specialx

I got my scoob with a pace 1st edition front mounted intercooler already fitted, so far I have had mixed opinions on it's effectiveness?? I have not yet driven a scoob without one so I have no point of reference.
Are they really that good?
Are they worth the money? (not that I paid for it!)
how much difference do they make???

thanks for any info you can give X

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Put it this way, your biggest problem with a fmic is stones, the best improvement is increased airflow
The TMIC suffers at higher speeds due to airflow and this can lead to engines dying due to high temps, the FMIC has constant airflow when your going forward, thus its better

Tony

chrisp

Can give you more lag

NotoriousREV

In my experience on a hot day with the standard, early TMIC (MY93 in my case) after about 10 minutes of "spirited" driving the power drops off significantly as the ECU tries to deal with increased charge temps by backing the timing off. A couple of people I've spoken to tell me that the lag "problem" isn't that significant and is more than made up for by the increased performance and the lack of performance drop off. If I ever get my **** in gear, I'll find out first hand

specialx

Ta for the info, I don't have an induction kit fitted as a bit of air in the box helps with lag.(so I'm told)
I did nail it down the m1 to london on a cold morning the car loved it lots of power and response, cant wait for the colder weather!!

white scooby

Just had one put on mine a bit more lag but definately worth it bags more top end power!!!

Stuart Knight

iTrader: (2)

I don't know where all this talk of increased lag came from but IMHO there ain't any more lag than with the TMIC. If you work out the extra volume of pipework associated with a FMIC adnd then look at how much air the turbo shifts, it is not going to take appreciably longer to pressurise the extra volume.

Is a FMIC worth it. Yes. If you have reached the limits of the TMIC like I did. My car was progressivley tuned from the 240bhp std (MY94 WRX) up to 293BHP. The engine was then rebuilt with Cosworth pistons, STiV heads, ported manifolds, 440 injectors etc and the power increase was 1bhp (yes, one). This was because we couldn't get the charge temp down, we were on the limit of what the TMIC could cope with. I then fitted the PACE FMIC, went back for a remap and gained 36bhp.

Pavlo

Actually it can easily take an extra 0.5 seconds to fill the pipework with pressurised air. This isn't what you want between gears.

however, the increase in power capability and temperature stability is well worth it for most applications

Paul

rapac

The best tmi = <<<< worse fmi
FMI=>boost >power>reliability>scope for future mods
When tuned with fmi = very very little lag?



Cheers

nom

Never really worked out the lag problem with FMICs. I've never used one with a tiddly turbo so quite possibly have removed the problem in the first place, but the pressure delta should travel as a shockwave (ie speed of sound) through the FMIC, hence really not take very long to get from one end to the other! You don't actually have to wait for the new, high pressure molecules to plod from the compressor to the manifold...

-=uk99=-

im triing a co2 cooler from the us it should have the same efect as a fm i think the colder the better

specialx

Great info guys cheers, we got 308bhp with 16psi at wells lane mods= Decat full scorpion,power boost valve,chip,j 4 turbo??

The only downer about the FMIC is the loss of air con but nevermind eh!!!

tweenierob

My WRX made 320bhp and i am quite sure that it would have made a bit more with larger injectors... using the TMIC.
FMIC does make a difference, in fact i would say a big difference during gear changes... Loads more lag!!
As Pavlo says, 0.5secs of extra lag is fine when you put your foot down in gear... But when you are being timed and you have to make 4 gear changes that could mean 2secs on your time..
My FMIC also had a shorter pipe run than any Aftermarket FMIC's using the std position Throttle body, what it would havce been like with another 2 feet of pipework i dont wanna think about.
when changing gear on hard acceleration the boost was on instantly with the TMIC, it seemed like forever with the FMIC.

But....
If you want big power the TMIC aint even worth thinking about!! I personally think that a chargecooler is the perfect compromise as long as it can be kept cool.

rapac

I ll have to seriously doubt that 0.5 sec lag.
We at OZ run the fastest 1/4 times(wrx) and every one has a fmi.
To name a few:
9.40 sec at 147MPH
9.71 sec at 148MPH
10.02 sec at 145MPH


Cheers

UHF

@tweenierob, and who is doing chargecoolers at reasonable prices?

I investigated this for my old Fiesta but i've not seen too much speak of them for imprezas, anyone done this?

tweenierob

Rapac, sorry i should have said that all my comments did not include the use of Antilag or N20

UHF, i am unsure of anyone that supplies ready made kits for the scoob.. I know of two people that have made there own kits up. Depending on your engineering ability i would not say that it was too much hassle. Andy F made his own CC system using the std IC in a water Jacket IIRC.. I dont know how much hassle this was for him but it shows that you dont need to buy the complete kit etc etc

Rob

hades

You've got to remember that, for example, an APS TMIC gives ~2psi less pressure drop with better cooling than the OEM TMIC on the bugeye, and the bugeye has a lot bigger TMIC than any classic. Compare an uprated TMIC to a good FMIC, IMHO with a TD04, you're at least as well off with an uprated TMIC. If you run a bigger turbo, you want to go the FMIC route.

Can't claim to be an expert, but that's the way I see it.

Bob Rawle

You will always gain with a FMIC whatever turbo you have.

Cooler charge temps mean that more timing can be run or there is more safety if you are not getting a remap or ecu change.

bob

nom

I think there might be a problem with lag if the BOV isn't behaving itself, or is quite keen on dumping air whenever possible... ditch the BOV & there's similar drop on response between gears with an FMIC or TMIC.
Anyway. TMICs are pants. Get used to the readings/settings on an FMIC & watch gauges when on a TMIC & go . Temperatures all over the place, ECU manicly retarding all over the place because you have been having a blast, or you haven't (depending on, it seems, its mood...)

Bob Rawle

No real problem, in practice its not a noticeable effect at all. And a properly set up BOV puts it back to "normal" or even improves.

bob