Andy W

The title says it all, the clutch is gone on my RB5. I have heard of std clutches being replaced with the P1 clutch as a cure for judder, is this because the P1 clutch is better?
If I get a P1 clutch will this safeguard the warranty, a dealer warned me that is an uprated clutch is used then the warranty would be in jeopardy.

Finally (for those that haven't gone back to the menu already) is it any more expensive than the std one?

Your help will guarantee my gratitude forever!


Andy

Edit is 31,000 mile a particularly short lifespan, should I push for a warranty claim?

[This message has been edited by Andy W (edited 07 June 2001).]

AWJB

I would check with your dealer again, as on the mainland UK the std clutch has been replaced by the P1 clutch cover, the std one is no longer available.

As for a warranty claim, if the clutch is worn out, there will be no chance of a warranty claim. When the gearbox is removed the clutch disc is measured so when a claim is applied for, IM know how much the clutch has been worn, if it is worn beyond a certain thickness the clutch use is deemed fair wear & tear. If the clutch disc has failed/broken it could be a different matter, either way the owner needs to give the dealer his/her permission th remove & inspect the clutch.Approx 5 hrs labour.

Current price for the clutch cover/pressure plate is £145, £50 less than it was 3 months ago, the bearing & disc are the same as std.

Replacing the std cover with the P1 cover will not Void your warranty, so ask your dealer to check again, as the warranty proceedure for clutch judder is to replace the std cover with a P1 cover, how can this void the warranty when its IM autherising the repair.??????!!!!!


Good luck

Andrew B

Andy W

Cheers for the reply,
I called IM directly today, they were very helpful but obviously couldn't answer a theoretical question directly over the phone and have advised me to push the dealer to submit a PWA (proir warranty approval) form anyway.

Andy

scoobyboy

if you've done more than 10-15,000 mls im don't usally replace the clutch undder warranty

AndyMc

So 15000 miles is considered to be an acceptable life for a clutch?.Thats PANTS

I know a lad with an Audi coupe (170 bhp and 4wd) which has managed 167,000 miles on the standard clutch so far.Why do Scoobs struggle to last 50K?

Mick

iTrader: (1)

AndyMc - Sure its a 'Lad' driving the Audi

My wifes Legacy 2.2 GX required a new clutch just before 100k!

Mick

AWJB

Scooby boy,
the mileage does not seem to matter,(to a certain extent) its the thickness of the friction disc that they are interested in & if the car has had a clutch before. I have made several successful claims on vehicles that have done just over 30k. If the car has a problem & the clutch is not worn on removal the chances are good of getting a replacement.
Every claim I have put through I have given IM's the tickness of the friction lining, if the clutch is worn beyond a certain thickness THEN it is deemed fair wear & tear. This i feel is fair.
IM's warranty cannot be liable for WORN out clutches, even if they are prone to juddering. I can't believe i just stuck up for them....!!!!

Andrew B

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Why o why did Subaru first design a performance car with a clutch that feels like it should be on a Micra?
No wonder there has been all these problems of clutch judder.
I still had an original clutch in A1 condition on an Audi S2 (putting out 300 lbft)after 90,000 miles.
Mind you, my left leg developed into one of Arnies proportions - but at least it felt like it was up to the job.

Perhaps with all the clutch warranty claims, Subaru have beefed up the MY01 version?
Does anyone with an MY01 notice a better clutch?

Nick

Allan

iTrader: (1)

AWJB,
My MY00 (9K) was replaced last week under warranty for judder and squeal with what the dealer called a "like for like" replacement, even though I asked for the P1 upgrade.
Are you sure that they don't fit the standard parts any more ?

Not too impressed at the moment as I still have judder (noticed it on the way home from the dealer!)
This feels like miss-alignment to me, at low revs worse on a slight incline, also on the occasional down change from 3 to 2.

Dealer has said run it for a while.
Allan

SSE

-quote- the warranty proceedure for clutch judder is to replace the std cover with a P1 cover -unquote-

Andrew B:
Hi there,
Have just had the clutch replaced under warranty on my MY00, but to my big disappointment, it's not for the better.
That is, I don't get the occasional JUDDDERRRR on engaging 1st before car is warmed up, but instead I get slight juddering all the time, most notable in 1st and reverse gear.
Dealer did not replace flywheel even though I insisted that they should, but after admitting replacement of clutch didn't fix the juddering, they have agreed to replace flywheel as well. The clutch parts they have replaced have new partnumbers, and should be some kind of 'upgrade' compared to the original ones. (AFAIK it includes pressure plate, friction disc and bearings.)
I suspect that judder will go away when replacing flywheel, as the judder I feel now is different from before; not so much direct judder in the pedal so guess cld be an unbalanced/damaged flywheel (or?)
Is it really standard warranty procedure in UK to replace cover/housing as well?
I asked my dealer about replacing the cover with a P1 one as well, but after talking to importer, they said it's only available in UK for P1's only. But since you say the original one is no longer available - could you possibly post the partnumber for this cover, so I can discuss matter with my dealer?

Any assistance appreciated.
Regards,
Simen.

Allan

iTrader: (1)

Simen,
My replacement did include the flywheel, it's interesting that you have similar symptons to mine.
Allan

Allan

iTrader: (1)

Hi Simen,
I agree on the standard procedure, a definate acceptance that there is a problem, with the cause and which parts will be fitted from all dealers would be nice.
My dealer did not know about the upgraded P1 option.
I guess it's back we go then
Cheers
Allan

SSE

Hi Allan,
So it's still juddering although the flywheel was replaced? Guess I should get serious towards the dealer and send them something in writing before it goes in for replacement of the flywheel. I don't think I am gonna accept the 'run it for a while' excuse... Can't believe Subaru haven't made up a standard procedure (which includes specification of the parts to be replaced) to be adhered to by all dealers as a definite solution to this problem.
Seems the dealers are practising trial and error every time another of their customers shows up with a juddering clutch!!

Simen.

Dark

iTrader: (1)

Andy W

I had a warranty clutch replacement on my MY98 5dr at 24k miles, 2.5yrs old, due to judder. I'm aware of several others who had warranty clutch replacements for a similar problem at a similar mileage.

I think it partly depends upon the dealer. One dealer close to me says "they all do that sir". Another dealer says "we'll put a claim in to IM".

Be persistent and if in doubt try another dealer.

Regards

Mark

Chris L

For the benefit of Andy and others, this is how I understand it:

My MY00 clutch started juddering at around 6K miles. I reported it at the 7.5K service. It wasn't bad, I just wanted it on the service record incase there was any come back later on. At the time, my dealer (Cheam Motors) advised not to replace it,as they would have to fit exactly the same clutch and hence the problem was more than likely to return (it should be noted that this was about 9 months ago and Cheam had a fairly good idea what was causing the problem, it just wasn't and official IM solution at the time, so they could do nothing about it).

The juddering got progressively worse (still only occurring when the car was cold and only on the first few gear changes). At about 18K I took it in to have the clutch replaced (the clutch was feeling really bad by this time). Cheam advised that they could now fit the P1 clutch housing (note: this is the housing only, not the whole clutch (I think the P1 uses the same clutch)). The cause of a lot of the juddering problems has been the pressure that is maintained in the clutch housing. On the standard UK models, this has been leaking or suffering reduced pressure. The P1 clutch housing is much stronger and can therefore maintain higher pressures. As far as I'm aware, this is now the standard fix for the clutch judder problems.

My car has now done nearly 30K miles and the problem hasn't returned (I very occassionly get a slight judder in first gear, when the car is very cold or has been standing for a period of time). Overall I'm very happy with it and it has certainly made a big difference to the car.

If you are going to go down the route of an upgraded clutch (such as the AP unit), consider that you may well invalidate your warranty and also remember that many 'aftermarket' units are designed to handle much higher torque and power. The clutch acts as a safety mechanism for your gearbox - after all, what would you prefer broke? Your gearbox or your clutch? Higher performance clutches may well take more power, but can your gearbox?

Just my two cents worth..

Cheers
Chris

[This message has been edited by Chris L (edited 11 June 2001).]

Lemmy

Andy W

I have just had the clutch fixed under warranty because of clutch judder when cold, on my MY99 which had done 22500 miles when it was reported. My dealer seems to have done quite a few and did not require any proof of judder. When I asked about P1 clutch housings, he said that he didn't know and just fitted the part numbers specified by Subaru for this problem. However, he did confirm that a new flywheel was fitted.

The new parts have eliminated the clutch judder, improved the gear change and stopped the occasional soft whine (thought to be the clutch thrust bearing) when cold. Whether or not the effect will be permanent once the miles on the new clutch build up and the weather gets colder, we will have to wait and see. But at least I have a new clutch.

Alan