nickw

Well, following on from the 9 month debacle trying to get a surging MY00 sorted out we have finally been told to like it or lump it by IM.

It's a characteristic now, a feature of a factory specification vehicle. They all do that sir.... Needless to say I am really chuffed at receiving this extra feature - and I didn't have to pay a penny for it ! Looking forward to discovering the next extra feature those generous types at Subaru have installed in my car. Wheel falls off at 25k miles ? No problem sir, it's a feature. Saves on tyre wear you know.

They also suggest owners "drive through it". Well if you do you end up doing 90mph+. Look forward to waving my official Subaru letter in front of a distinctly unimpressed traffic officer. I could of course just not use fifth gear. Which would give my Impreza something else in common with a 15yr old Austin Maestro. The interior being the other obvious parallel.

Dial (who are behaving like a proper company) have offered to swap the scoob for something like a 325/328 Sport. Had a go in one the other day - not quite as quick but not slow, six pot made a lovely noise, interior on a different planet (no mice installed in dash, A-pillar, C-pillar, door etc etc).

I'd have to put up with all the BMW driver jokes of course, but then I would probably receive it back from service cleaner than when it went in, as opose to dirtier - and I probably wouldn't be given a dirty old Justy full of *** ends and with no fuel in as a courtesy car to go and pick clients up in....

What do we think everyone ?

Nick

bob

Thought that was coming, just as well I'm getting rid of mine.
The next extra feature should be the stitching coming apart on the rear seat this leaves a 6" gash. This extra saves going to the pub buying dragons drinks and trying to have your way with them. You will always have a 6" gash in the rear waiting for you.

Dave T-S

BOB
Only six inch gash then? You obviously like em tight....

CraigCH

LOL Dave + Bob, very good, but going back to Nicks original post I have a MY00 and have never experienced surging (19,000 miles so far) So I can't believe it is a feature. All the post's on here about the subject have just discussed what it does and when.I was wondering if there was any possibility we could compare details about the cars to try and find why some cars do it and others don't . Here is a list of possible relevent info about my car, do you do anything vastly different that could cause a problem Nick?

My00
Kept below 3000rpm until engine warm (according to water temperature gauge)
Mainly town driving
10w 40 oil (GTX Magnatec) as specified in handbook (changed every 3 months)
Broquete fuel catalyst fitted at 4 months old.
Scooby sport back box + ITG air filter fitted after 3 months approx.
Only ever run on 95 octane normal unleaded (usually Texaco or Esso, no cheap supermarket stuff).
I do enjoy the performance and don't drive like a granny so the engine does see high revs when conditions allow.
I don't know and to be honest can't really see how any of this could make a difference except maybe Broquet or fuel but I do fel sorry for the people who arn't enjoying what I have always found to be a fantastic and faultless car. If you want to compare anything else that I may have forgotten I will keep an eye on this thread.
Cheers
Craig.

bob

I jumped out of a MY98 and into a brand new MY00 and before I got to the bottom of the road felt there was something wrong. As I was trying to keep to below 4000rpm as running in. The car felt terrible. My dealer said I should be fair as the car was not run in. After running in the car I found it was just the same and hesitated when hot or cold The car would hesitate every time I went through the 2500-3000 rev range. I was then knackered as my old car was sold (the day after my dealer had it). The car went to my dealers quite a few times but every time it was still hesitating. I went to the track and found the car was soooo much slower than the other Scoobies.
I also do not race the car when it is cold.
I use the same oil my MY98 used.
I tried running on 95 Ron and 97 Ron.
I drive faster than the average.
I have had std exhaust, Magnex with cats and HKS Hiper without cats.
The car still hesitated.
The only time the car did not hesitate was when I fitted the Link and induction kit.
After a few months I removed my induction kit then a week or two later removed the Link. The AFM was U/S so I fitted another. The car now hesitates again but mainly when the car is cold and it feels ok when hot.
Just my findings.

nickw

The car is a standard MY00.

Not thrashed for the first 10 mins - I am pretty mechanically sympathetic.

Only use SUL - this was recommended by Subaru after the first ECU change.

My hesitation is worse in damp/cold weather. It is actually not that bad on warm dry sunny days - I know that if I wake up on a morning and it's raining the car will drive like a dog.

On the original question - do you guys think a 325/328 would be a fair swap ?

Nick

bob

A new 325 would be a bargain. Do they still make the 328? Or are we talking used cars.

BHORT

Nick, Has the knock sensor been replaced? From the reports that you can find on the web it seems that an over sensitive knock sensor can lead to the sort of problems that you are having.


Brendan

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

I have an MY00 turbo, no hesitation, run her up when cold, dont exceed 2500 rpm for the first 4-5 miles, fully synth oil since 1000miles, sul since 7miles, no problems and she flies like a rocket 11k on the clock now and in for her next service at the end of the week.

Also Re:- Craigs post, he does mainly town, i do mainly motorway...

All i can say is that it aint a "characteristic" on mine

Tony

[This message has been edited by TonyBurns (edited 07 May 2001).]

Hoppy

I feel sorry for you guys with the 'surging'. It must drive you mad. I find it hard to believe that it's a common feature and that "they all do that, Sir." Mine doesn't. Here's my experience.

Before ordering my car, I borrowed a UK99 for a week in October 1999. I don't recall any problems.

When my UK00 car arrived, I do recall a slight hesitance around 2,500-3,000 rpm, but only when stone cold. It was gone within a couple of miles.

I fitted a PPP about 20,000 miles ago and this too shows the slight hesitance under a very light throttle, under 3,000 rpm. But it's hardly even noticeable and again, it's completely gone after a mile or two.

I now have a full decat ScoobySport exhaust and ITG filter. This has netiher made the condition better nor worse.
Richard.

BHORT

I still think that it sounds a bit like this from the USA:


Subaru Service Bulletin Number 11-53-98 Date: 1/5/99
Applicability: 97~98 Legacy, Impreza, and Forester Manual Transmission vehicles with 2.5L & 2.2L engines.
Subject: Hesitation On acceleration

In the event you encounter a customer complaining of a slight engine hesitation between 1500~2500rpm’s when the engine is cold or hot, perform the following:

Eliminate all external influences, such s a incorrect or dirty air filter, loose or cracked intake duct, dirty fuel filter, low fuel pressure, PVC system, or low engine vacuum that would indicate an external leak or an internal engine component. Check for trouble codes and repair as necessary. Verify the fuel quality.

If all external components are confirmed to be operating within vehicle specifications, the hesitation may be caused by the ignition control logic in the ECM. Under certain low rpm driving patterns, the ignition control system can pick up engine vibrations through the knock sensor and may retard the ignition timing. This ignition timing is learned by the ECM and placed in memory. Note: This area of the memory can not be viewed by using the Select Monitor. When the vehicle is driven under these conditions, the timing may be retarded and could cause that engine to hesitate on acceleration. To confirm this condition, road test the vehicle while viewing the Knock Sensor Signal on the Select Monitor. If you duplicate the hesitation, and the reading on the monitor is around -10 Degrees, you will need to change the ECM to correct the concern.

Note: Some vehicles (shown on the following two charts) were produced with two different emission systems during the same model year. To identify which system you have, look at the Vehicle Identification Number. Refer to the chart to identify which system you have on the 98MY Forester and 97MY Impreza vehicles and choose the correct part number from the chart on the following page.

Back to Hesitation Page

I know that this applies in a different country but it may help.

BRendan

Meshwolf

Wouldn't a defunct wastegate solenoid give you surging?

/P

spudgun

nickw
sorry mate, i dont have this problem with the my00...i sold it 2 weeks ago
330ci sport is mine in 3 weeks time!!
in the REAL world i.e. traffic jams, speed cameras, old dears in metros, the 330ci is quick enough. plenty of torque, AND, its a dream to sit in.
i dont miss my my00. i will buy an older uk car ( maybe 95 model) or older sti in a few months for weekend/ fun use.
but if i had to choose between either car?
i hate to say it, but if i could only afford ONE car, it would HAVE to be the bmw. it just does so much more, so much better. oh, and not ALL the dealers are tossers, and not everyone who drives em are either ( just a lot of 'em )

Davej_Smith

I have an MY00 and have suffered hestitation since new, the problem is minor and seems worse when the engine is cold and the outside temperature is lower.

The car is standard turbo, was registered in November 2000 and has covered just over 5000 miles.

Performance compared to the demonstrator I drove is also poor, the car is visiting a dealer for its first 'real' service tommorrow....

The engine also 'hisses' quite noticebly from 3000rpm onwards, since this is my first turbo car I have always assumed this is normal ?

Lars

When people some Months ago started to write on this subject - hesitation, I was a happy guy, my MY99 with 35.000 km did not show any symptom on hesitation.

Two weeks later it started, around 3000 rpm it hesitated under acceleration.
During the last few weeks it has worsen, and during a trip Paris - Copenhagen last week, it ended up in no turbo pressure and a funny noice ( like a wind blowing) started. It was just like the hesitation, it started around 3000 rpm.
I checked the westgate and air flow and found that the hose clip (strap) on the air intake to the intercooler was loose. I just put it in place and tighten the screw.
GREAT everything back to normal.No hesitation and all 217 HK was back,
If you engine hesitate, check the air intake from turbo to engine for loose fasteners.

Regards Lars

IanWatson

I've had similar problems with my Dutch MY99 - nothing too dramatic, and only really noticable when cold. It makes those first few miles trying to keep it off-boost very frustrating.
Any way - point I wanted to make was that I had a Unichip fitted by Powerstation - thought it would cure the problem, but unfortunately if anything it's got slightly worse.

So I'd advise anyone who is considering buying one in the expectation that the problem will be solved to think again.

Buy it anyway, but only 'cos it increases the grin factor!!!

davel

There is a fix to the problem, apologies for the silence, bit I needed to ensure that my fix arrived and worked. It was obvious that there was no way Subaru were going to fix the problem with our cars. I therefore decided to get rid of the car and hence the problem. Despite my feelings about Subaru UK, I arranged a loan of an new age WRX for a week and decided to order one. The fact that I received a SUBSTANTIAL DISCOUNT arranged directly with Subaru UK had no bearing on the descision!!!.
The car arrived 1st July, WRC Blue with bucket seats. So far I like it, it is very different, but you need to live with it to get used to it. All I need not is a job to afford the petrol!!
Anybody wanting rid of the problem and able to afford a new car is well advised to try the same route. I dealt with John Sherwood at Subaru UK. Good luck to you all.

Dave

bob

davel/
Done the same thing but went for the P1. Have not looked back since.

DMB

Just a thought but do scoobys have lean surge like other makes??

ie between 2-3k rpm the engine mapping runs lean so as to pass the emissions laws as this is the range that the tests are carried out. Obviously by running lean this will cause a loss of performance under acceleration (noticable as hesitation / surging). This usually applies to performance cars that run the regulations close and is more noticable when they are cold or after a long run. As i say only a thought but this may be the characteristic IM are talking about??