Adam M

After almost three weeks of development from the gound up, my car has just been returned to me with its front mounted intercooler in place.

It was developed by pace as a version for air conditioned imprezas. Their previous version was not suitable as the much shorter pipework they utilise was impossible with the air con rad in place.

The whole outcome was an enormous front mount. Not as wide as hyperflow/aps etc, but a core area which is 25% bigger. It is the full width of the front grille but extends from just beneath bonnet line to bottom lip of bumper.

The pipework is not routed through the wings, or around the battery etc. Although it does deviate around the cone filter on my car. This gives rise to much lower volume which requires pressurising, theoretically meaning less lag than with other designs.

I will say, that although the core area is bigger to look at, it is only one tube thickness deep. This means it would theoretically generate a greater pressure drop than the other systems which have a larger cross sectional area and therefore less flow resistance. I have to say that as yet, I have not noticed any boost pressure diffferences between before and after intercoolers, and more importantly without any remapping (jecs ecu / ) I cant perceive any "extra" lag whatsoever. The only problema being, it has been so long since I drove a turbo charged car, that it is difficult to remember if tehre was any lag before.

All pipe work is constructed from aluminium, I dare say I can see the advantages of using silicon hosing, relating to heat etc.

The way the pipe work has been arranged has involved shifting the air con rad down and back to allow the pipes past, this was accomplished by fitting a shallower fan which replaces the two standard fan. strangely it now flows more air than it used to (the fan that is). The further help matters, due to placement of the front mount, the radiator has been replaced with a deeper alumium item. This is much more efficient than standard and so should keeps temps down.

Pace tested the car before and after and there results suggest that the intercooler at one bar of boost is reducing temps by 20 degrees compared with standard. This was measured using a K type probe just before the intake manifold.

at ambient of 24.9 temp was 59 degrees at 1 bar boost with top mount. at 26.4 degrees ambient, front mount yielded 40 degrees.

There will be more to come, as there is heat soaking from turbo, and I also plan to vent the bonnet more by removing te blocks from the vent, have to give it some thought also due to rain water falling directly on to air filter unless I am careful.

On the road, can only describe car as very very strong. Pulls very hard all the time.

only problem for me now, is that I am getting bored with exhaust note and fancy a change, any suggestions? just back box this time.

Thought this might be of interest to some people, so forgive longevity.

I havent ruled out trying aps or hyperflow yet, I really want to see some results first.

Will need some guages first before I can give people my own long term test results.

unfortunately cant do a rolling road before and after.

before was 303 and 279 torque, but other factors are going in (saturday), so it isnt gonna be fair to extract rolling road figures for comparison.

Fosters

What backbox have you got Adam?

Adam M

BPM twister mk 3. is v cool and seems to be flowing well.

Markus

Got any pictures to post up of the fmic?

Stuart Knight

iTrader: (2)

How about a scoop for your bonnet, stops rain dropping straight in!

Adam M

Rain cant get into my bonnet, my scoop is blocked off!!!!

Adam M

tried this last time and it didnt work so will have another go. if not, can someone give me their email address and I will send to them to host.

Nope, tried and failed. Will ask someone else. Cem, Pat?

[This message has been edited by Adam M (edited 26 July 2001).]

Sam Elassar

well done adam join the club. have pace done one eventually ?

the temperature setting you are getting sound pretty decent, very similar to what i get at cruise really. i am getting high 20s,low30s at around 1.3-1.4 bar using the same turbo as yours ( pressuming you still have a standard VF23 of course )

there is pros and cons for using Silicon and the same applies to Al. as well i think.

is this the same one that was intially designed by falkland performance. replacing the radiator and the intercooler with one big side by side design ? do the tubes come off the top of the bottom of the intercooler ?


sam

[This message has been edited by Sam Elassar (edited 26 July 2001).]

Adam M

Sam,

I have just bought an spa gauge for the inlet temps, but will not have readings for ambient.

Your figures seem a lot lower than mine bearing in mind you are running that boost, I can only assume it was on a much colder day since I was getting 40 at 1.0 bar.

Design is new from the ground up. No side by side anything. Rad is behind aircon rad which is behind intercooler.

aircon rad is lower for pipes to exit from top of intercooler over the top of both remaining rads. Pipes then go straight back from there either side of engine.

Having trouble posting them. If someone has 300k of space, I will email the jpegs! Unfortunatley they dont show that much, but there is enough to see whats going on.

Sam Elassar

hi adam, the only time i saw 40 degrees (39 actually ) was on the Rollers. the ambient temps inside the garage were around 25 degrees with not as much air movement as in the road. other wise the highest i see is 33-34 ? i think i completely miss read your post ooops. did they measure the temps on a rolling road ? maybe that is why they are a bit unusual.

if you email me you pics i will see if i can post them through my web site for you. there should be plenty of space available

sam

Sam Elassar

Sam Elassar

just like that

WREXY

Good one Adam. looks like a decent kit. I bet there is some awesome power with the addition of the FMIC giving you a huge grin when putting the foot down. Looking forward to the results in the future.

WREXY.

Adam M

my turbo does remain standard for now. VF23 on 22B. Not going to last long I am afraid.

Sam Elassar

so what next apart from the turbo

Stuart Knight

iTrader: (2)

Adam,

you missed the point I think. Have a look at my website!!!

Adam M

Sam, I would rather have such discussions off line. I have posted this as pace will be selling the kit in future.

I am dubious about the temperatures at the moment given your results and will be looking at my own results very carefully, once the gauges are in.

I am very surprised to see your results not changing much between cruise and max boost given the temp difference output by the turbo. saying that, the heat flow from radiation is driven by the fourth power of the temperature minus the fourth power of the ambient temperature.

Adam M

Stuart,

still not sure how I have missed the point?

My vents will be ussed to allow hot air out, not force cold air in, I need to prevent positive pressure from the scoop and vents such as your would add to this.

in the case of a top mounted intercooler yours would be great for a ram effect air to the air filter, but alas it cannot be utilised on my car.

My scoop has been blocked for the same reason. Positive pressure in engine bay behind rads, reduced the flow of air throught the intercooler, air con and water rad cores.

EvilBevel

Sam, those temps you quote seem very, very low, and may actually loose you power ...

40°'s on full chat is as good as it gets, I understood you don't want any lower.

Adam M

theo.

theoretically, for ideal combustion, 40 degrees is just about perfect. But lower temps although less than perfect allow you to run more boost without risking det. Therefore, the increase you get from the extra boost outweighs the non ideal temperature.

in the same way, water injection alone removes power, but allows you to run more advance, and in so doing, more than restore the lost power.

EvilBevel

Adam, that's how I understood it works, glad to see it confirmed.

However, running 1.3 to 1.4 bar - the boost Sam quoted running during the measurements -on a VF23 is about as high as you want to go, no ? OK, I realize you should see boost curve, and not peaks, but I don't think I would like to go higher with that turbo even in the midrange RPM.

Thus, mostly, the charge temps are too low

Adam M

theo you are right.

At this point, if sam is not raising his boost, he "should" actually see an increase in power by restricting the cooling power of the intercooler. Perhaps a big number plate in the way.

One thing, even running at 1.3 bar, lower temp is a trade off of safety against power. Sam has plenty power (now) so i would rather have a buffer of safety!

EvilBevel

Adam, funny this:

>>lower temp is a trade off of safety against power

I was just trying to explain to Sam in the other thread about the Unichip that you don't need to really search the (detting) limits to tune a car.

Sam Elassar

lower temps, is denser air, so more fuel could be added and more advance = a lot quicker. if i start seeing 40 degrees i will probably get water injection.

it is not all just boost you know

GavinP

Adam,

The pipe which goes round the air filter is that the outlet from the turbo or the inlet to the manifold ?

I have fitted a temp monitor to measure under bonnet heat/air filter air and it seems to match the intake air pretty closely on my setup (chargecooler).

I have a turbo blanket on the TD05 which I got from

coyote

Adam,

Have you thought about turning your bonnet scoop around so that it faces the other way?

I've not seen it done before but have been thinking about the benifits (and how silly it might look) for a few months now.

MorayMackenzie

Having been out in Adam's car last night I can confirm that the intercooler has made quite a difference. Beforehand the car felt exactly plenty much strong but now it feels precisely plenty much plenty strong, giving at least a plenty increase in percieved (sp?) strength.

Adam M

coyote.

Apparently due to the rake of the windscreen, there is a poitive pressure at that point, meaning that air will still blow in rather than flow out. I would be better off removing the scoop all together, to encourage air to flow out underneath the car.

As it stands the scoop is fully blocked off.

Looks wise I would rather keep it that way.

Adam M

Gavin, that pipe is the outlet from the intercooler and goes into the intake manifold. The water injection is sprayed directly before the throttle body.

Adam M

Moray, i before e except after c = perceived.

Thanks for compliment.

Sam,

have now spoken to pace, and temperature of 40 degrees was measured with certified accurate equipment. The 1.0 bar achieved was at max load whilst braking too to induce higher temps. So should be representative of track use.

Temperatures at cruise were around the 23 degrees mark. Not bad for an ambient of 26.4.

Needless to say I am pleased having spoken to Jon at pace who was very helpful.

I have requested some more photographs displaying the radiator setup, but all who saw it last night, moray, pat, chuck, R19KET, and blowdog were impressed with teh set up. is very clean and could almost be factory in finish. Pace logos make things look smart too.

I have given Jon this web address, so if there are any questions regarding the system, post them here, and he will answer.

Needless to say my mind is at rest now having spoken to someone in the know.