomla or will any old host be ok? Any more info on this idea - how easy / manageable / updatable?

Are there any hosts out there that are free with MySQL for the time being? I don't mind paying for a good supported host once this is all up and running, but for the time being I'm trying to get this together in my spare time which is at a premium at the moment and just need somewhere to have a play and make a start.

Thanks for all your help so far - been most useful.

RichB

I would look for an off the shelf free, php or asp gallery framework and add your static pages around the outside.
With no web programming experience I wouldn't bother (unless you want to), there are plenty of people who have already built these galleries so why waste your time...


CSS - Yes
Tables and frames are bad practice, wont do you any search engine favours either...

I've seen gallery before and it was ok, i just wrote something basic for one of my clients, basically, they drop a file in a folder and it works, no databases.....

RichB

Also, find a site you like or works well, validate it using www.w3g.org HTML and CSS tools and if it validates, view the source to try and work out how it's built, it was the best way to learn for me...

555-Shaggy

Anyone any opinions / ideas about the Joomla suggestion?

Markus

Yes they can. I've got the following line in a php file:

This basically says, go look at the root of the webspace for a folder called includes, then load the contents of the file kallymenu.php. This file contains the structure for the menu used on the site and it's basically just an unordered list ( < UL > html code)

There is also another similar line which loads a style info file, that file has javascript plus links to the actual CSS files I use for the site.

The result is that when the page with the include line is loaded, the code from the other pages is also loaded into that page.

Ok, Joomla, get over to here and have a look at it, or you could pop over to TS&CC to see the sailing club site I mentioned.
The link to the joomla site will tell you what is needed, but basically it's PHP and mySQL.
When it comes to management and creation of things, well, it's all web based, so you can edit things via the web, plus as it's a management system, you can specify users and what rights they have, so you can define that a specific user can only publish content to a specific area, for example, their area.

For free hosts, if you don't have a spare machine that you could setup as a webserver, which is what I do, then you could have a look at x10 Hosting. I used it when prototyping the aforementioned sailing site. They seemed to offer pretty good service for it being free. It certainly offers mysql and php, plus, and this will be handy if you want to install things, there is a control panel type environment that includes Fantastico Deluxe, which allows you to add in other packages, one of which should be Joomla, and possibly even other things such as ecommerce and photo gallery software.

555-Shaggy

Right, I'm going to look at building me a web server over the weekend from some old PC I've got lying around at my mum's place. Then I can try out Joomla and have good play with databases and see what I can come up with.

Thanks for you help so far...

Markus

No problem at all. Things you'd probably want to download will be:

Apache 2 (webserver)
PERL
PHP
mySQL
phpmyadmin (mySQL database admin app, v handy)
webmin (browser based admin, allows control and config of many things, apache and mysql included)

Once you have it running accessing 127.0.0.1 via a browser will allow you to "see" the website.

You can then download and install Joomla and whatever else you want.

Part of me wants to suggest that instead of going with a windows based OS for this server, that you go with a unix based one, but then I'm somewhat biased as I use OS X which has a unix core.

RichB

MAMP for Mac is excellent for what you are doing...
(if you had a Mac )

555-Shaggy

Cheers guys this is all good stuff and omst useful.

Built myself a webserver over the weekend wih the following:

Apache 2 (webserver)
PERL
PHP
mySQL
phpmyadmin (mySQL database admin app, v handy)

It's working a treat - just knocked up a quick page including a PHP include and everything is displaying as I'd expect.

Just need to have a look at webmin later.

I've downloaded the gallery software as mentioned above and also coppermine, I'm going to have a look at the options and then decide which way to go.. plus going to install Joomla and have a play maybe over the next couple of days..

Thanks again.