4.5 CONVERSION better than 2.5??
22 September 2004, 01:09 PM
#1
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4.5 CONVERSION better than 2.5??
you could be a little maverick and source an AJP v8 (TVR) 4.2 - only 21 inch cube and all alloy - cant cost any more than going 2.5 route- no lag - adequate power - best part of 400 ft lb - make bellhousing adapter - recoup development cost by selling copies on scoobynet - sump clearance? - length, height and weight should all be ok - make the ultimate Impreza hybrid?
Or use the 4.5 AJP with Red Rose upgrade in a new shape 6 speed with over 450lb ft and trounce the new EVO 400 FQ - not to mention a Pagani Zonda or two....
Dreaming? - Perhaps not? - All the intercooler and turbo costs and probs vanish - the engine comes complete and doesnt need upgrading - fantastic throttle response and therefore chassis adjustability when sliding (no turbo rush to anticipate)
Come on you top tuners - think outside the box and be a little radical - TVR Power can even supply with fully mapped Nitrous if you want over 500 bhp...................
Or use the 4.5 AJP with Red Rose upgrade in a new shape 6 speed with over 450lb ft and trounce the new EVO 400 FQ - not to mention a Pagani Zonda or two....
Dreaming? - Perhaps not? - All the intercooler and turbo costs and probs vanish - the engine comes complete and doesnt need upgrading - fantastic throttle response and therefore chassis adjustability when sliding (no turbo rush to anticipate)
Come on you top tuners - think outside the box and be a little radical - TVR Power can even supply with fully mapped Nitrous if you want over 500 bhp...................
22 September 2004, 02:03 PM
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LOL at John. Rodney but Lionel, as they say darn sarf. Shame, as it's a cracking motor (no pun intended). That Russian chappie has got a job on his hands.
Industry sources confide that the FQ400 ain't exactly bullet-proof, either...
Industry sources confide that the FQ400 ain't exactly bullet-proof, either...
22 September 2004, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by john banks
I think the AJP would be even less reliable than a Subaru engine?
but would look truly cool under that there scoop..
22 September 2004, 04:09 PM
#7
I like the Idea, I'm fed up with turbo's. I was thinking along the lines of a charge cooled, supercharged EJ22 when my engine finally gives up the ghost.
However the cerbera has the borg warner T5 gearbox, with that in mind why not a 6-speed sequential and rwd
Dave
However the cerbera has the borg warner T5 gearbox, with that in mind why not a 6-speed sequential and rwd
Dave
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22 September 2004, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by RB5_245
I like the Idea, I'm fed up with turbo's. I was thinking along the lines of a charge cooled, supercharged EJ22 when my engine finally gives up the ghost.
However the cerbera has the borg warner T5 gearbox, with that in mind why not a 6-speed sequential and rwd
Dave
However the cerbera has the borg warner T5 gearbox, with that in mind why not a 6-speed sequential and rwd
Dave
lag free
lovely neat installation would reveal engine layout better rather than being covered in I/C, turbo pipery etc
torque on demand
Go on, go on, go on - somebody?!
22 September 2004, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by RB5_245
I like the Idea, I'm fed up with turbo's. I was thinking along the lines of a charge cooled, supercharged EJ22 when my engine finally gives up the ghost.
However the cerbera has the borg warner T5 gearbox, with that in mind why not a 6-speed sequential and rwd
Dave
However the cerbera has the borg warner T5 gearbox, with that in mind why not a 6-speed sequential and rwd
Dave
Alternatively - modern supercharger on a 2.5 US block could be v intersting?!
22 September 2004, 04:41 PM
#12
I was thinking centrifugal blower on a 2.2 with very high rev limit. Limited exh back pressure from no turbo, and very short piping through a charge cooler should see a nice car to drive.
A Roots blower on a 2.5 would go nice too but if you're running out of puff at around 5-5.5k rpm the gearing of any sensibly priced box would be too low I'd think. I'd rather go for the 2.2 with a (hopefully) 8.5k rev limit.
Dave
A Roots blower on a 2.5 would go nice too but if you're running out of puff at around 5-5.5k rpm the gearing of any sensibly priced box would be too low I'd think. I'd rather go for the 2.2 with a (hopefully) 8.5k rev limit.
Dave
22 September 2004, 04:54 PM
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Not sure our cranks are up to driving a heavy duty supercharger?
Not sure you'd get the midrange torque that makes Scoobies so much fun?
With a 2.5 if you only want 450 BHP or thereabouts, you don't have to put up with much lag.... I whinged a bit about my iON turbo because I was spoilt by the 20G, and I still think you get more power for your lag out of the 20G, but with careful heat management and an AVC-R it isn't feeling so bad now with 1 bar at about 2750 RPM.
Not sure you'd get the midrange torque that makes Scoobies so much fun?
With a 2.5 if you only want 450 BHP or thereabouts, you don't have to put up with much lag.... I whinged a bit about my iON turbo because I was spoilt by the 20G, and I still think you get more power for your lag out of the 20G, but with careful heat management and an AVC-R it isn't feeling so bad now with 1 bar at about 2750 RPM.
22 September 2004, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by RB5_245
I was thinking centrifugal blower on a 2.2 with very high rev limit. Limited exh back pressure from no turbo, and very short piping through a charge cooler should see a nice car to drive.
A Roots blower on a 2.5 would go nice too but if you're running out of puff at around 5-5.5k rpm the gearing of any sensibly priced box would be too low I'd think. I'd rather go for the 2.2 with a (hopefully) 8.5k rev limit.
Dave
A Roots blower on a 2.5 would go nice too but if you're running out of puff at around 5-5.5k rpm the gearing of any sensibly priced box would be too low I'd think. I'd rather go for the 2.2 with a (hopefully) 8.5k rev limit.
Dave
22 September 2004, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by john banks
Not sure our cranks are up to driving a heavy duty supercharger?
Not sure you'd get the midrange torque that makes Scoobies so much fun?
With a 2.5 if you only want 450 BHP or thereabouts, you don't have to put up with much lag.... I whinged a bit about my iON turbo because I was spoilt by the 20G, and I still think you get more power for your lag out of the 20G, but with careful heat management and an AVC-R it isn't feeling so bad now with 1 bar at about 2750 RPM.
Not sure you'd get the midrange torque that makes Scoobies so much fun?
With a 2.5 if you only want 450 BHP or thereabouts, you don't have to put up with much lag.... I whinged a bit about my iON turbo because I was spoilt by the 20G, and I still think you get more power for your lag out of the 20G, but with careful heat management and an AVC-R it isn't feeling so bad now with 1 bar at about 2750 RPM.
400bhp + with v low lag sounds fine to me - whats involved using new age Blob as base - realistic cost?
22 September 2004, 05:22 PM
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New age blob 2.5 turbo:
EJ257 £1200
Headgaskets £110
Cam belt and tensioner £150
Oil and coolant £50
Six speed box £2000
Clutch £300
Fuel pump £130
TD05-20G turbo £800
550cc injectors £250-300
Remap £650
3 port solenoid £30
Boost gauge, AFR meter, knocklink, oil pressure/temp £400
STi intercooler £250, big scoop possibly
Spark plugs £35
Cone filter kit £80
Exhaust manifold and uppipe £300
Full exhaust £500
Reroute breathers, throttle body coolant recirculate mod
£7235 plus labour
EJ257 £1200
Headgaskets £110
Cam belt and tensioner £150
Oil and coolant £50
Six speed box £2000
Clutch £300
Fuel pump £130
TD05-20G turbo £800
550cc injectors £250-300
Remap £650
3 port solenoid £30
Boost gauge, AFR meter, knocklink, oil pressure/temp £400
STi intercooler £250, big scoop possibly
Spark plugs £35
Cone filter kit £80
Exhaust manifold and uppipe £300
Full exhaust £500
Reroute breathers, throttle body coolant recirculate mod
£7235 plus labour
22 September 2004, 05:32 PM
#22
I hadn't really put too much thought into build cost. I know my engine is not going to last forever (6 months would be enough ). When It does go I'm going to be going for a 2.2 anyway. The main costs are going to be new exh system, the charger it's self and charge cooler. If you were building a turbo from scratch you'd be looking at similar costs I reckon (just a lot less work).
I can have the use of a full workshop, and plenty of spare time so that's plausible.
As for the crank, I'd hope a steel crank would hold up to it. Maybe put too much pressure on already too small bearings though.
Power wise, If it drove like an n/a car I'd settle for 400bhp. As it stands I have 3 options. 2.2 turbo at around 500bhp, supercharger and see how it goes, or see what can be done with an n/a engine (250bhp? probably far too slow for me).
The third one might sound a bit stupid, but there's no way you'll find a better noise than a boxer 4 on throttle bodies.
Anyway that's completely off topic. The AJP sounds interesting, but I could not be done with messing about with the wiring loom and all the instrumentation. I also have no idea on where to start with that adaptor plate.
Dave
). When It does go I'm going to be going for a 2.2 anyway. The main costs are going to be new exh system, the charger it's self and charge cooler. If you were building a turbo from scratch you'd be looking at similar costs I reckon (just a lot less work).I can have the use of a full workshop, and plenty of spare time so that's plausible.
As for the crank, I'd hope a steel crank would hold up to it. Maybe put too much pressure on already too small bearings though.
Power wise, If it drove like an n/a car I'd settle for 400bhp. As it stands I have 3 options. 2.2 turbo at around 500bhp, supercharger and see how it goes, or see what can be done with an n/a engine (250bhp? probably far too slow for me).
The third one might sound a bit stupid, but there's no way you'll find a better noise than a boxer 4 on throttle bodies.
Anyway that's completely off topic. The AJP sounds interesting, but I could not be done with messing about with the wiring loom and all the instrumentation. I also have no idea on where to start with that adaptor plate.
Dave
22 September 2004, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by john banks
New age blob 2.5 turbo:
EJ257 £1200
Headgaskets £110
Cam belt and tensioner £150
Oil and coolant £50
Six speed box £2000
Clutch £300
Fuel pump £130
TD05-20G turbo £800
550cc injectors £250-300
Remap £650
3 port solenoid £30
Boost gauge, AFR meter, knocklink, oil pressure/temp £400
STi intercooler £250, big scoop possibly
Spark plugs £35
Cone filter kit £80
Exhaust manifold and uppipe £300
Full exhaust £500
Reroute breathers, throttle body coolant recirculate mod
£7235 plus labour
EJ257 £1200
Headgaskets £110
Cam belt and tensioner £150
Oil and coolant £50
Six speed box £2000
Clutch £300
Fuel pump £130
TD05-20G turbo £800
550cc injectors £250-300
Remap £650
3 port solenoid £30
Boost gauge, AFR meter, knocklink, oil pressure/temp £400
STi intercooler £250, big scoop possibly
Spark plugs £35
Cone filter kit £80
Exhaust manifold and uppipe £300
Full exhaust £500
Reroute breathers, throttle body coolant recirculate mod
£7235 plus labour
22 September 2004, 06:08 PM
#25
A flat 6 Porsche, 3.8 litres.
No blower, no pipes, a bit of water cooling. Massive torque, all aluminium and a whole engine with ecu costs about 3K
And what a sound track.....
Height of the motor a bit tricky and dry sump comes standard, bit of trickery there too!
Short wide motor, mega reliable and about 30 mpg if your a wimp on the accellerator.
Better proposition?
If you need a bit more there is always the 3.6 turbo, 500 bhp, AND it has a TMIC!
Hmmmmmmm
911
No blower, no pipes, a bit of water cooling. Massive torque, all aluminium and a whole engine with ecu costs about 3K
And what a sound track.....
Height of the motor a bit tricky and dry sump comes standard, bit of trickery there too!
Short wide motor, mega reliable and about 30 mpg if your a wimp on the accellerator.
Better proposition?
If you need a bit more there is always the 3.6 turbo, 500 bhp, AND it has a TMIC!
Hmmmmmmm
911
22 September 2004, 06:32 PM
#28
Put me straight into Sports Libre = Metro 6r4, Pilbeam country.
But it is an interesting thought!
Must concentrate on the mod, must concentrate on the mods.........no distractions!
When I was (much) younger I used to build hot rods with Rover V8's in 30's chassis, so not afraid...........
911
But it is an interesting thought!
Must concentrate on the mod, must concentrate on the mods.........no distractions!
When I was (much) younger I used to build hot rods with Rover V8's in 30's chassis, so not afraid...........
911
22 September 2004, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 911
A flat 6 Porsche, 3.8 litres.
No blower, no pipes, a bit of water cooling. Massive torque, all aluminium and a whole engine with ecu costs about 3K
And what a sound track.....
Height of the motor a bit tricky and dry sump comes standard, bit of trickery there too!
Short wide motor, mega reliable and about 30 mpg if your a wimp on the accellerator.
Better proposition?
If you need a bit more there is always the 3.6 turbo, 500 bhp, AND it has a TMIC!
Hmmmmmmm
911
No blower, no pipes, a bit of water cooling. Massive torque, all aluminium and a whole engine with ecu costs about 3K
And what a sound track.....
Height of the motor a bit tricky and dry sump comes standard, bit of trickery there too!
Short wide motor, mega reliable and about 30 mpg if your a wimp on the accellerator.
Better proposition?
If you need a bit more there is always the 3.6 turbo, 500 bhp, AND it has a TMIC!
Hmmmmmmm
911
......jus bout ta say, dont subaru already do a 3 litre flat 6 ............svx.?...