tiggers

I have one question on this.

I understand all the arguments about the fox being a serious problem to livestock etc. Hence I understand that their population has to be controlled.

What I don't understand is why in France this is done efficiently by a couple of men, one dog and some shotguns whereas in the UK it takes about twenty toffs on horses with a pack of hounds and they quite often come back empty handed.

Could someone please explain becuase I just don't get it.

If the answer is because it's fun then fine - I can accept that, but trying to dress it up as vermin control or tradition seems a bit weak to me.

Please note I am not wishing to stir up a hornet's nest - I just genuinely would like an answer from the country folk amongst us.

Regards,

tiggers.

[Edited by tiggers - 7/2/2003 12:42:54 PM]

Chip

After 7 years of talking about it,3 commons votes and lots of foxy studies will they or even should they ban fox hunting.

If they do ban it then why not fishing as well.

Why did Blair abstain again.

Will they use the parliament act to enforce it.If so what happened to democracy.

Personally I think I dont know enough about the way of the country so Id just leave it be.Also think a lot of people wan it banned as they assume quite wrongly that hunting is only carried out by rich landowners.

So, will Reynard live to see another day.

Chip.

Popeye P1

They want to ban everything nowadays.

Thing is if they ban hunting they'll have to destroy all the working hounds, alot of horses won't be needed anymore and thousands will lose their jobs.

As for Mr Foxy, he'll still be hunted by shotgun or be poisoned or snared. At least the hounds get a quick and clean kill most of the time. The other methods DON'T.

What i don't agree with is them digging the foxes out. If they get away then fair play to them.

Chip

Yeah, I suppose if they shoot the things and dont get a clean shot the poor little fox will just crawl away and die which may take days. Or if he was injured he may be open prey then for buzzards etc. Nasty.

Chip.

Welshman

Yes they will ban it, it's a payback time for the old labour brigade who supported Blair prior to Gulf War 2.
Next will be fishing, closely followed hy horse racing. It's anyone's guess what will be next.
Yet another example of labour involving themselves ever more in the public's right to do what they want to.
Strange how they support some minority groups and ban others.

wm

Chip

Welshman,
Horse racing is also a sport for the mid/upper classes. Apart from the betting I which is mainly carried out by lower income blokes.

While were at it why not ban motor racing as well as surely its encourages people to speed and its just so dangerous.

Chip

unclebuck

Well, I *might* have *some* sympathy for the pro-hunt lobby if they weren't such an inbred bunch of pig ignorant ****wits.

There's been far too much dithering on this. Just do it asap.

UB

pslewis

BAN IT NOW!!!

Ignore the to55ers who will whine and whinge .... they kill their dogs at 4 years old anyway, for NO good reason!! As for the horses they could go on drag hunts - whats wrong with that??????

Bunch of upper crust clowns!! They banned the working mans cruel sports years ago and kept theirs!! The peasants are revolting!!

Oh, yes, overrule all the old farts in the second chamber!! They are too busy sleeping, farting and fiddling with choir boys!!

Pete

Popeye P1

'They are too busy sleeping, farting and fiddling with choir boys!!'

Can't argue with that.

MarkO

Hmmm. I remember the last fox-hunting thread on here. ISTR it ran to over 20 pages, didn't it?

letdown

Hasnt this goverment got better things to worry about? I have nothing against foxes but, how many get killed a year by the hounds?? I ll tell......you not many. The amount of money wasted on this debate is a joke.
Sort all the other rubbish out first !!!
all IMHO of course

beemerboy

good point letdown....

there is plenty of human suffering in this country, without getting all sentimental about some flea ridden vermin.
( i'm talking about foxes, not pslewis, by the way )

BB

Leslie

The one thing worse than snobbery is inverted snobbery. It is the perfect vehicle for distorting the facts. Particularly when it is so ill-informed. Specious insults do nothing to strengthen the argument either.

The fox is a particularly evil predator, it kills not just for food but for the sheer pleasure of killing, so it does not deserve as much sympathy as one might think. Fox hunting is part of life for very many country dwellers and was engendered by the necessity to protect farming stock. Country pursuits are part of life for all persons across the board, no class distinction here! People who live in towns do not understand the requirements of country living and should mind their own business anyway. Its like country dwellers telling townspeople how to run their lives and to close down all the lap dancing clubs and sex shops, and night clubs and casinos, and using drugs etc etc because of the bad effect on people's morals. Or the Roman Sandal brigade telling you how to bring up your children and to let all the criminals out of jail!

Better if the government starts to really do something useful for a change about the big problems such as crime,NHS,pensions going to the wall,the economy which is in imminent danger, transport and our inadequate road system, illegal immigrants, the start of mafia like organisations instead of wasting ours and their time on this bill in order to take attention away from their gross failings so far.

It would be good too if the townies who come out here on holiday to escape the rat race they have built for themselves learned some better manners and did not treat us locals like "untermenschen" who owe them a living.

Les

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Hopefully the will ban rallying next! all those noisey motor cars polluting the air and ruining the ground

RB5320

tiggers - as one of the "country folk", it always makes me cringe when the old "vermin control" argument comes out. Fox hunting is an incredibly inefficient method of control. I cant remember the source, but a couple of years ago there was a hunt which had more riders killed in a year than foxes! If people rely on this argument to support fox hunting it is so easy to counter.
I am against the ban but am sure that sooner or later it will happen. My reasons are more to do with tradition, way of life, rural employment and above all conservation of the countryside - maintenance of bridleways and footpaths, etc.
I dont actively support fox hunting and would not personally go on a hunt, even though I think it should be allowed to continue. I almost went once out of curiosity to see what went on, but decided I would find it very unpleasant and distressing if the hunt was successful. But I do agree strongly with Les that there are far more pressing matters for the government to be adressing, and that the rural economy has been ticking along for centuries, with very little assistance from government so it is hardly surprising that there is considerable resentment at what can be perceived as interfering and blatant vote-rigging at a time when the government needs to distract attention from its inadequacies.

Steve

Brun

Fair's fair - arm the Foxes with automatic guns and let the hunters become the hunted.

SJ_Skyline

Just watch it - the next thing they will ban will be voting!

Leslie

Skyline,they have been working on that for 6 years now!

Les

Adrian F

I also think the point about them protecting minority groups that vote for them but surpressing the groups that don't vote for them is very valid. the money and subsidises they award to various organisations that the government approve of and the amount of our money through legal aid that goes to some people is beyond comprehension and then on the other side Blair feels it neccessary to ban an activity because the majority of Labour supporters don't like it.

As said above Fishing and shooting are next on the list and i give them 10 years.

Also they claim they are representing public opinon well if that is the case they better bring back hanging and give us all a vote on the european constitution then ASAP. but of course it doesn't apply to this.

I don't take part in any of these sports though i did use to fish but i do belive that people have the right to continue them. I also am upset about the thought of 20,000 hounds being destroyed because of this decision maybe the people who voted in the ban would like to rehome them as a sign of good will?

NACRO

I'm pro-choice regarding almost any topic I can think of that doesn't involve harming other human beings. Even though I view their "sport" as organised cruelty I have to say I'm against banning it- we need more freedom not less.

scoobydooooo

i want know how they are going to stop foxes from hunting , surely thats how they eat

PeteT

I'm not really bothered either way (although I did once have a very enjoyable day at the Waterloo Cup) but I do know that if the ban goes through, foxes on many farms throughout the country will be virtually wiped out by shooting, gassing, poisoning,and snaring. At the moment farmers accept foxes on their land because it keeps 'The Hunt' happy (and believe me, you don't want to upset The Hunt), but with hunting banned it will be open season on our furry friends I'm afraid.

IMHO the main reason most anti hunting peeps want it banned is due to a misguided class-war-chip-on-shoulder-scenario rather than any real concerns for animal welfare. If they were that bothered about animal welfare they'd be campaigning for a ban on battery hens who spend there entire (short) lives in a wire box, in continuous twilight,fed on a diet of pellets laced with antibiotics and when they are no longer laying a nice brown egg a day and are discarded, their feet have to be prized from the bottom of the cage because thier claws have grown around the wire.
Now that,s real cruelty.

Rant over.

StiShrek

the anti-hunt go on about animal cruelty yet they dont give a damn about the millions of domesticated pets that live intolerable lives at the hands of cruel b@stards

hypocrites the whole lot of the grungy neds

fox hunting is really the tip of the iceberg as far as animal cruelty is concerned

why these anti-hunt grunges dont petition for tougher animal cruelty laws is beyond me

dsmith

Anyone who is anti-hunt for animal welfare reasons by definition has to be anti-domestic-cat. or do birds and mice have less "feelings" than foxes. The fact they're not highlights the farcical nature of most of the arguments.

It is a civil liberties issue first and foremost. Just because something is done only by a minority does not automatically make it wrong. If hunting is banned, they will move onto the next target.

The parliamentry time already wasted on this non-issue could have been so much better spent

Deano

Billbill

If the Fox Hunting is banned, it will surely be the last time the dogs are killed.
Personally?
I don't like foxes in an urban area or farming area.
They have killed all my "yard birds" several times.
I have chickens running around to keep the bug and hopper population down. In the past those da*m foxes have wiped me out over a period of a couple days.
Then it's MY turn. I go out and shoot any fox that presents itself as a target, cave in all their dens (after inserting a gas bomb) and things are fine for a year or two.

As far as running them with the hounds?
I've never seen it done but if a troop of hounds followed by a bunch of red coated horse mounted ignorant tresspassers went through MY property... well... my mental state COULD deteriorate quite rapidly. (not that it's very good at the best of times)

Hehehe, but then it might be quite a show as there are a couple of Brama Bulls close by that would not take kindly to having THEIR pastures invaded either!

BMW bikes

Fox hunting has bollocks all to do with the countryside just a bunch of town living hooray henrys who consider themselves country folk becuase their parents lives in a small village. Annoying ****** the lot of them. How many excuses to these fools need to meet up get drunk and kill something. Just posh red necks.

south-star

Well said Leslie,why is everyone getting up in arms over the hunting of vermin,which is what the fox is,and secondly it seems people want it banning not because of the action itself,but because of the sort of people that do it.

Leslie

Yes thats right South Star, and it is not really because of the types that go hunting but the types that people erroneously think go hunting. As I said, country pursuits are participated in by the full gamut of people right across the board. There is no class distinction here. It is the likes of Prescott who has demonstrated himself to be the complete inverted snob who keep these kinds of unpleasant and nasty ideas alive.

Les

PeteT

Think you might be being a bit harsh here guys. A fox can only be a fox. It doesen't kill an entire hut full of hens because it 'enjoys it' it does it because that's what it's instincts tell it to do. In effect, it can't help it.

BMW bikes

You can say foxes are evil predators but the fact is so are the people who go hunting. There are two types of people on an hunt the blood lust physcopaths who charge around at the front looking to brutally rip an animal to shreds,andthe social climbers and ugly horse girls who basically mince around at the back and just wander around on a horse and chat all day.
Hunting can still carry on but why not chase a scent instead of an animal. You can harp on all you want about foxes but rats are much more of a problem to farmers so why not hunt them at least a large population of foxes can keep the number of rats and rabbits down.