john banks

Please advise a youngster yearning for a torque monster

Nezz10

I wish I had 320 lbft to destory a gearbox!! 260 will have to do for now.

EvilBevel

I'm on my third gearbox (stripped 3rd last year, now stripped 2nd) with only 260 lb/ft. But oops, you only wanted the opinion of people who didn't I see

And I'm still trying to find an uprated one, but that is turning into a nightmare .

Mind you, I'll be honest & say that it might be related to my driving style (or lack off), the AP clutch, the quickshift, or a combination of all 3.

Flat 4x4

John B

Buy a diesel V6 Audi or Merc and chip it. I did !

Ignoring the sarcasm, isn't there a design tolerance figure known for all gearboxes, not that I know what the Subaru is.

I would guess and say that consistency of peak torque rather than the absolute figure is more important ?

john banks

Theo did it happen when you were changing gear or were you in gear at the time?

Diesel V6 very nice but not really going to give over 300 BHP as well

[Edited by john banks - 6/15/2002 9:16:27 AM]

EvilBevel

John, stripping 3rd was in gear ... was slowing down for some lights, guy up my bumper, annoyed, booted it, nice cool weather... rattle rattle

2nd gear I'm not sure, as I only started to notice a noise when poodling around at 30 MPH and wondered what it was.

So it's not my "shifting" habits I think, but being clumsy whilst downshifting on track (let clutch come up too soon, no rev matching etc... jolt, mucho strain on gearbox)

Caveat: it's always possible that the damage builds up slowly or has been done previous to the moment it finally breaks.

Trout...

Theo,

but there are a number of uprated gearsets from Oz that are a good price - certainly cheaper than OEM replacements - these will easily cope with abuse!

John,

just in case anyone comes along and talks about Sti gearboxes - they ARE NOT uprated over the standard UK item - I checked the part nos and did the UK/J cross reference - the parts are the same apart from the final drive.

Trout

PS I had to rebuild mine - gear set was fine - bust an oil spreader ring changing into third and missing a gear.

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

I heard from a preson who has worked ont the boxes, and says that there are differences. The sti apparently has steel shifter forks, as the aluminium ones can bend on lesser models causing shift problems. Also the synchros on RA models are uprated compared to other cars. I cannot confirm this though, as I have not yet stripped any myself, I was just told. Obviously there is a variety of gear ratios on the different models of car too, not just the final drive ratio. It does seem that some boxes do last longer than others, wether it is down to driving style, different quality parts used, tolerances at the factory etc, or more torque, who knows? MRT do a straight dog set, which they sell as " UNBREAKABLE " and offer a 2year warranty. It is a dog selector, which they say is not to bad on the road, and is available in a variety of ratios. I calculated the price at under £3000 for the gear set. If you read the info on it, it may be sales talk, but it does sound good. If you can get any discount from them, and avoid the VAT B**tard at customs, then You should hvae some peace of mind there, that it aint gonna break again.
They do sell other semi helical, synchro sets, but the UNBREAKABLE claim sounds to be a challenge. :0

[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 6/15/2002 11:32:39 AM]

Pete Croney

Dog boxes are VERY LOUD inside the car though. Not sure I could live with one on a road car.

Pavlo

So you mean dog drive or straight cut gears? I think the MRT parts are straight cut for strength, rather that just having dog drive engagement.

But anyway, straight cut gears on reverse, so imaging driving and having every gear whirring away like reverse.

Paul

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

A "DOG" box will not be any different noise wise. The DOG refers only to the gear selection method only. Its just that most if not all dog boxes are straight cut gears, where the noise lies. Straihgt cut gears are usually made of stronger material, The straight cut designe doesnt really make it stronger, it is just that they are made of better quality because of their application. They also suffer much reduced transmission losses over helical cut gears, and do not place any thrust loadings on the bearings/thrust plates in the box. At the end of the day, a noisy gearbox is better than one that has to be replaced regularly due to weakness. Do you want to be broke down on a sh1tty rainy night somehwere, or in the middle of a race somewhere.. ( obviously a race on private ground somewhere... )
If your car has the power, it is no use if the gearbox keep breaking. I know, Ive had the problem with a couple of cars. No point in having such an important part, the weakest link in the driveline.
The dog selection is a more positive one when driving hard, hence used in competition. Synchros are primarily a road car thing, and for racce/rally use, dog box would be the preferred option. I dont think MRT do an "UNBREAKABLE" synchro set of gears though. They also say that the dog selection does work fine on the road. If you want a preformance car with relaibilty, there has to be compromises somewhere. Some straight cut designs are louder than others, might be hard to live with if using the car everday though. Their semi helical gearsets which are synchro shift, would probably be the best option for most.

[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 6/15/2002 1:41:47 PM]

Pavlo

"The straight cut designe doesnt really make it stronger"

It should make it a lot stronger, with a helical cut gear set, you only get a narrow contact area between 2 teeth, although you should mesh about 2 successive teeth at a time depending on gear diameter. With a straight cut gear mesh you engage accross the whole width of the tooth. End result is that you should end up with less local stress at the contact region, which if too high could cause problems for the whole tooth.

That said, it also depends on material, surface process, heat treatment etc.

paul

Trout...

There are gear sets from Oz that are synchro, very strong AND cheaper than the MRT set - I will check out the source - a friend of mine has bought one for a very high power application.

Stevie - my comment about the STi gear set is that it is reputed in many places that the gearbox is uprated - specifically the gear set - and this is not true. Not sure about the selector forks - my Sti box has steel forks - the RA box may well be different - but certainly the STi 4-door car is the same as the UK car.

Trout

EvilBevel

Trout, I would *really* appreciate the name where your friend got those.

OK, I really did some homework, and, after a long journey, the 2 "unbreakable" sets that stood out were:

1) MRT
2) Hollinger

Both were dog boxes/straight cut gearsets.

Both are from Oz.

I'm not sure I would need those, as my car only made a puny 290ish BHP and 260ish lb/ft at Powerstation, but I was prepared to go for one of those, despite - what Pete says - the noise. (can't hear a thing in my car anyway )

JF mentioned though that an unskilled driver can ruin a dogset before they can say "toodle-pip" I tend to take his opinion seriously, but in the mean time I did learn to double declutch.

I did investigate with MRT, but their price suddenly went up from 6.500 AUD to 9000 AUD. The emails take weeks to arrive (other side of the earth, mind) and I didn't get an answer for 3 weeks now as to WHY the price increased that much, given that I am ready to shell out cash for three sets (2 for friends of mine), to be delivered at the same address (Subaru dealer in The Netherlands)

So I contacted TSL (waiting for answer) and will contact Barratts (they seem to have a good reputation)

I just can't believe how DIFFICULT it is to part from my (and my friends) money, with the question "I want something that doesn't break on MY car". And I'm not talking about monsters here, just MY99/00 cars with a VF23.

So if anyone smells some money, feel free to contact me

[Edited by EvilBevel - 6/15/2002 5:04:00 PM]

Pavlo

I never cease to be amazed at how hard it is to force money onto some suppliers.

Paul

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

The straight cut doesnt make it stronger was quoted from an old articel I read about mini gears, from Jack Knight, who do have agood reputation regarding transmission, with minis anyway. A lot of companies have websites and emails, and dont seem to answer the emails. There is another device which usually gets prompt attention though. Its called a telephone It doesnt cost that much to phone Oz you know. The price I have for the MRT gearsets is approx $7800 Oz. That is from the June 2001 catalogue. Whilst I havent seen it with my own eyes, I have been reliably informed that UK boxes have aluminium selector forks. Not sure what age the box was though. I dont know wether any parts are uprated, just that some models will have different ratio gearsets, not just the diffs.
I would also like to hear from anyone who can actually reccomend a gearset from experience. A local box builder here said that the quaife gearset is not up to much, and that the best one was by Possum in NZ, even Prodrive claim it is the best...or so he tells me.

submannz

I re-built a RS twin turbo box, 205Kw from the factory, and got the gears further shot peened. Haven't blown it yet.

These boxes use twin baulk rings so also aid faster gear changes and less likelyhood of synchro crunch.

submannz

Dog boxes do whine more that normal boxes, and the gears are almost totally unbreakable.

Almost all years and models use alloy selector forks I have broken three. You can buy cast iron ones (used in rally cars) but too expensive for me.

[Edited by submannz - 6/17/2002 12:08:33 AM]

dowser

Re. MRT email response - just call them....I'm sure they'll bite your hand off for 3 sets

I have a friend who's lunched two boxes (3rd gear) - recent one was when his car hopped over a bump on track and came back down with him full on gas, but I'd say he makes pretty aggressive changes anyways (sorry Mio!).

Richard

TopCat

Yeah this is really pissing me off also I am on my third one in the last year alone, and now cant even do any stand starts as its guranteed the box with strip running 310 lbs of torque:-(

Trout my friend can get better gear sets than yours ;-)


MOE

john banks

So no conclusions on a viable replacement then ?

Sam Elassar

I have broken three gearboxes with my subaru as well. all of them where in gear and all on track though . last one at cadwell last year was a strange one as i was in part throttle in 3rd and as soon i got to the apex i floored it and guess what stripped 3rd gear

that was the 3rd box in one year!!! it pissed me off so much that i couldnot really enjoy the car any more so i sold it and got an evo 7. now although the gear box is stronger and should cope with 400lb/ft i realised the clutch is not and had to get a new one after 4000 miles . that also happened on track, hmmm....

do you see a pattern developing , i don't roll on donni on the 7th of july

i also know two people, with more than 280lb/ft one is on his 4th box!! and the other is on the 2nd


now how said subarus have chocolate pistons

David_Wallis

group buy coming on?

David

john banks

So practically Sam when this happened did you get the car trailered home and buy another gearbox from a breakers?

AlanG

Hmmm..on my third..... Last one the front diff gave up. Gears were fine though... Second box, the synchros had a holiday.

Got replacement boxes from Ireland for a good price and first class service.

A

john banks

Only the test of time will prove if your solution is viable Alan? Like manifolds this is not a very clear area to me!

Sam Elassar

john

i am the RAC ( HOME RECOVERY WORST NIGHTMARE ) i think i had them out at least twice last year to take trail the car for a good 300-400miles


sam

flat4

i'm sure townend garage in the UK do an uprated gearset

if you've played Gran Turismo 3 on the PS2 you'll know what a competition gearbox will sound like


kev

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

if anyone wants a dog box gearset let me know

Maddog

How much for the gearset Christian?