scoobyster

Still running my steam powered Win95A Pentium 133MHz, 80MB RAM, 2GB + 6.4GB HDDs, which usually runs fine and pretty reliably, until recently. Everything is still ok apart from Word Processing applications and only Word Processing applications! Have tried Wordperfect 7, 9, 10, Word 97 and 2000 and it's all the same, takes an age for it to do anything useful! The only thing usable is Wordpad.
What could be wrong? The only thing I can think of that has changed regarding the PC is I changed the BIOS setup to use 2MB () of RAM for the onboard GFX rather than the original 1MB (even more !!). I'll go and change that back in a minute to see if it solves anything, but I can't think why it would matter.
A quick fix would be great as I need to do my Physics coursework!

Sheepsplitter

Is your hard drive full or very nearly full? If so you might be experiencing a swap thrashing scenario. Just a wild guess, but I've had this problem before.

Jeff Wiltshire

Chance are that its a problem with either hard disk space or the disk could be heavily fragemented.


Jeff

scoobyster

Thanks for the replies.
There's about 300MB free on the C:\, and similar amounts on each partition of the 2nd HDD.
The fragmentation problem sounds possible though, that's something I'd forgotten, the Windows Defragmenter has refused to do it's job for quite a while. It says to run thorough ScanDisk, but does the same after I've done that. I'll try it again later and paste the exact error message.

DazV

You need to put more coal in her guv'

The Pentium 133 didn't run off an electric supply, as electricty wasn't around then - look carefully on the back and you'll see a coal furnace amongst the expansion slots. Just shove a few more lumps in there to get the performance back up.

scoobyster

DazV - It's a classic! I don't even have to pay road-tax

I tried defragmenting, it said it was 6% fragmented, got to 10% of defragging and said:

"Windows cannot defragment this drive because it contains errors that must first be repaired. Click Help, carry out the instructions for repairing the errors, and then try defragmenting the drive again.
ID No: DEFRAG004 <Help> <OK>"

I ran the thorough ScanDisk as it said, but the same happened again when defragmenting, except the error ID No: was DEFRAG006

Any techies have the answer now?!

Ben

Sheepsplitter

I'd not expect 6% fragementation to cause such severe problems to be honest. Although it does seem you have a general file system problem that cannot be fixed by Scandisk. This problem may actually point to a more sever issue with the drive, and that might be causing long timeouts between data transfers.
You could go for a re-install (after backups of course) and re-format the hard disk, that might fix things, or at least help further identify the problem. I'd stab a guess that if you try to format the disk it will fail format as well. Sounds possibly like you have a primary disk dying on you, in which case best get shot of it and stick a new one in ASAP, or at least take a backup of anything you don't want to loose.
The only time I've ever had problems with Scandisk being unable to complete it has been an indication of a severe disk problem that days later has gone pop.

Silent Monkey

Did scandisk find any errors? What were they? You may need to turn off the "automatically fix errors" to see them. If you turn on the show details in defrag does it show any bad sectors?

You could try coming up to a command prompt and running scandisk from there.

If you have another disk clone your existing drive onto it (use xcopy with appropriate switches if you don't have Ghost or anything similar)

Agree that 6% fragmentation is unlikely to be the actual cause of your problem.

DazV

Yep, sounds like there's a major fault on the hard-disk in which case you want to pop to a computer fair and pick up another matching one, cos the ones in the shops like PC World are too big in capacity to be recognised by your antique, er...computer.

Start backing stuff up in a frantic but controlled manner NOW.

You could always buy a new basic computer (no screen) for £299 from here: www.novatech.co.uk

-DV


[Edited by DazV - 3/27/2002 12:10:13 AM]

scoobyster

Thanks for the replys guys, though they wern't what I wanted to hear!
Scandisk hasn't found any errors, except a few lost file fragments.
Ran Defrag again but with show details on, it doesn't actually get as far as defragmenting, it 'Checks the disk for errors' ok, but gets stuck while it's 'Reading drive information'. Again at 10% on the slider and with Error ID No. DEFRAG006.
If the drive was on its way out would everything else be running ok? The net and image editting seem ok.
I've not been able to Scandisk for quite some time, possibly as much as a year, would it have died by now if it was going to?
I have noticed that over a similar time period the machine has seemed generally slower (if possible ), but that might be me adjusting to faster machines I now use pretty regularly.
I should be buying a new machine within a few weeks anyway, but want to use the old workhorse at least until then.
Thanks again,
Ben

PS. How do I try running Scandisk from the Command Prompt as Silent Monkey suggested? Is that DOS? Forgive my ignorence, I grew up with Win so the black and white stuff scares me a little!

[Edited by scoobyster - 3/27/2002 7:33:13 PM]

Silent Monkey

As the system is booting it will display "Satrting Windows 95" at this point press the F8 function key, you will get a menu. One of the options is Command Prompt, select that and you will get the user friendly C:\> prompt. type scandisk and press enter.

Lost file fragnments are really an error, particulary if scandisk repairs them and they are back again the next time you run scandisk.

DazV

Soccobyster, to answer your question, if the drive was on its way out, Windows will mark each bad area as unusable and so on until performance drops considerably.

scoobyster

Oh dear, not sounding good!
What should be my plan of action to salvage the drive then? Should I try formatting? Will have a go at the command prompt scandisk now.
Thanks for your ongoing help guys.

scoobyster

Ran the Scandisk from command prompt, everything's ok it said.
Am tempted to format now and see what happens, would be nice to get rid of some of the junk on the HDD!
A friend suggested it might be a problem with the fonts being corrupted.
Sound possible?
Cheers,
Ben

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

defrag might not be able to run properly due to the lack of space u have... win95 requires at least a gig of space to work properly really, so either clean up then rerun defrag or format it

boomer

scoobyster,

Regarding the DEFRAG006 error, TechNet comes up with...


PSS ID Number: Q160043
Article last modified on 12-16-2000

WINDOWS:95; Win2000:95




================================================== ====================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this article applies to:

- Microsoft Windows 95
- Microsoft Plus! for Windows 95
- Microsoft Windows 98
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SYMPTOMS
========

When you run Disk Defragmenter (Defrag.exe), you may receive the following error
message:

Error Defragmenting Drive <drive>. Windows could not access part of the
drive. Click Help and carry out the instructions for running ScanDisk.
IMPORTANT: To fix this problem, you must run ScanDisk and choose the Thorough
option.
ID No: DEFRAG005

Note that the "ID No: DEFRAG005" portion of the error message may be replaced by
"ID No: DEFRAG006."

CAUSE
=====

This error occurs when Disk Defragmenter is unable to read from or write to one
or more bad sectors on the hard disk. The DEFRAG005 error message is displayed
when Disk Defragmenter is unable to write to a sector. The DEFRAG006 error
message is displayed when Disk Defragmenter is unable to read from a sector.

RESOLUTION
==========

Before you attempt to work around this problem, you should first make a backup
copy of any important data on your hard disk. After doing so, run ScanDisk
(Scandskw.exe) and perform a thorough test on the hard disk. To do so, follow
these steps:

1. Click the Start button, point to Programs, point to Accessories, point to
System Tools, and then click ScanDisk.

2. Click the hard disk referenced in the error message, and then click Thorough
in the Type Of Test area.

3. Click Options, verify that System And Data Areas is selected, and then click
OK.

4. Click Start to begin the test.

If ScanDisk does not find any bad sectors, or if running ScanDisk does not
correct the problem, configure ScanDisk to detect disk timeouts and check each
cluster five times while performing a surface scan. To do so, follow these
steps:

1. Use any text editor (such as Notepad) to open the Scandisk.ini file in the
Windows\Command folder.

2. Create an [Environment] section in the file, if the section does not already
exist, and then add the following lines to the section:

" ScanTimeOut=On
NumPasses=5 " (without the quotation marks)

Note that the "ScanTimeOut=" and "NumPasses=" lines may already exist, but
with different values.

3. Save and then close the Scandisk.ini file.

4. Click the Start button, click Shut Down, click "Restart the computer in
MS-DOS mode," and then click Yes.

5. Type the following line and then press ENTER to run ScanDisk

" scandisk <drive>: " (without the quotation marks)

where <drive> is the drive letter of the hard disk you want to check.
Note that you should run a surface scan when ScanDisk prompts you to do so,
repair any errors that ScanDisk finds, and view and save the log file that
ScanDisk creates.

6. When ScanDisk is finished, type "exit" (without the quotation marks) and then
press ENTER to return to Windows 95.

7. Run Disk Defragmenter again.

If you still receive the above error message, run Disk Defragmenter to
consolidate free space only, then defragment files only, and then perform a full
defragmentation (both files and free space). To do this, follow these steps:

1. Click Start, point to Programs, point to Accessories, point to System Tools,
and then click Disk Defragmenter.

2. Click the hard disk referenced in the error message, and then click OK.

3. Click Advanced, click Consolidate Free Space Only, and then click OK.

4. Click No when you are prompted to quit Disk Defragmenter.

5. Click the hard disk referenced in the error message, and then click OK.

6. Click Advanced, click Defragment Files Only, and then click OK.

7. Click No when you are prompted to quit Disk Defragmenter.

8. Click the hard disk referenced in the error message, and then click OK.

9. Click Advanced, click "Full defragmentation (both files and free space)", and
then click OK.

10. Click Yes when you are prompted to exit Disk Defragmenter.

If ScanDisk does not find any bad sectors, or if running ScanDisk does not
correct the problem, contact the manufacturer of your computer or hard disk to
inquire about additional workarounds that may correct the problem.

MORE INFORMATION
================

Many hard disks have sectors that are unusable. If the sectors have been marked
as bad by ScanDisk or another disk tool, Disk Defragmenter displays the sector
as a white box with a red line through it. This indicates that the cluster has
been marked as bad and cannot be used to store data.

If the disk tool you use is unable to detect bad sectors on your hard disk, or if
you do not run a disk tool on a regular basis, unusable sectors that are not
marked as bad may exist on the disk. When this occurs, you may not realize that
the bad sectors exist until Windows 95 attempts to store data in them.
Therefore, it is possible for bad sectors to appear while you are using the
drive normally. If bad sectors begin to appear on a regular basis, your hard
disk may need to be repaired or replaced.

Note that you may be able to prevent the error message from being displayed by
deleting some files on your hard disk, but doing so does not fix the problem
that is causing the error message to appear. Disk Defragmenter does not read
from unused sectors while defragmenting a drive. Therefore, if an unusable
sector that does not contain any data exists on your hard disk, the problem
described in this article may not occur.

Additional query words: osr1 osr2

================================================== ====================
Keywords : kbenv kberrmsg kbtool scandisk win95 defrag
Technology : kbWin95search kbWin98search kbGamesSearch kbPlusSearch kbWin95 kbWin98 kbPlus95
Version : WINDOWS:95; Win2000:95
================================================== ===========================
Copyright Microsoft Corporation 2000.


Good luck,

mb

[Edited because quoting removes CR/LFs]

[Edited by boomer - 3/28/2002 6:35:56 PM]

scoobyster

Cleaned up the C: a fair bit but didn't help with the defragging or the Word problems.
Followed boomer's instructions (thanks for going to all that trouble mate ) and have now successfully defragmented, but, still no help regarding the word processing apps!

A couple of things I've remembered that could (ok it's not likely) be relevant:
My CMOS battery is very nearly dead, looses a lot of time when it's switched off.
And my CPU could be cooked because I was accidentally running it with a broken fan (big heatsink though) for quite some time, but that was a while back, and everything but word processing apps are ok.
Any further ideas would be appreciated as I'm at a loss now!
Cheers,
Ben.

scoobyster

Oh and Scandisk now says everything is ok, no lost file fragments, and Defrag doesnt show any bad sectors.

Comedy_Gaz

Aight there Ben.

You need more power dude. Word needs at least 64mb to run. So, to get it running well you (obviously) more. It used to run quite well on my 450 P3 with 96ram, but not as well as it does now on my Athlon XP You also need a CPU worth a crap.
Try closing everything down in the background, may do something.
Also, have a look at Windows Update - there might be some things there that will give your system some zip.
If not, try a typewriter dude.

/mumbles something about corupt fonts...

scoobyster

Hi Gaz.
I have 80MB of RAM so that should be enough to run Word 2000 surely. I only installed that to see if it was my Wordperfect installs that were somehow corrupt. WP 7 and 9 had been running fine for years on the system, even when it had 32MB of RAM. This is a recent problem.
Mumble louder about fonts.

Ben

Comedy_Gaz

Ok, check how much resources you've got free. (rightclick my computer, properties, performance) ... if below 60% even after a fresh reboot, you've got something else hogging your PC. Best guess would be Windows 95.
How many fonts do you actually have?? Win95 loads all fonts in memory, whereas Win98 and further leave them on the drive, loading them when they are needed.