Riots in Wales
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Heard on the radio that there have been running battles in the streets. Said it was locals and immigrants ?. One Lady that was interviewed said these people are getting treated better than the People of Wales. What I would say is that with the border controls we have any one can come here, for good or bad. The first rule of Goverment is to protect its citizens, and they tell us a Terrorist attack -WILL- happen. So I say this Goverment has failed the people of this Country and put its population in danger. Mr B liar should go now and let someone in who has the ***** No More. Before we see more of what started my Rant.
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Terrorists don't necessarily have anything to do with asylum seekers.
From the reports I've read the country would be better off without the rioters than those they were attacking.
[Edited by NACRO - 6/26/2003 1:34:01 PM]
From the reports I've read the country would be better off without the rioters than those they were attacking.
[Edited by NACRO - 6/26/2003 1:34:01 PM]
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NACRO
I do not dissagree with what you have put but this is the flip side to it
I think the government have a lot to answer for, it appears a lot of these immigrants, economic migrants, assylum seakers, whatever you want to call them arrive without any paperwork whatsoever. No-one knows who or what they are. This is bound to cause fear within the community they are put into, especially as there are warnings of impending problems with terrorism.
As for better treatment then i believe they are getting better treatment in some cases, again govenrment at fault for letting this be the case, if the 'locals' where getting the same benefits the this would not be an issue would it.
example for you
I have a friend who lost his job 12 months ago, he has a wife and 18 month old kid and own's his own home.
He like me works freelance, his work dried up about 3 months ago. he is 2 months behind with his mortgage and in court this week for non payment of council tax and in trouble financially.
The only benefit he can claim is for Council Tax benefit and chlid allowance
He cannot claim for housing because he has a mortgage, not rented so no entitlement for the first 38 weeks.
He is self employed although has no work and cannot claim job seakers allowance unless he gives up being freelance and just takes the first job he is given even if it is not enough to live on and it will prevent him from taking other work in his field. and digging himself out of the hole he is in
His partner gave up work after they had the baby, she is looking for a part time job as she cannot afford full time as the nursery fees are just too high so she is going to have to rely on family to help out with babysitting. She cannot get any benefits unless it is job seaker allowance but someone needs to lok after the kid
He and his partner have paid £ 20K+ in Tax per and NI per annum for the last 10 years alone. He has been employed since he left school in '84 and she has since '88. They have always paid their way.
They get nothing back or in the way of support when they need it most.
He was told by someone 'in the know' that the best thing he could do was to leave his wife so she could then try to claim for housing benefit or a council house - How fair is that???
I am sure this is not an isolated case, no wonder it makes people blood boil when it seems others can come into the UK from abroad and are getting houses, benefits, clothing allowances even driving lessons. He and many others have paid in all their working lives and now when they need a bit of help the very system that is supposed to be there to help is not interested. Imagine this is you and yours - you tell me how it would make you feel.
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 6/25/2003 12:05:56 PM]
I do not dissagree with what you have put but this is the flip side to it
I think the government have a lot to answer for, it appears a lot of these immigrants, economic migrants, assylum seakers, whatever you want to call them arrive without any paperwork whatsoever. No-one knows who or what they are. This is bound to cause fear within the community they are put into, especially as there are warnings of impending problems with terrorism.
As for better treatment then i believe they are getting better treatment in some cases, again govenrment at fault for letting this be the case, if the 'locals' where getting the same benefits the this would not be an issue would it.
example for you
I have a friend who lost his job 12 months ago, he has a wife and 18 month old kid and own's his own home.
He like me works freelance, his work dried up about 3 months ago. he is 2 months behind with his mortgage and in court this week for non payment of council tax and in trouble financially.
The only benefit he can claim is for Council Tax benefit and chlid allowance
He cannot claim for housing because he has a mortgage, not rented so no entitlement for the first 38 weeks.
He is self employed although has no work and cannot claim job seakers allowance unless he gives up being freelance and just takes the first job he is given even if it is not enough to live on and it will prevent him from taking other work in his field. and digging himself out of the hole he is in
His partner gave up work after they had the baby, she is looking for a part time job as she cannot afford full time as the nursery fees are just too high so she is going to have to rely on family to help out with babysitting. She cannot get any benefits unless it is job seaker allowance but someone needs to lok after the kid
He and his partner have paid £ 20K+ in Tax per and NI per annum for the last 10 years alone. He has been employed since he left school in '84 and she has since '88. They have always paid their way.
They get nothing back or in the way of support when they need it most.
He was told by someone 'in the know' that the best thing he could do was to leave his wife so she could then try to claim for housing benefit or a council house - How fair is that???
I am sure this is not an isolated case, no wonder it makes people blood boil when it seems others can come into the UK from abroad and are getting houses, benefits, clothing allowances even driving lessons. He and many others have paid in all their working lives and now when they need a bit of help the very system that is supposed to be there to help is not interested. Imagine this is you and yours - you tell me how it would make you feel.
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 6/25/2003 12:05:56 PM]
#7
That is an upsetting thing to read Paul, I agree entirely with your sentiments. Law abiding tax payers seem to be the last people to get any consideration in this country now. It is impossible to understand the mindset of those who administer all this nonsense.
I hope your friend's luck turns the right way for him,he deserves it.
Les
I hope your friend's luck turns the right way for him,he deserves it.
Les
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I quite agree with Paul. These people are supposed to be asylum seekers, yet they have the cheek to complain at where they are "housed". Doesn't matter to them that there are residents of the countries in which they're invading who are entitled to such benefits first!
I read that some complained that their situation here is worse than what they left.
Simple answer: Go home!
I read that some complained that their situation here is worse than what they left.
Simple answer: Go home!
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duck ponds post
--------------
Simple answer: Go home!
----------------
just imagine if u were a asylum seeker and if your family were thrown in a rott ridden home with ******* neighbours i dont think u will stop complaining would u
--------------
Simple answer: Go home!
----------------
just imagine if u were a asylum seeker and if your family were thrown in a rott ridden home with ******* neighbours i dont think u will stop complaining would u
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AFAIC its too late to do much anyway.
All those illegal immigrants here now are going to be raising thier families soon if they havent already, so its going to be a second generation problem by the time this or any other government gets round to doing anything meaningful.
Are the people on here with the 'extreme' right then going to be chanting 'go back home' to this second generation who were born here I wonder?
All those illegal immigrants here now are going to be raising thier families soon if they havent already, so its going to be a second generation problem by the time this or any other government gets round to doing anything meaningful.
Are the people on here with the 'extreme' right then going to be chanting 'go back home' to this second generation who were born here I wonder?
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Moses: I'm not an asylum seeker. I live in my own country. I seem to recall when we were threatened as a country we stood firm and stayed at home, not abandoned ship to head to any country with free handouts.
If they are asylum seekers, they should be grateful that we allow them to stay here, not complain because they think they deserve better.
If you think I am being unfair, just look at the way the brave people who fought to keep this country a safe-haven are now being treated by it. Pensioners seem to be second in line behind these people. It's a joke.
If they are asylum seekers, they should be grateful that we allow them to stay here, not complain because they think they deserve better.
If you think I am being unfair, just look at the way the brave people who fought to keep this country a safe-haven are now being treated by it. Pensioners seem to be second in line behind these people. It's a joke.
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Before the 'race card' gets played as an way of saying anyone who dissagrees with letting all comers into the UK here goes.
Quote
"just imagine if u were a asylum seeker and if your family were thrown in a rott ridden home with ******* neighbours i dont think u will stop complaining would u"
---------------------------------------------
Moses
IMHO The problem is bigger/wider than that, i would be great if we had good quality housing for everyone, decent schools, no overcrowding, decent healthcare, no shortages of nurses or funds/rescourses, good Policing, enough jobs, decent pensions and a benefit system that benefits people - the list goes on.
Reality is we do not and will not. We are an island with limited rescources, we cannot look after the numbers of people that are already here, thats not being racist, that being realistic.
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 6/25/2003 3:42:56 PM]
Quote
"just imagine if u were a asylum seeker and if your family were thrown in a rott ridden home with ******* neighbours i dont think u will stop complaining would u"
---------------------------------------------
Moses
IMHO The problem is bigger/wider than that, i would be great if we had good quality housing for everyone, decent schools, no overcrowding, decent healthcare, no shortages of nurses or funds/rescourses, good Policing, enough jobs, decent pensions and a benefit system that benefits people - the list goes on.
Reality is we do not and will not. We are an island with limited rescources, we cannot look after the numbers of people that are already here, thats not being racist, that being realistic.
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 6/25/2003 3:42:56 PM]
#14
can the government put a number on how many will be let in?
No
its a non-stop train to future chaos
End of day half the cultures coming in are a world apart from our culture and dont integrate so how the hell this is for the good of the country i will never know.
What do i have in common with an Iraqi kurd?
[Edited by wrxstiman - 6/25/2003 5:10:29 PM]
No
its a non-stop train to future chaos
End of day half the cultures coming in are a world apart from our culture and dont integrate so how the hell this is for the good of the country i will never know.
What do i have in common with an Iraqi kurd?
[Edited by wrxstiman - 6/25/2003 5:10:29 PM]
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not all asylum seekers turboman
and paul i used to respect u but when months ago when guys like ben p the **** and loads of others made racist comments against muslims etc etc and asylum seekers and refugees , mods like yourself kept quiet, i have nothing else to say to u
and duck pond nice point i do understand mate but the words u say some people will take that excuse to kill a refugee
and paul i used to respect u but when months ago when guys like ben p the **** and loads of others made racist comments against muslims etc etc and asylum seekers and refugees , mods like yourself kept quiet, i have nothing else to say to u
and duck pond nice point i do understand mate but the words u say some people will take that excuse to kill a refugee
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Moses
It's up to you who you like or not. I object to your comments about keeping quiet, it is not a race thing I have Muslim friends as well as friends from most ethnic and religious backgrounds, I judge people as I find them, not on colour or religion.
As for keeping quiet about comments I assume you mean not editing, deleting posts or such, unless they where posted in forums I mod then I can do nothing about them except RTM or note them in mods forums which I assure you I do, I hate racism it sucks and serves to cause more problems than it solves (if indeed it solves any. People are people; we are all human beings and deserve to be treated like such. As a moderator you are buggered if you edit stuff and buggered if you do not but on behalf of the other mods I guarantee that nothing was left in because the mods are in any way racist or looking to cause grief, we spend a lot of time trying to sort out potentially inflammatory posts and deciding what to and not to keep, whatever you do it offends or upsets someone, we rely on the community to RTM stuff, this helps no-end and can highlight a potential problem.
You will note that none of what I have put above is in any way intended as racism, some of my older posts may seem a bit ott to some but racist is one thing I am not, I have referred in some posts to Somali's or such but if that is where they are from then why should I not do so? Is the world to PC to mention nationality or would some folks have you believe this so you keep quiet, put your head down and say nothing?
If anything I have put encourages racism then I am the first to apologise. If you thought I was deliberately keeping quiet then you are wrong!
Just read wrxstimans comment about what do we have in common……….. and agree with NACRO 100% our humanity!
Unlike some on here I do not generally enter into slanging matches with other on here and will not do so for a few reasons.
Moses if you think me a racist then I suggest you open your eyes and your mind - I am far from it.
As for the BNP a am glad they are around, they help remind us of what the ***** wanted to do 50 or so years ago and even if you dress it up you still see through the thin veneer which belies a sinister world.
Racism sucks as much as those who choose to play the race card as soon as they see something they do not like and want it stopped. I would rather it get out in the open and get debated as long as it is not offensive, better constructive.
You mention Asylum seekers but quickly pass over economic migrants for instance, you seem to just pick the bit you want to and ignore the rest , in some posts I have mentioned both and put sensible reasons for cutting or even stopping immigration. I believe they are reasonable, have you read my posts above or do you choose to gloss over what you want and read the bits that you want to. I read and look at both sides. Human rights work both ways for the indigenous population as well as those trying to enter a country.
I will not loose sleep over you not having respect for me, your choice - but I will not be called or be hinted at being a racist or compared to them by you or anyone else.
Regards
Paul
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 6/25/2003 7:14:48 PM]
It's up to you who you like or not. I object to your comments about keeping quiet, it is not a race thing I have Muslim friends as well as friends from most ethnic and religious backgrounds, I judge people as I find them, not on colour or religion.
As for keeping quiet about comments I assume you mean not editing, deleting posts or such, unless they where posted in forums I mod then I can do nothing about them except RTM or note them in mods forums which I assure you I do, I hate racism it sucks and serves to cause more problems than it solves (if indeed it solves any. People are people; we are all human beings and deserve to be treated like such. As a moderator you are buggered if you edit stuff and buggered if you do not but on behalf of the other mods I guarantee that nothing was left in because the mods are in any way racist or looking to cause grief, we spend a lot of time trying to sort out potentially inflammatory posts and deciding what to and not to keep, whatever you do it offends or upsets someone, we rely on the community to RTM stuff, this helps no-end and can highlight a potential problem.
You will note that none of what I have put above is in any way intended as racism, some of my older posts may seem a bit ott to some but racist is one thing I am not, I have referred in some posts to Somali's or such but if that is where they are from then why should I not do so? Is the world to PC to mention nationality or would some folks have you believe this so you keep quiet, put your head down and say nothing?
If anything I have put encourages racism then I am the first to apologise. If you thought I was deliberately keeping quiet then you are wrong!
Just read wrxstimans comment about what do we have in common……….. and agree with NACRO 100% our humanity!
Unlike some on here I do not generally enter into slanging matches with other on here and will not do so for a few reasons.
Moses if you think me a racist then I suggest you open your eyes and your mind - I am far from it.
As for the BNP a am glad they are around, they help remind us of what the ***** wanted to do 50 or so years ago and even if you dress it up you still see through the thin veneer which belies a sinister world.
Racism sucks as much as those who choose to play the race card as soon as they see something they do not like and want it stopped. I would rather it get out in the open and get debated as long as it is not offensive, better constructive.
You mention Asylum seekers but quickly pass over economic migrants for instance, you seem to just pick the bit you want to and ignore the rest , in some posts I have mentioned both and put sensible reasons for cutting or even stopping immigration. I believe they are reasonable, have you read my posts above or do you choose to gloss over what you want and read the bits that you want to. I read and look at both sides. Human rights work both ways for the indigenous population as well as those trying to enter a country.
I will not loose sleep over you not having respect for me, your choice - but I will not be called or be hinted at being a racist or compared to them by you or anyone else.
Regards
Paul
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 6/25/2003 7:14:48 PM]
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Mose
I hope you do not mind me quoting you here, this is taken from your thread on american oppression
Quote
"i hope the soldiers get their **** kicked and sent back and some of the evil ones in body bags"
-------------------------------------------------------
That is totally uncalled for;
You seem to be the one with a huge chip on your shoulder.
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 6/25/2003 7:29:00 PM]
I hope you do not mind me quoting you here, this is taken from your thread on american oppression
Quote
"i hope the soldiers get their **** kicked and sent back and some of the evil ones in body bags"
-------------------------------------------------------
That is totally uncalled for;
You seem to be the one with a huge chip on your shoulder.
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 6/25/2003 7:29:00 PM]
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I seem to recall that a GP in B'ham recently took a stand against refugees by refusing to treat any more. He said that they were rude, often violent and expected the best treatment available, immediately.
This GP himself was Asian. He'd had enough. I can see why too.
So anyone who thinks that this thread is racist, or against the Ethnic Minorities in the UK is basically missing the point, or is insecure in some way.
It's not just the white British people who are fed up of the immigrant situation, it's everyone who has worked and lived here for years.
And if someone chooses to take my words as an excuse to "kill a refugee", then they're beyond help and rational thought anyway, and nothing anyone says to them will calm them down...
I hate broad beans... (maybe some nutter will go and eradicate the entirety of the broad beans crop for ever )
This GP himself was Asian. He'd had enough. I can see why too.
So anyone who thinks that this thread is racist, or against the Ethnic Minorities in the UK is basically missing the point, or is insecure in some way.
It's not just the white British people who are fed up of the immigrant situation, it's everyone who has worked and lived here for years.
And if someone chooses to take my words as an excuse to "kill a refugee", then they're beyond help and rational thought anyway, and nothing anyone says to them will calm them down...
I hate broad beans... (maybe some nutter will go and eradicate the entirety of the broad beans crop for ever )
#21
Its always nice to read a few sensible posts IMO but i must say..Please can we stop using the words 'Asylum Seekers' the majority (80% Gov figures) are economic migrants and personally they DO NOT deserve free handouts from me or any other law abiding tax payer.
I know some are genuine asylum seekers and they should be processed fairly IMO but its been so abused in the last few year,its near impossible to know who are genuine and who are taking the p*ss! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
I know some are genuine asylum seekers and they should be processed fairly IMO but its been so abused in the last few year,its near impossible to know who are genuine and who are taking the p*ss! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
#23
'Quote:"What do i have in common with an Iraqi kurd?"
Your humanity I hope.'
Well if everyone is so humane then why not let each and every asylum seeker into the country.
Dont quote that nonsense. The whole reason the country is up in arms about this issue is lack of humanity. Dont hide behind those words.
Your humanity I hope.'
Well if everyone is so humane then why not let each and every asylum seeker into the country.
Dont quote that nonsense. The whole reason the country is up in arms about this issue is lack of humanity. Dont hide behind those words.
#24
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You asked a question "What do i have in common with an Iraqi kurd?"
My answer was "Your humanity I hope"
That has nothing to do with their asylum applications bogus or otherwise- I was just pointing out that they are human beings just like you and I.
I fail to understand what any of that has to do with your following comments quote: "Well if everyone is so humane then why not let each and every asylum seeker into the country.
Dont quote that nonsense. The whole reason the country is up in arms about this issue is lack of humanity. Dont hide behind those words."
There seems to be an unspoken agenda in your posts and I don't like where it seems to be heading.
For the record I've never said what my opinion is on asylum seekers I just commented on the riots and what wrxstiman said. It seems he's keen to put words into the mouths of others.
Our humanity is the thing that distinguishes us from animals, don't forget that.
My answer was "Your humanity I hope"
That has nothing to do with their asylum applications bogus or otherwise- I was just pointing out that they are human beings just like you and I.
I fail to understand what any of that has to do with your following comments quote: "Well if everyone is so humane then why not let each and every asylum seeker into the country.
Dont quote that nonsense. The whole reason the country is up in arms about this issue is lack of humanity. Dont hide behind those words."
There seems to be an unspoken agenda in your posts and I don't like where it seems to be heading.
For the record I've never said what my opinion is on asylum seekers I just commented on the riots and what wrxstiman said. It seems he's keen to put words into the mouths of others.
Our humanity is the thing that distinguishes us from animals, don't forget that.
#25
here we go
dont start throwing the race card around Nacro
there are no hidden BNP agendas and i resent you insinuating that
you are just as bad as them
just pointing out there is a lot of hypocracy
a lot of NIMBIs who dont practice what they preach
perhaps you are another one???
is everyone racist for saying they are concerned about the asylum crisis? are they inhumane?
grow up mate
dont start throwing the race card around Nacro
there are no hidden BNP agendas and i resent you insinuating that
you are just as bad as them
just pointing out there is a lot of hypocracy
a lot of NIMBIs who dont practice what they preach
perhaps you are another one???
is everyone racist for saying they are concerned about the asylum crisis? are they inhumane?
grow up mate
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I don't know where you got the "race card" idea from, I certainly didn't mention it (in relation to you) and it wasn't what I was trying to get at. Seems odd that you should jump to that conclusion though.
You asked what you had in common with them, I pointed out we are all people. You jumped to all kinds of strange conclusions about what I think, then you start going on about race?
I think you should ask yourself some questions about what your motives truly are.
edited so it makes a bit more sense
[Edited by NACRO - 6/25/2003 10:47:44 PM]
You asked what you had in common with them, I pointed out we are all people. You jumped to all kinds of strange conclusions about what I think, then you start going on about race?
I think you should ask yourself some questions about what your motives truly are.
edited so it makes a bit more sense
[Edited by NACRO - 6/25/2003 10:47:44 PM]
#28
'There seems to be an unspoken agenda in your posts and I don't like where it seems to be heading.'
Please explain Nacro what u mean then coz it seems you are accusing him of being racist. How really sad you are pal!
BTW if you reply i'd like an explanation. LOL
Pops- out on top as usual.
[Edited by Popeye P1 - 6/26/2003 3:58:32 AM]
Please explain Nacro what u mean then coz it seems you are accusing him of being racist. How really sad you are pal!
BTW if you reply i'd like an explanation. LOL
Pops- out on top as usual.
[Edited by Popeye P1 - 6/26/2003 3:58:32 AM]
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'There seems to be an unspoken agenda in your posts and I don't like where it seems to be heading.'
Seems a few people including Popeye are quick to judge others by their own standards. He then goes on to say "How really sad you are pal!" without waiting for me to answer. I suggest this means you are the one who needs to grow up a bit.
The unspoken agenda I was referring to was a situation where we don't allow any asylum seekers into our country, regardless of their race.(remember there are asylum seekers of all creeds and races)
Why the hell do people assume you are referring to racism? Draw your own conclusions why they are seemingly so paranoid on that score.
[Edited by NACRO - 6/26/2003 8:33:43 AM]
Seems a few people including Popeye are quick to judge others by their own standards. He then goes on to say "How really sad you are pal!" without waiting for me to answer. I suggest this means you are the one who needs to grow up a bit.
The unspoken agenda I was referring to was a situation where we don't allow any asylum seekers into our country, regardless of their race.(remember there are asylum seekers of all creeds and races)
Why the hell do people assume you are referring to racism? Draw your own conclusions why they are seemingly so paranoid on that score.
[Edited by NACRO - 6/26/2003 8:33:43 AM]