911

For my hill climber next year i am looking for 360bhp/310 ish lbft to keep the 5 speeder intact.
Do i need a FMIC? The engine needs to deliver seriously for just 60 seconds during a competitive run. I have water spray on the TMIC.
Engine spec will be Apexi/AndyF turbo (etc)

911

john banks

I would say no, it will only reduce throttle response and put more weight over the front. An STi new age IC and scoop would be nice?

911

Thanks for the response John. You mean an Stiv8 TMIC? For the cost of a FMIC you can have a co2 rail cooling system from Demon Tweeks, and the TMIC...or...
thinking maybe fitting a twin fan over the current V3 TMIC. The one 911's have for the front wing mounted oil cooler is the right size/capacity.

911

Pavlo

as john says

911

Thanks guy's, saved me spending £600 which can go to the 6 speeder.

911

The Fixer

Fit the STi version 8 Intercooler and a nice N2 spray bar, cheaper places than demontweeks though

911

Conrad, does the v8 bolt onto a v3 engine? (especially if it has a TD05).
What do they sell for today? £300??

911

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

You can get a STI 5 TMIC on with a bit of work, but an STI 8? not sure with the phase 1 inlet manifold - has anyone managed this?

911

I'm sure I've read on Snet somewhere that the Sti V7/V8TMIC is a good upgrade to the V3 Sti.
I'm tempted simply to put Co2 spray on my V3, so leaving the dump valve etc all simple and stock.
911

dij

This sounds like the best solution IMO.

BTW,please dont stop asking your questions,they usualy have very informative answers.

The Fixer

I seem to remember that somebody said the ver8 intercooler is nigh on impossible to fit with the phase I manifold, the front edge of the intercooler is up against the manifold where the throttle body should sit. They work fine with phase II by all accounts. They sell s/h for £300 ish.

Conrad

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

Conrad, which phase 1 manifold are we talking about though? IIRC the version 3 has what I call a phase 1.5 manifold (coil pack mounted on top in the middle), with the larger straight intercooler not too disimilar to those fitted to phase 2 engined cars. The throtle body on these is considerably smaller than the early phase 1 engined cars. I think there's probably room for the version 8 intercooler.

AndrewC

There are at least 2 STi4s I know of running around with STi8 TMICs, one of them is Martin Fox's rally car (mef on 22B).

Andrew...

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

rather than looking at the cryo system, think more along the lines of NOS sprayed onto the i/c.
co2 will serve to remove oxygen from the engine bay and may have an adverse effect on the induction if sprayed to soon to use (ie you may need to apply spray a fair few seconds before pulling away), with NOS however you are able to use it without the oxygen starvation efect or whatever its called.

as for the fans, its a good idea that Ive been looking at, PACET do a nice set of fans but as yet they havent supplied me with the flow charecteristics chart.
they come in all sizes and are switchable from push to pull.
might be better to use a rad fan system and have it pulling air from the scoop over the i/c, coupled with NOS youll be the coolest bloke on the hill (pun intended)

The Fixer

Yes I believe phase 1.5 are fine with STi top mount intercooler. NOS is a better option for cooling intercooler without doubt. Can supply kit if required.

911

OK. Conrad, can you send details by pm if you wish on nos plumbing system. i will keep it all very simple, ie manual switch on/off so a minute before the run I can drown the TMIC with 'whatever' to chill it (no body who knows me would call me the coolest guy on the hill!), but i would need to leave it on for the full hill run, ie about 60 seconds. That discharge time raises a few questions:
1 Will a bottle last 5 x that long as I do 5 runs in a hill climb event
2 Will the IC become an iceburg in that time!
3 Will flooding the engine bay with nos be safe? Co2 would be.

Note I will use a panel filter not a cone/mushroom so air come to the maf via the wing cavity not the engine bay.

As ever thanks for taking the time to help a Scooby racer novice.

911

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

911,
my advice is that co2 is a pretty bad thing as it will find all the oxygen available in the area and remove it.
leaving the nos on for a minute is a long time thats for sure.
might be better to have the nos spray for say a five to ten second burst before the start, and then back this up with a conventional waterspray system during the run.
failing that, what about the autospeed intelligent waterspray system switch which is advertised on the scoobyshop for about £80.

this could be linked to a solenoid on the NOS which would automatically trigger it when the car requires it rather than leave it on permanetly (which is wasteful).
personally, I intend to link the nos system to a sprung toggle switch to start with, that way I can hold the switch open for NOS spray and then when it releases it will auto shut off.

I dont think you'll need a long spray time to drastically reduce temps over the i/c.
certainly not over a long duration like a minute.

Andy

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

How will CO2 remove Oxygen? it's stable, unlike CO which would do this, or C03 which is very unstable and is created in the presence of Ozone (so no electric sparks under the bonnet please

C02 is more dense and will flow out of the engine bay quickly, I would be happier seeing that sprayed around than N2O which is an accelerant afterall...and could anaethetise the driver if things went very wrong

C02 is also far cheaper than N20 when it comes to fill ups

911

It all happens very quickly in a hill climb, so no chance of switching on/off during a run, but I didn't realise you could get some 'auto switching' so cheaply!
If the spray comes on it will need to quench the TMIC VERY quickly which is why i choose to stay with the Sti v3 unit as it is very light so cools down fast!
Maybe the best solution is to switch on and have a (variable set) time of discharge then off.
So, 10 secs before the off, and 10 secs after Off.

Will that chill the bugger?

911

TopBanana

How about compressed air instead? Not as cold though

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

The really cheap option is to fill your intercooler water spray bottle with ice, and put crushed ice on the intercooler...

I managed to shave about 0.25 of a second off my 1/4 time at S'pod by soaking my intercooler with cold water before a run...

911

The benefit of Co2 is that you can get a bottle easy, ie Halfords. Not too heavy in itself and simple to install, bottle in passenger foot well.
I had a thread about a year ago that developed into a full scale debate on IC cooling, and Co2 won then!
So:

Sti v3 TMIC, low lag, dv in place, and its there!
Co2 'ring' on top of above, tubed to the Halfords Co2 bottle
Tricky switch with timer built in to discharge for, say, 15 secs at the start of a hill climb.

Not so bad...

911

hugo

Wouldn't a charge cooler be useful for this application? Would it not provide you with a big heat sink to deal with providing constantly cool charge for the duration of a hill climb? (relative novice here...be gentle!)

Andy.F

You have to take care with this at any MSA events though, if a marshall or scrute' sees something dripping from the car he is highly likely to stop your run

Andy

911

Tim W, done all that. Amuses the spectators in the paddock, but as Andy correctly says, any dripping water will stop your run automatically!
We put ice in the reservior and quench the TMIC with loads of water, leave the bonnet open untill the last moment while the engine is warmed-up.

This is why the co2 is of interest. Going to the Porsche club's autojumble today to try to find an oil cooler fan unit for the tMIC also.

Hugo, you may be correct, but nobody else bothers, so I presume there is little benefit, and it adds weight. Mind you, so does all the above!

911

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

I didn't know that, but I can see why they wouldn't like that to happen.

911

Andy, if you are following this thread, can you check your email please, I'm finally ready to get parts for next season, but i need your advice on which turbo to spec off you.
911