engine conversions
06 January 2002, 10:34 PM
#1
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Sorry forgot Jamie on www.performanceexhausts.net for Dawes.
http://www.sidc.co.uk/faq.htm The good but out of date SIDC FAQ.
[Edited by john banks - 6/1/2002 10:35:16 PM]
http://www.sidc.co.uk/faq.htm The good but out of date SIDC FAQ.
[Edited by john banks - 6/1/2002 10:35:16 PM]
06 March 2002, 08:58 AM
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Wacky,
I don't want to name any tuner specifically - that would be unfair and probably libelous - however let's just imagine that a tuner is putting together a package to offer a specific upgrade.
It would be relatively simple to get some very good figures by running the car very lean and running it very quickly on a RR to avoid heat and too much det. It may be possible that a car could produce significantly optimisitic figures.
This is then the marketing number.
Then once the bits are standardised and put on a car safely - that advertised 400bhp upgrade might only be putting out 330-350bhp - so where has your money gone?
This is a purely hypothetical argument - another would be running it on Hyperflow-30 racing fuel or whatever....
....there are always ways.
So pick your tuner with care - pick him/her by reputation, and reputations with people who know about cars - not just people who are impressed with magazine figures.
Of course none of these statements are specifically directed at any of the tuners mentioned in this thread. Some of them are very good.
Trout
[Edited by Trout - 6/3/2002 9:02:53 AM]
I don't want to name any tuner specifically - that would be unfair and probably libelous - however let's just imagine that a tuner is putting together a package to offer a specific upgrade.
It would be relatively simple to get some very good figures by running the car very lean and running it very quickly on a RR to avoid heat and too much det. It may be possible that a car could produce significantly optimisitic figures.
This is then the marketing number.
Then once the bits are standardised and put on a car safely - that advertised 400bhp upgrade might only be putting out 330-350bhp - so where has your money gone?
This is a purely hypothetical argument - another would be running it on Hyperflow-30 racing fuel or whatever....
....there are always ways.
So pick your tuner with care - pick him/her by reputation, and reputations with people who know about cars - not just people who are impressed with magazine figures.
Of course none of these statements are specifically directed at any of the tuners mentioned in this thread. Some of them are very good.
Trout
[Edited by Trout - 6/3/2002 9:02:53 AM]
01 June 2002, 10:00 PM
#3
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What are all these phase one and phase two engine conversions that i keep seeing on dyno tested scoobys.
Has anyone got any idea of prices, because they seem to make a fair old difference in power output.
Cheers
Has anyone got any idea of prices, because they seem to make a fair old difference in power output.
Cheers
01 June 2002, 10:29 PM
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www.powerengineering.co.uk supply the Phase I conversion for MY98 and earlier Imprezas. www.ecutek.co.uk supply a flash remap of the original MY99/00 ECU.
Powerstation.org.uk are renowned for Unichips in particular.
www.brdevelopments.com do Link ECUs for just about all Imprezas. www.scoobymania.co.uk also sell Link products.
www.townendgarage.co.uk can supply and fit GEMS ECUs.
Your Subaru dealer can provide the Prodrive Performance Pack.
Hope I have not forgotten anyone
Other items are available - electronic boost controllers from Blitz, HKS, Apexi, manual boost controllers from www.dawesdevices.com and there are also fuel and ignition controllers available.
Superchips are generally not recommended on here.
Powerstation.org.uk are renowned for Unichips in particular.
www.brdevelopments.com do Link ECUs for just about all Imprezas. www.scoobymania.co.uk also sell Link products.
www.townendgarage.co.uk can supply and fit GEMS ECUs.
Your Subaru dealer can provide the Prodrive Performance Pack.
Hope I have not forgotten anyone
Other items are available - electronic boost controllers from Blitz, HKS, Apexi, manual boost controllers from www.dawesdevices.com and there are also fuel and ignition controllers available.
Superchips are generally not recommended on here.
02 June 2002, 12:33 PM
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I think we have forgotten the lovely bunch at RC Developments. Clive and Max both know their stuff and bleive me, they have produced a few monsters. They are also fitting APEXI Power FC ECU's.
Max has told me the ECU is brilliant. It does everything that GEMS and Motech do but a lot cheaper. A lot of the tuners in Japan use the power FC.
Try www.rcdevelopments.com
Max has told me the ECU is brilliant. It does everything that GEMS and Motech do but a lot cheaper. A lot of the tuners in Japan use the power FC.
Try www.rcdevelopments.com
02 June 2002, 12:44 PM
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A couple of things...
from reading the original post Phase 1 and Phase 2 are not engine conversions. They are specification of the Scooby engine. All cars pre model-year (MY) 98 are Phase 1 engines. A revised spec was introduced called Phase 2 - this is MY99 to MY02. Then there is another engine in the bug eyes.
In terms of power - the phase 1 and phase engines will produce the same power - however all the peripherals make the difference - heads, cams, turbos, etc, etc.
Second point - out of interest - can you let me know what the Apexi does that the Motec and Gems do - for example does it have multi-dimensional compensation so it can adjust boost say when the egt rises above a preset limit? If it does do these things that Motec say they do then it would be a really good value product.
Trout
from reading the original post Phase 1 and Phase 2 are not engine conversions. They are specification of the Scooby engine. All cars pre model-year (MY) 98 are Phase 1 engines. A revised spec was introduced called Phase 2 - this is MY99 to MY02. Then there is another engine in the bug eyes.
In terms of power - the phase 1 and phase engines will produce the same power - however all the peripherals make the difference - heads, cams, turbos, etc, etc.
Second point - out of interest - can you let me know what the Apexi does that the Motec and Gems do - for example does it have multi-dimensional compensation so it can adjust boost say when the egt rises above a preset limit? If it does do these things that Motec say they do then it would be a really good value product.
Trout
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02 June 2002, 06:48 PM
#8
Trout,
I quite understand your concerns re phase engines and their (reputed) power outputs. Ties into another thread about power delivery at the flywheel/wheels.
We have to adopt a uniform standard for measuring these things such that anyone saying their upgrade gives say 400bhp can be sure they aren't speaking through their rear orifices.
The other side of this coin is that if I have just paid say £5K to move from, say 300 to 400bhp, I want to be bl$$dy sure thats the case ie I want to be sure I gets whats I pays for.
This point is quite important to me at the moment as I am considering an exhaust conversion (when my UK STi7 arrives)to give me back some of the lost power over a Japanese spec car.
If it wasn't for the fact that I know the specialist who has offered to do the conversion I would be very very sceptical. Even now I am not 100% convinced, however I will get the job done because I know the torque band characteristics will alter favourably, which is fine.
Any thoughts on this issue (sorry, hope I have not hijacked your thread).
WB
I quite understand your concerns re phase engines and their (reputed) power outputs. Ties into another thread about power delivery at the flywheel/wheels.
We have to adopt a uniform standard for measuring these things such that anyone saying their upgrade gives say 400bhp can be sure they aren't speaking through their rear orifices.
The other side of this coin is that if I have just paid say £5K to move from, say 300 to 400bhp, I want to be bl$$dy sure thats the case ie I want to be sure I gets whats I pays for.
This point is quite important to me at the moment as I am considering an exhaust conversion (when my UK STi7 arrives)to give me back some of the lost power over a Japanese spec car.
If it wasn't for the fact that I know the specialist who has offered to do the conversion I would be very very sceptical. Even now I am not 100% convinced, however I will get the job done because I know the torque band characteristics will alter favourably, which is fine.
Any thoughts on this issue (sorry, hope I have not hijacked your thread).
WB
03 June 2002, 06:05 PM
#9
Trout,
Seems being sure that you are getting what you pays for on the tuning front can be a bit of a lottery if care isn't taken. I can't see how that can be good for the industry.
I would much rather live with a 20bhp guaranteed and proven upgrade from, say, an improved induction kit, than a 70bhp guestimate on the same thing from a tuner who thinks that's what I want to hear.
WB
Seems being sure that you are getting what you pays for on the tuning front can be a bit of a lottery if care isn't taken. I can't see how that can be good for the industry.
I would much rather live with a 20bhp guaranteed and proven upgrade from, say, an improved induction kit, than a 70bhp guestimate on the same thing from a tuner who thinks that's what I want to hear.
WB
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