ex-webby

If we do not get a good number of votes to keep this forum it will be removed due to a few members spoiling it for the rest as usual.

The poll will be available for a limited time and then the final decision will be taken.

Regards

Simon

moses

keep it , it will be silly to ditch it , the stuff is just gonna move to non scooby related


we should keep it

me myself know alot of people here and it will be sad to loose a family, even if some of us dont get on but were like a family if u know what i mean, its always the same people who hang around here unlike the other threads

Brit_in_Japan

Simon, I don't think doing away with CWE is the answer. It will just transpose the problem into another forum, Non Scooby Related. And is it really worth killing CWE if there are only a few people who are spoiling it for the rest ? Better to keep CWE and keep all the nutters in one place

I can understand how hacked off you must get having to intercede in these petty bun fights. I must admit that I get really frustrated when a thread decends into personal insults because the persons involved either don't have the wit or wisdom to argue their case properly. They need educating that when someone presents an opposing view then the best counter is to reply with well reasoned arguement (and backed up by facts and references would be nice!). Resorting to personal insults is conceding the arguement, but they don't appear to understand that.

I think it's up to the majority on CWE to help the mods and try and educate the minority by example. If we stamp down on them quicker when the insults start then hopefully we can nip things in the bud before it escalates. What can I say, I'm an optomist....

XT

Simon, i never really was a regular poster here BUT I read many threads and the only thing that springs to my mind everytime i think about it, is religious fanatism. In some threads, I get the impression that the people posting are deaf and yet they expect the rest to listen.
I say keep the forum and rename it to 'West versus East' cos that's the only thing they talk about.


all these IMHO

DocJock

Keep the Forum.

Ditch the troublemakers.

Old_Fart

Ditch it, it could be absorbed on Non Scooby related anyway, damn BBS is already too cluttered as things stand.
Chuck

Suresh

and if that's not possible, ditch the forum and move the whole shooting match to an open version of Fight Club....

SomeDude

I think it's fair to expect that the threads about world events (like now Madrid for example) will flow back to NSR, so by just closing this section, you may not really solve a problem IMHO, you would move the "problem" elsewhere.

You would have more space on the front page mind But that could also be solved by moving CWE as a subforum of NSR if that would be technically possible.

Buckrogers

Keep it! Else problem just moves elsewhere.

andrew6321

Ditching the forum will make absolutely no difference whatsoever. Correct moderating is the answer.

Sbradley

It' been said already but bears repeating. You created this forum because of the volume of traffic that was being generated in NSR by threads that belong here. That hasn't changed.

Personally, I'd like to see better - perhaps slightly stricter but more consistent - moderating of the forum. And yes, I would be prepared to take that responsibility myself.

All CWE needs is for a few (very few, actually) members to wind their necks in and try to post coherent, rational arguments instead of answering everything they don't like with either URLs or abuse. Or sometimes both.

SB

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

This forum was created about a year ago so that Gulf War threads did not swamp NSR. In fact, I seem to recall that it was I that recommended it be created.



Speaking as a moderator of this forum, I find it takes an almost disproportionate amount of my time to moderate CWE than any of the others I am involved in

Part of the problem is that every thread must be looked at more closely because in order to moderate fairly, you have to try to be consistant and also to understand every nuance of the written words contained.

Another part is that other than factual reporting, this forum has the potential to be the most explosive in terms of starting "fights" or flame wars. These often spill across into other forums and detract from members experience of SN who are not interested in CWE.

I agree about some people winding their necks in, but these necks are on spring release and the wrong, prehaps unintentional, word gets them out again. Trolling is the other problem here - people looking to cause trouble "innocently".

I think I've been accused of racism by "all" sides during the time of this forum, of bias and political correctness etc but I trust that in the long run I have been as fair as possible. I certainly am calm in my own mind regarding my decsions and know my own opinions, many of which I keep schtum about, much against my inner feelings of wanting to get stuck in.

I love reasoned and good debate and in an ideal world this would occur all the time in CWE. But the world is not ideal and people will always wish to PUSH their pov at others, sometimes too strongly for another to just listen to, so they shout back.

It is nice to have all the potential flash-points contained in one area, but I also feel that because it is here, people can use it as a soap-box for their personal political views, prehaps being more vociferous than they would else-where. Some of these views are extreme to say the least. Also, people are "braver" when anonymoously sat behind a keyboard and it is easier to write inflamatory BS and when theres a whole forum dedicated to it, it is inevitable what the consequences might be.

I, personally, have voted that CWE should go. I think it has served its purpose (Gulf War now over) and leaving it here detracts from the community by being somewhere that arguments can start. Such arguments when viewed are not a good advertisement for SN.

Prehaps by putting CWE alongside Fight Club and making it subscription only.

I just feel that too much antagonism can come out of this forum and that is not in the community interests.




Saying all the above, I will abide by the decision of the vote and if CWE stays, will continue to attempt to moderate it as impartially as I have always tried to do.

These are my personal opinions.

Thanks

Geezer

"Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer" so goes the old saying. It is easier to moderate what concerns you in here, than letting it leak out in to NSR.

Geezer

Katana

Ditch the forum. This forum is like a green light for certain posters to air their chocolate coated xenophobic views. Discussion is one thing, but certain views might get a foothold in the community if given enough responses.

Leslie

I think you should keep it for all the reasons which have been quoted already. Even if the Gulf War is said to be finished, I still believe it has a significant place on this forum.

The only way is to be very severe towards those who cause trouble, either edit them out or they should get a warning with "teeth" in it.

Les

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

That might be true but there is also the possibility that people start threads in here that they would otherwise not in NSR.

Also, as less of the general membership is interested in CWE than in NSR, things tend to get missed. The ratio of RTMs to instances requiring moderating in CWE is very low.

That says 2 things to me.

1) That the majority of the membership are not interested in CWE or what goes on in here

2) That the general protagonists are quite happy to have their own private little battleground and soapboxes

This lack of assistance from the membership in reporting instances that require moderating, whereas in NSR it is high, means that every single thread/post has to be scanned and studied.

Once again, CWE is adding nothing to the community and is detracting from it.

Finally, those threads that have "merit" can exist in NSR, policed by both the membership and moderators and open to a far wider audience, once again encouraging lively debate and discussion.

(MPO again!)

Thanks

MJW

I think the forum should stay : when good threads are on the go it's very interesting and there is a broad variety of opinion : I like posting in here. There are certain people who perhaps get too wound up by what others have posted, but some of the subjects covered here are bound to incite an emotional response due to the diversity of opinion of the members.

I agree that PTMW and the other mods have a *very* hard time moderating this forum, as any edit or deletion they make is bound to incur the wrath of poster, and the usual censorship/free speech issues get waved around. So I can understand why the mods want it closing. Unfortunately the mods are unable to force people to think before they hit the 'reply' button and its this that the members need to do to stop this forum descending into a continuous slanging match.

I don't think closing the forum will lighten the mods' load as the threads will probably just get displaced into NSR. So please keep it open !

yoza

I voted to keep it.

But after read PTMW's two posts I think it should be closed, to put him out of his misery.
Or better still move him to mod the Wales section, semi retirement shall we say.

Katana

But where do you do draw the line between lively debate and thinly veiled racism? Its no wonder why ad hominem attacks are made when the frustration of it just hits you especially when certain views which are wrong and are considered to be the norm are allowed but a rebuttal is met with nothing but redicule.

And before everything is swept away under the carpet, there are some blatant bigoted posters here who seems to be having a free reign on this forum never getting moderated or even a little warning. Moses on the other hand, may be a frustrated guy but he's not a troublemaker when you speak to him but he seems to be the target of almost every mod there is on that forum. Yes I he is eccentric but a lot of the attacks are meant for him directly disguised as inuendos. I can understand how he feels. He's tried everything at first to educate the ignorant but in the end, out of frustration, he just resorts to ad hominem attacks.

Yes I too fall in this category out of frustration. I'm normally a mild mannered guy if you've met me and I know many scoobynetters who'll vouch for me but the rubbish thats spewed here is the same rubbish I get while walking on the streets like "What is a ch*nk doing with a with woman, go back to your own country!".

Redkop

As Puff says this forum needs more vigilant moderating than any other forum on SN, due to the lack of support from members willing to use the RTM button.

Therefore, every reply on every single thread has to be read, whether the thread is of interest to you or not. This is very time consuming, especially when there's 2 or 3 active discussions going on. Continual 24/7 moderation of this forum would to be needed to keep everyone happy. I have spent an inordinate amount of my time this week reading as much as I can editing and deleting posts where necessary.

Incitement and resulting insults/name-calling can easily be avoided IF users would not respond to the initial post they find offensive and immediately RTM it and let the Moderators deal with it. Then maybe offending users might just get the message.........

ajm

Keep it, for the reasons highlighted above. Political discussions will always be heated - people should be grown up enough to accept that people don't always share their views. If they can't accept that then they should stay out of CWE.

To my mind people who are incapable of spotting a wind up and who get upset to the point of RTM'ing a thread every time they get sucked in are as much a part of the problem as the wind up merchants themselves.

Either way, heated political discussions are easier to control if they are given a home, so let CWE stay, albeit with a few warnings in the forum description. Then no one has an excuse to take it too personally.

Buckrogers

Perhaps a "sticky" post with words to this effect at the top of this forum?

And a further trial run, with more users reminded / now aware about RTM use?



I for one will be more vigilant and use the RTM if I think it appropriate to do so, if it means the forum stays.

Markus

Ditch It. To be frank it just seems to end in debates about relgion and islam and the usual arguing that goes on surrounding those topics. There is no saying it won't happen in NSR.

jasey

This is typical of the sort of bull$hit we all put up with in our modern society.

The PROBLEM is the troublemakers - The SOLUTION is to get rid of them.

It's pretty simple really

But in today's society

The PROBLEM is the troublemakers - The SOLUTION is to try and find a way of fixing the problem without upsetting the PROBLEM.

Keep the Forum - Ditch the Troublemakers

Ted Maul

Keep it. If it wasn't for CWE, I would never here the spectrum of views, it gives me perspective.

I think it's getting better. Moses know who trolls/baits and who just has different views and the number of problems has gone down since the last poll we did.

Ted

Jye

Keep it, censorship of political views or other CWE's is just going to clog up NSR.

I bet most of the people voting to ditch it i.e. Markus for one, rarely post here if ever. Some people seem to need to have an opinion on everything these days.

If you cant stand the heat then get back to the hutch.

ex-webby

Hi All

Some very good points. There are a few points which are springing up that are not so realistic though.

These issues will not "clog up" NSR, etc. They are few and far between for a start, and would be a minor part of NSR. In addition, this forum creates a place for those with the stronger and more extreme views to come and spoil for a fight, or simply attempt to offend.

So far we have a tiny number of votes to keep this forum. the votes to get rid of it (whilst currently outweighing those to keep it) are of little interest to us actually. It is more important to see just how many people place importance on keeping it (unfortunately, you can't add a poll with only one option though!! ).

This forum is simply not valuable enough to this community as I see it. If those who want to discuss the issues, still want to, they can of course do that in the other forums, but WITHIN the forum guidelines.

All the best

Simon

Jye

That was a fast decision.

ex-webby

The decision has not been taken Jye.

Ted Maul

so how many people need to vote 'for' for you to change your mind webmaster?