unclebuck

Well that's a shame. How about the 'inhumane and degrading manner' that the Taliban (of which he was a part) treated women and children? How on earth this mercenary 'warrior' can claim to be 'innocent' is beyond belief, but I'm sure the twisted logic of the human rights brigade will find a way of supporting his stance.

He could go quietly back to his family, but oh no, he wants "the US authorities to answer for the injustice which he has suffered" No mention of the endless suffering and abuse that he and his Taliban compatriots inflicted on innocent Afghan citizens over a period of years. No doubt we will want massive compensation for the 'crimes' that have been committed against him.

I also think this solicitor Robert Lizar, is a disgrace to his profession for representing someone who is for want of a better phrase an Al-Qaeda footsoldier.

If there is any chance at all that this bloke was involved with terrorism surely he should be interned or imprisoned permanently. Al-Qaeda is a long term threat, why should we release the footsoldiers if there is the slightest chance of them reoffending at any point in the future.

This is all very bad news for the future of security in this country IMO.

UB

horror

he will answer mate on the streets!!

you really think that scum is going to be able to walk about a free man? he wont last 5 mins!!

horror

AudiMan

Should have let him get off the plane 30 minutes before it landed ! ie over the Atlantic at 20,000 feet.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

He has been released without charge. I'm sure if there was something to charge him with, then he'd would have been charged, so in this case obviously not, so he is a free man.

In the UK there is a (state) crime of unlawful imprisonment & I'm sure you'd be pretty pi$$ed if you'd been incarcerated for 2 years for no reason.






If this thread is to remain on here as a useful discussion, can we keep racism and xenophobia etc out of this please?

Thanks

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

I dont think this has anything to do with racism or xenophobia, they could be any colour or race, and I still think people would think the same thing.

they have been held for 2 years, they have been questioning them in that time and checking their backgrounds and their stories! they have only just realised them, and even then the british government believe they need to still be further questioned, that to me does not look like innocence. it looks like the americans have realised them to be judged by there peers in this country.

I cant belive that if they had anything to do with sept 11th, they will be allowed to walk the streets. they just would not allow it.

jamo

blair

Why are the US sending him back here - surely they should all have been returned back to afghanistan where they arrested them and turned over to their authorities.

I imagine that the justice they would receive there would be a damn sight tougher than the welcome and publicity they will receive here

Nathan L

This is not about racism or xenophobia.

It wouldn't matter if he was white, black, asian or any other race.

No disrespect but if anyone honestly believes this guy is enitely innocent take your head out the sand.

He just happened to be on holiday there when all this kicked off, yeah right.

Nathan..

wrxtankie

not to mention he will probably be moved to canada with a new identity and free grants from the goverment with a new identity, just like the bulger killers. Plus he was caught in the act with a weapon in harms way of british soldiers. in The U.S thats treason. as it is in our millitary system still punishable by death. They were held as POWs well they said they were fighting a war i dont see a problem. But he should be turfed out like that Hamza bloke who stated hes not british he just likes to claim the bennefits.whilst recruiting for al q and the other lunatics. Once again its proved us as a weak country all touchy feely now now mummy kiss it better, attitude. Which will byte us in the **** soon enough. We dont know exactly what circumstances these people where caught in but they nust at least have been carrying weapons or such for them to be taken as POWs. Possibly wearing insignia or uniform. If not they would have been treated as mercs who have no rights under the geneva convention. Decide youselfs I say death by firing squad. Its what id get if i turned on my own country. Im british dont pay attention to my address

farmer1

Not sure if this is correct but wasn't he an asylum seeker anyway so why is he being let back into this country anyway if he is, know he no longer has to run from threat of his life.

Spoon

Incitement at it's best!

As a moderator you surely have the knack of trying to create a non-existent problem.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Of the 5 returned to the UK, the above character is the ONLY one to get to go home straight away to his folks. The others are being held to answer questions by anti-terrorist branch.

s-man

I would say that more likely PTMW has simply seen enough threads on snet that start out like this to recognise that 90% decend into predictable yet inflamatory bouts of chest beating and thinly velied racism by the usual suspects.

Hopefully not this time, however...

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

As a moderator, one of my roles is to keep threads in line and stop them from becoming a flame war. The 2 immediate posts after UB's were both in a "vigilante" style the one above noting gleefully that this bloke might get hurt "on the streets" the other stating that he should've been dropped out of a plane.

This is obviously going to be a contentious thread, so rather wait for it to (predictably) turn into a war-zone, what with the potential for a nice bit of racism here with then other people coming in and inflaming it more, thought it best, in line with my guidelines, to ask people kindly to think before they post and not to turn this thread into something that needs locking/deleting.

Believe me when I say, from a lot of experience of these things on SN, that when you have a muslim terror suspect released onto the streets of this country, it won't be long before the keyboard ninjas come out with their racist views - on both sides. Crikey, it doesn't even need a muslim terrorist subject matter, anything that has something to do with someone that is not of the same race/colour/religion on this BBS gets them going


If people prefer, I will just lock/delete this thread now and not allow this particular subject discussed in a rational and adult fashion anywhere. However, I personally would prefer to allow the issue debated without recourse to the edit tools, as I'm sure would the majority of people here.

That is all I am asking

Thanks

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

I dont think it has anything to do with racism and for all you know i could be muslim!

they acted in a way that if my own brother had done this I would feel exactly the same way.

they shot at british soldiers! they are british aint they?

jamo

ajm

As far as I am concerned they forfeited their right to be British when they were caught colluding with the enemy.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

I personally don't care what you are, I'm not singling you out but the point I'm trying to get accross is that there are others on here with small minds and who like to hide behind keyboards, who will turn a reasoned debate into a flame war. That is what I want to try and avoid by nipping it in the bud.


FWIW we don't know that they shot at anyone or indeed know any of the facts surrounding these people's arrest. It would suggest to me that the person released had such circumstantial evidence against him, if any at all, that it would not even have stood up in one of the US's "Military Tribunals" If there was stronger evidence such that he was seen holding an AK & popping off at soldiers, then I would also imagine that he'd still be sitting on his island in the sun.

Just because he was arrested by the Americans that doesn't mean he was involved with Taliban/Al Quaeda. Why? Well, the Americans hold the number one World Record for getting things wrong and acting first, thinking later.

Why was he over there? Well, I don't know but I'm sure some paper will buy his story & we'll be informed, but it is not beyond the realms of possibility that he was visiting relatives or any other lawful purpose.

I just hate people jumping on some media/mass band-wagon and pre-judging someone without being in full hold of all the facts.

Dream Weaver

If they were innocent why were they in Afghanistan in the first place? Beach holiday, tourism, I dont think so.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

DW

A large number of the population have relatives in other parts of the world other than the good ol' United Kingdom.

unclebuck

Al-Qaeda training camp? Nah.... couldn't be that, not one of our 'boys'.

The Yanks didn't just select a random group of people in Afghanistan and deport them to their new holiday homes. They were all taken for a reason.

What worries me is that these people, once released, will become martyrs to the anti west muslim community living in the UK and the whole affair will be seen as more evidence of the perceived 'weakness' of the western resolve to resist the Islamic Jehad.

Indeed, to in any way compensate these people would be a total travesty. They should, as others suggest be stripped of all UK citizenship and sent as far away as possible IMO.

UB

RichWalk

Puff- me thinks you are 'flogging a dead horse' here sir. Keep trying you just never know, someone might listen to what you are saying.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Richwalk

You're probably right.

Just glad that hanging is not still legal, 'cos this lot would have me strung up for looking like a murderer & people wonder where racism/bigotry comes from?

ajm

I likes a good public burning!

King RA

Funny how 3 of them live within 400 yards of each other in Manchester then isn't it. What a coincidence that they all ended up in Afghanistan at the same time.

marky1

Puff you seem to have pretty strong views. Can't help but feel it's only because many are disagreeing with you that you feel minded to block it. Oh and reading through it, there doesn't seem to be any racism. Yes vigilante stuff, but no racism

Chip

Why, whenever someone mentions anything to do with ethnic minorities does the word racism have to be used. How about using the word patriotism instead.After all, all most people are doing is defending their rights as a UK citizen.

patriotism [páttri ə tizəm, páytri ə tizəm]
n
national pride: pride in or devotion to the country somebody was born in or is a citizen of

Chip.

DocJock

The Yanks didn't just select a random group of people in Afghanistan and deport them to their new holiday homes. They were all taken for a reason

Is being denounced as a memeber of Al Quaeda a good reason ?

There are many claims of innocent people being 'taken' in Pakistan by local warlords and handed over to US troops as "Al Quaeda members" for financial reward.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Marky1

With respect, please read all my posts on here. I am ultimately concerned that this thread does not degenerate into a slanging match. That & overt racism/xenophobia SHOULD it start to creep its insiduous way onto this thread are the reasons that I will lock/edit/delete if necessary under the moderator guidelines. It was a request that this should not happen that I posted originally.


In the meantime, I am happy to continue to bash my head against a brick wall by hopefully trying to convince some people that just because some bloke has spent the last 2 years in a Cuban holiday camp, doesn't necessarily make him a Taliban/Al Quaeda if there is NO evidence against him.

Whilst I'd probably not advocate execution if he WAS guilty, I'd certainly think that sending him back to Cuba to either serve a sentance was a good idea.

BUT it is the lynch mob mentality of many that really gets me. If there is no proof to say he is in any way guilty, let him go get on with his life. If there is, send him back. Just don't assume that he is guilty just because he was there.



I'm trying to think of a good analogy where people on here would be outraged and upset if for some reason they were arrested on suspicion of something that they definately did not do and then on release are pilloried by the community for having done it.

Jeez, we get enough complaints on SN about people getting stopped by the Police for "apparently" no reason - what about the one the other day where "facist police with nothing better to do" stopped a middle-aged lady for a defective light? At least that woman had committed an offence, but we don't know (at this moment) that the bloke released today has and already he's getting slated. I reckon we should all go round the little middle-aged lady's house and torch her and her car

(that last sentence was by way of example not a vowed intention or incitement btw )



Again, FWIW, I am as patriotic as the next person but part of that is a pride in our country for being fair-minded and with a reasonable judicial system. I quite often think myself lucky to be born here/now and not in some of the other nice places of the world that we read about, Rwanda, Iraq, Haiti and prehaps sometimes that I wasn't born in the Shankill or the Falls. However, my patriotism does not extend to xenophobia or hatred of other races or colours or religions & certainly my patriotism does not extend to vilifying someone who has not been proved or shown to have committed any crime towards this country and who has spent the last 2 years in what is essentially a concentration camp.

Guilty, send him back, Innocent, let him go, but in the meantime do not judge him just because he was in Guantanamo.

unclebuck

Might be interesting. On at a wierd time though.

UB

King RA

That be Taliban talk there boy. Lynch him!!!!

CrisPDuk

During any the two world was if a british national was taken with enemy prisoners he was tried for treason & executed. I believe that the Geneva convention for the treatment of prisoners of war classifies a country's own nationals committing treason as spies & therefore outside the purview of the treaty.

If it is true (personally I wouldn't take the US's word for it) that these people were using arms against United Nations troops then they should indeed be tried as traitors & executed if guilty.

However, if the United States cannot provide evidence to that fact, then these men should be released and allowed to get on with their lives without harassment from the press.