IHI VF turbo outlet with twin dump DP
07 April 2002, 07:58 PM
#1
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If you look carefully at some of the down pipe pics on the MRT site, you will see that there is a small plate (possibly part of the secondary pipe) that protrudes into the turbo housing.
It sits between the turbine exit and wastegate flap keeping the flows apart, hence the name.
Edited to say, the magnex twin dump pipe doesn't have said splitter.
Paul
[Edited by Pavlo - 7/4/2002 7:59:33 PM]
It sits between the turbine exit and wastegate flap keeping the flows apart, hence the name.
Edited to say, the magnex twin dump pipe doesn't have said splitter.
Paul
[Edited by Pavlo - 7/4/2002 7:59:33 PM]
07 May 2002, 12:23 PM
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I still don't know whether the next VF23 will be OK, we'll see. If I have anything to sell (which has all been checked out OK) then I'll let you know and it will save you a lot of the hassle.
So the TD05 with straight entry would bolt onto a MY00 like the VF turbos do?
[Edited by john banks - 7/5/2002 12:24:24 PM]
So the TD05 with straight entry would bolt onto a MY00 like the VF turbos do?
[Edited by john banks - 7/5/2002 12:24:24 PM]
04 July 2002, 07:53 PM
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http://www.mrtrally.com.au/performan...turbo-data.pdf
"The critical part is the design of the splitter for the exhaust collector as the VF turbos have a different depth to them when compared to the factory TD04 and TD05. Meaning if you swap turbos you should adjust the length of the splitter. A splitter made for a VF turbo will be too long for a TD04/05 (the exhaust simply won't bolt up) and a splitter made for a TD04/5 will be too short for a VF and hence allow gases to mix too early causing an increase in lag and less power)."
Any comments on this with a Magnex twin dump downpipe - is this the splitter that it refers to? Not that I really believed all the twin dump nonsense anyway, but anyone forsee any issues going from TD04 to VF with a twin dump pipe?
In the PDF there are comparative pictures of the TD and VF and you can see what they mean.
Any comments on performance of a VF23 vs TD05? Any A/R data on the TD05 as fitted to the 92-96 cars?
"The critical part is the design of the splitter for the exhaust collector as the VF turbos have a different depth to them when compared to the factory TD04 and TD05. Meaning if you swap turbos you should adjust the length of the splitter. A splitter made for a VF turbo will be too long for a TD04/05 (the exhaust simply won't bolt up) and a splitter made for a TD04/5 will be too short for a VF and hence allow gases to mix too early causing an increase in lag and less power)."
Any comments on this with a Magnex twin dump downpipe - is this the splitter that it refers to? Not that I really believed all the twin dump nonsense anyway, but anyone forsee any issues going from TD04 to VF with a twin dump pipe?
In the PDF there are comparative pictures of the TD and VF and you can see what they mean.
Any comments on performance of a VF23 vs TD05? Any A/R data on the TD05 as fitted to the 92-96 cars?
04 July 2002, 09:12 PM
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So John, are you saying that pipes like the Scoobysport, magnex and the like produce lag because they dont have a seperator blade?
I think the difference is not that much, that you would have to worry about it.
Depending on the level of your mods, depends of which pipe you should go for.
Saying that, the Scoobysport 3 inch pipe seems to be getting some good results. And guess what, NO SEPERATOR....
Dan
I think the difference is not that much, that you would have to worry about it.
Depending on the level of your mods, depends of which pipe you should go for.
Saying that, the Scoobysport 3 inch pipe seems to be getting some good results. And guess what, NO SEPERATOR....
Dan
04 July 2002, 09:17 PM
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John
The theory of the twin dump is that it keeps the wastegate gasses separate from those from the main turbo outlet. In theory, mixing the gasses in the exhaust pipe causes losses due to turbulance. My opinion - bo11ox, but who am I to say as I have a Scoobysport downpipe with a bellmouth. From previous experience, the only point in keeping them separate was with an external wastegate and to meet emissions/noise testing requirements.
If you belive in twin dump, then the splitter length is critical - it "must" match the despth of the recess in the turbo. If it doesn't, then you have defeated the point of the design.
HTH
Duncan
PS What are you going to do about a gearbox for all of this torque you will have. The only route I can see (and I'm being dragged kicking and screaming) is the MT6 fitted as standard to the New Age STi.
The theory of the twin dump is that it keeps the wastegate gasses separate from those from the main turbo outlet. In theory, mixing the gasses in the exhaust pipe causes losses due to turbulance. My opinion - bo11ox, but who am I to say as I have a Scoobysport downpipe with a bellmouth. From previous experience, the only point in keeping them separate was with an external wastegate and to meet emissions/noise testing requirements.
If you belive in twin dump, then the splitter length is critical - it "must" match the despth of the recess in the turbo. If it doesn't, then you have defeated the point of the design.
HTH
Duncan
PS What are you going to do about a gearbox for all of this torque you will have. The only route I can see (and I'm being dragged kicking and screaming) is the MT6 fitted as standard to the New Age STi.
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04 July 2002, 10:13 PM
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Agree guys I think the whole twin dump thing is bollox even though I have one - the comment was tongue in cheek.
The STi box sounds a possiblility - I heard they were $4500 though, but surely they will get cheaper. Apparently they fit straight on?
The STi box sounds a possiblility - I heard they were $4500 though, but surely they will get cheaper. Apparently they fit straight on?
04 July 2002, 10:47 PM
#9
The STi7 box is actually £26k but comes with a free car and leaves loads of room to improve it further!
I'm quite interested to see where you're going next with the std UK tuning, John. I think it's an EVO don't you....
F
I'm quite interested to see where you're going next with the std UK tuning, John. I think it's an EVO don't you....
F
04 July 2002, 11:14 PM
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It is only the gearbox holding me back. Looks like it will be a TD05 straight entry or a VF23. At this tiddly level the gearbox will cope I hope I'll just have to not drive it like a prat.
I MUST NOT BUY A FMIC.
I MUST NOT BUY A FMIC.
I MUST NOT BUY A FMIC.
I MUST NOT BUY A FMIC.
I MUST NOT BUY A FMIC.
I MUST NOT BUY A FMIC.
I MUST NOT BUY A FMIC.
I MUST NOT BUY A FMIC.
Maybe if I say it often enough it will be true
STi 7 - nah, too slow. You need really silly power to make up for the lardiness.
[Edited by john banks - 7/4/2002 11:16:26 PM]
I'll just have to not drive it like a prat.I MUST NOT BUY A FMIC.
I MUST NOT BUY A FMIC.
I MUST NOT BUY A FMIC.
I MUST NOT BUY A FMIC.
I MUST NOT BUY A FMIC.
I MUST NOT BUY A FMIC.
I MUST NOT BUY A FMIC.
I MUST NOT BUY A FMIC.
Maybe if I say it often enough it will be true
STi 7 - nah, too slow. You need really silly power to make up for the lardiness.
[Edited by john banks - 7/4/2002 11:16:26 PM]
05 July 2002, 08:53 AM
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John,
When you *do* buy a FMIC, you will loose all credibility on this BBS because you were adamant that you would not buy one
A tuner who goes back on his word is not to be trusted
Matt
P.S. You know you're gonna buy one
When you *do* buy a FMIC, you will loose all credibility on this BBS because you were adamant that you would not buy one
A tuner who goes back on his word is not to be trusted
Matt
P.S. You know you're gonna buy one
05 July 2002, 09:36 AM
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John,
Do you know of anyone who has converted a TD05 to straight entry to replace a TD04 (ie MY97-on)?
How much work is involved after the elbow has been cut off and a suitable pipe inserted into the compressor inlet?
Are you considering a std TD05 or a hybrid of some description?
Andrew...
Do you know of anyone who has converted a TD05 to straight entry to replace a TD04 (ie MY97-on)?
How much work is involved after the elbow has been cut off and a suitable pipe inserted into the compressor inlet?
Are you considering a std TD05 or a hybrid of some description?
Andrew...
05 July 2002, 10:19 AM
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Hi Andrew
Pat did this. The machining work on the turbo is approx £150.
You also need a 97/98 inlet manifold, water rail, inlet pipe and filter, power steering pump and throttle cable brackets.
Pat did this. The machining work on the turbo is approx £150.
You also need a 97/98 inlet manifold, water rail, inlet pipe and filter, power steering pump and throttle cable brackets.
05 July 2002, 10:23 AM
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john,
why dont you buy a fmic?
I think it would be a really good idea.
BTW.
I remember reading about some guy who accurately made the tongue up for his bpm downpipe and did before and after runs on the dyno (it was in aus) and he claimed an extra 10hp at the wheels.
He had had a tongue in place already, it was just not a perfect fit, and afterward ended up with a perfect seal.
My opinion,
hmmmm
bollocks.
why dont you buy a fmic?
I think it would be a really good idea.
BTW.
I remember reading about some guy who accurately made the tongue up for his bpm downpipe and did before and after runs on the dyno (it was in aus) and he claimed an extra 10hp at the wheels.
He had had a tongue in place already, it was just not a perfect fit, and afterward ended up with a perfect seal.
My opinion,
hmmmm
bollocks.
05 July 2002, 11:11 AM
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"You also need a 97/98 inlet manifold, water rail, inlet pipe and filter, power steering pump and throttle cable brackets. "
Pete, Andrew already has a 97 car, it would be an easy fit for him.
Pete, Andrew already has a 97 car, it would be an easy fit for him.
05 July 2002, 11:18 AM
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U R such a wuss JB.
FMIC, VF23, 1.3 bar...still on the stock gearbox - and the car is used on track, and the occational dragrace.
/J - that said, it'll prolly go fubar on the parking lot
FMIC, VF23, 1.3 bar...still on the stock gearbox - and the car is used on track, and the occational dragrace.
/J - that said, it'll prolly go fubar on the parking lot
05 July 2002, 12:03 PM
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Thanks Pete and Andy,
I've actually got a '98, I was (not very clearly) asking if anyone had fitted a TD05 to a car which originally came with a TD04.
I may have a source for a turbo and someone to convert it for me, however, I am interested to know if anything additional is required?
Sorry to hijack the thread John, if it helps I can take a VF23 off your hands as I already have a Scoobysport downpipe
Andrew...
I've actually got a '98, I was (not very clearly) asking if anyone had fitted a TD05 to a car which originally came with a TD04.
I may have a source for a turbo and someone to convert it for me, however, I am interested to know if anything additional is required?
Sorry to hijack the thread John, if it helps I can take a VF23 off your hands as I already have a Scoobysport downpipe
Andrew...
05 July 2002, 01:11 PM
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think you will find it will go straight on.
works well, but if you know the right places you can get a vf series turbo for cheap enough to make it more worthwhile.
not as rugged as a td05 but will spool much quicker. and fine if you are not running antilag.
works well, but if you know the right places you can get a vf series turbo for cheap enough to make it more worthwhile.
not as rugged as a td05 but will spool much quicker. and fine if you are not running antilag.
05 July 2002, 01:50 PM
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Where are the right places Adam? I found a place in the US that was $950 for a VF23 but they have not quoted me carriage yet. I have been trying the breakers so far but it is a lot of hassle not to get a damaged one it seems.
22 July 2002, 07:12 PM
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Where are the right places Adam? I found a place in the US that was $950 for a VF23 but they have not quoted me carriage yet. I have been trying the breakers so far but it is a lot of hassle not to get a damaged one it seems.
JIM
25 July 2002, 08:43 PM
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John Banks,
Re: "Not that I really believed all the twin dump nonsense anyway..."
Hast though forsaken your erstwhile god of turbocharging? hast thou forgotten what the bible says about this wastegate gassflow nonsense? Though shoudst be off to re-read the bible and then sayeth 50 "hail corky's" as penitence. 
Moray
Re: "Not that I really believed all the twin dump nonsense anyway..."
Hast though forsaken your erstwhile god of turbocharging? hast thou forgotten what the bible says about this wastegate gassflow nonsense? Though shoudst be off to re-read the bible and then sayeth 50 "hail corky's" as penitence.
Moray
25 July 2002, 09:02 PM
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The Prodrive GrpA design has a massive exit pipe, similar in shape to a Cobra head, tapering down to 3". The "Cobra head" section of the pipe is split in two, seperating the wastegate flow, from the main flow.
I think you'll find that most of the "big power" cars, using Garrett's, also use an "external" wastegate, again seperating the gasses.
Guess there must be a good reason for it.
Mark.
I think you'll find that most of the "big power" cars, using Garrett's, also use an "external" wastegate, again seperating the gasses.
Guess there must be a good reason for it.
Mark.
25 July 2002, 09:21 PM
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If swapping inlets from old to new style, for a straight entry, The older ones have a 4 wire TPS, while the newer ones are a 3 wire only TPS. Can this be made to work with the older ecu's??
There are also modifiications to be made to breather pipes and possibly fuel pipes etc that travel through/under the inlet manifold, to clear a path for the inlet pipe to the turbo.
Id agree, that I think the twin dump thing is bollox. When the wastegate flap is open, it nearly blocks the twin dump hole anyway
There are also modifiications to be made to breather pipes and possibly fuel pipes etc that travel through/under the inlet manifold, to clear a path for the inlet pipe to the turbo.
Id agree, that I think the twin dump thing is bollox. When the wastegate flap is open, it nearly blocks the twin dump hole anyway
25 July 2002, 09:31 PM
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""Id agree, that I think the twin dump thing is bollox. When the wastegate flap is open, it nearly blocks the twin dump hole anyway""
As recommended previously, I think it may work better with a splitter separating the wastegate flow so it is forced down the little pipe. Only problem is, I don't think you would get the downpipe off/on without removing the turbo, if there was a 2" splitter attached.
Unless you fixed the splitter into the turbo somehow
As recommended previously, I think it may work better with a splitter separating the wastegate flow so it is forced down the little pipe. Only problem is, I don't think you would get the downpipe off/on without removing the turbo, if there was a 2" splitter attached.
Unless you fixed the splitter into the turbo somehow