2.5STI

shall i get a front mount for my scoob or wat...wat power gains will i get...
wats the best (cheapest) fmic??


help

oh and will i need a remap?

thanks

Tidgy

to prevent lag you'll need a remap, depending on if you've had one already will depend on if its a tweek or a full map.

expect to pay about £650 ish + vat for a decnt one (which is fitted price) failing that you can get em for around £200 isha nd fit them yourself, although its a pain and involves cutting holes in the wing and cutting the front bumper.

Ibiza_Cupra

mine was £500 i think and fitted it myself !

Coffin Dodger

Don't forget a dump valve as well, best mod money can buy

Grrrrr psssst grrrrrr psssst grrrrr pssssst

Makes the girlies down the local Maccy Dees moist when they hear it comin from half a mile away

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

no power gains whatsoever, cooler intake, lloks better, but I dont think,if there are any minute gains, that you would notice them.

Tidgy

you get flutter if you fit one to a front mounted car

sounds awesome

more like PSSST PSSSt PSSst PSsst Pssst pssst

Bat-Fink

Get a ACT gauge first and see what it's running at without a FMIC before wasting money.

GazTheHat

Only in that because it's cooler the mapper can extract a bit more power.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

very well said

most of the fleabay FMIC will probably cost you power. even the expensive ones are dubious to the advantages unless mapped to take advantage.

get the facts first like Bat-Fink says

redragon

read this












tells you all you need to know

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

wow 14.1 bhp advantage from:

1.2 bar compared to stock .9 bar from TMIC's
Induction Kit
Map by Pat

£1000 costs

and a less driveable car

Hardly worth it I would say

specialx

less drivable. In what way?

Hardly worth it.

1x Front mount Core pipe work & hoses
1x technician all day fitting and modifying bumper carrier etc, etc
1 x bodyshop staff adapting front bumper

all supplied and fitted with warranty not bad for a grand I think.


Fitting a front mounted intercooler is never going to be a cheap modification when done profesionally but the case for one is overwhelming, not so much for bhp gains but intake temps. A proper enthusiast must admit anything that asists in cooling the engine has got to be a good thing.

I had a bastism of fire when getting my first scoob as it came with a fmic so had no point of reference regard a top mount it just went like f*** but now I have a tmic on my current car and cannot really see what all this lag fuss is all about I just adapted my driving style.

We have a top mount running on our SC450 demo car as a daily drive but a front mount on the Drag car so it really is down to preference and what works!

it's not all about what you can get for the cheapest price!

Ads

Dazza01

I would have to agree there, specially when you end up with 383bhp / 365 ft lbs

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

less driveable - I think you answered your own question

not disputing costs... dont mind spending money at all if the results are worth it and I am not saying that isnt but for £1000 I would want slightly more conclusive results i think

specialx

try one then!


we don't need to dig up the threads on does fmic make it a less drivable car do we?

chrisp77

iTrader: (3)

with a map and a few other choice mods, would this make the car more drivable

like smoother power delivery??

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Why wasn't the STi IC tested?
One of the best ICs out there and yet costs far cheaper than any of the Scoobyclinic products.
Any details on temp sensors, their mounting location and how cables were trailed around, especially for the TMICs?

Nick

specialx

When we were approached by jap performance mag they wanted a WRX to test appealing toward the standard wrx owner.

The temp prob was behind the throttle body.

Now that you have mentioned it though we will have to run the same tests with the STI intercooler.


Ads

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

I am sure the probe location is the right place as I have mine there - would have been interesting to see the STi IC results though.

Ads - dont get me wrong I am not disputing that it does a fine charge cooling job, but there are other options I believe and these werent tested either.

redragon

why would you say its hardly worth it and a less driveable car... i used to think a fmic wasnt worth it but when i first drove it after it was fitted wow was i wrong. and as its my daily drive it has to be very driveable which it is. so all in all well worth the cost

Butty

iTrader: (2)

I'd really recommend that the sensor wire is placed directly into the TMIC hose to throttle body.
Tucking the cable under the hose by the IC still allows the thermocouple to pick up additional heat from metal.
The problem is compounded by a thin t/couple sensor wire and lack of insulation on it, plus poor routing of the wire across the top of heat sources.

Try a 2mm hole drilled in the hose and poke a thick insulated t/couple through then seal with superglue.

NIck

Tidgy

y is it on SN no mater how a test/mod is done theres always people jumping on moaning, saying you wanna do this you wanna do that, you shoulda done this you shoulda done that, you should have tested this you should have tested that.

you can't test every article in the same test. the fact that all the IC were tested at exactly the same point each time maks the test fair.

and further to that, on a cold day it make a huge difference but, temps on a hot day would be much much higher, and build quicker, so you could argue that on a hot day even more difference would be seen.




can some one please build me a brick wall next to my desk so i can bang my head against it please

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Tidgy,
Its not only on SN, its in all walks of product marketing.

Scant regard is spent in planning the testing method correctly, since its not very sexy and takes up space in an article to describe it.
My dig wasn't meant to be at the Clinic but at magazines trying to carry out pseudoscientific tests.

If you are happy to take in everything that is in an article then go ahead and spend your money.
I'm not sure I can supply a brick wall but I could splash out on some blinkers.

nick

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

I don't think anyone has mentioned that if you want xxx BHP for a minute or so then stay TMIC. If you want your xxx BHP for 30 mins on track an FMIC is the way to go

Tidgy

well if an article said top mount, front mount uprated top mount, some poeple would say eh??? what??

didn't mean, as in have a go at clinic, just things in general, no mater who does the test theres always people who have to slag it off, supose its the way of life.

do you have a front mount butty?

its all very well having 280bhp, but if you loose 50bhp because the top mount is heatsoaked after 2 mins you may have well have bought a civic.

high inlet temps are a reality in dragging down performance, noe one disputs that, also the top mounts are know to get heat soaed, no one disputes that ither, yet a front mount, which doesn't get heat soaked, is a waste of money?

its not all about the final figures, try it on a hot day and see what happens

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

but how many of the people on here actually take their car on track?

sure some do, but most will lap up this kind of report as number one on the checklist for modifying their car - and will see a big hole in their wallet, more turbo lag, a modified bumper and a car that will depreciate a lot more because it has been extensively modded. It will look good though

I do go on track regularly and know the effect of track use on charge temps - it has a dramatic effect of torque/power and reliability of the engine. But so many people here would be looking at FMIC as an instant large power gain... it isnt as proven by the test results. Sure they showed higher bhp/torque but as has been said in very detailled threads on dyno results, these can vary a lot in between runs for no apparent reason. Prodrive themselves admitted a 20bhp variance in one day on the same rollers without touching the car !

Personally i think FMIC is the way that I will go eventually but it is not the only solution to the problem of charge temperatures. Think of Nitrous, Water/alcohol Injection, Cryogenic coolers, air induction mods to name but a few.

Like was said earlier, I would love to see the std STi TMIC go through the same test and also to understand why the likes of lichfields stick with TMIC for the type 25.

Tidgy

most of the other systems that are as effective (cos most don't have huge gains in cooling) will run out and need refilling.

o sorry mr fast car i can't play anymore i've run out of water/nitrous.

IRRC, once mapped correctly they were talking milliseconds of lag increase, so not enough to notice

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Tidgy,

I've got an STi IC mounted on a VF35 1.4 bar 335hp WRX.
I did weigh up having a front mount, but as the car is not used for any dragging, my target BHP, the cost and the hassle of installation put me off.

I also have a t/couple charge temp sensor mounted in the correct place and access to works temperature reading equipment.

Yup, I've seen heatsoak is a problem for 200 yards after pulling away. In heavy traffic, I've seen the charge temp up to over 62 deg at standstill.
Once on the move the picture is totaly changed, as I've found from looking at WOT and a track session this summer.

But what do you think is happening to the metal pipework from the FMIC to the throttle body in traffic though?
The FMIC may be isolated from heat input, stuck way out in front of the car and sure enough, the immediate charge temp from it is bound to be very low.

Then look at the number of FMICs installed without pipe insulation? All that money spent yet only half a job done.


If the method of testing isn't shown or can be shown to be flawed then people will always dispute the results.
The simple solution is to describe the test method.
The difficult part is getting publishers not to edit out such unsexy text.

Nick

Tidgy

well if you havn't tried one then isn't that blinkers on??????????

put your car on a dyno on a hot day and see if its still running 335bhp. won't even be close to it, and there in is the problem.

power will still be slightly down on a front mount but no where near as much as top mount

Tidgy

well if you havn't tried one then isn't that blinkers on??????????

put your car on a dyno on a hot day and see if its still running 335bhp. won't even be close to it, and there in is the problem.

power will still be slightly down on a front mount but no where near as much as top mount