Classic with PPG gearing...opinions please
#1
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Classic with PPG gearing...opinions please
Im planning my upgrades at the moment and will need to sort out the gearbox eventually to cope with the power...
I dont know if i really want a 6 speeder and was wondering if getting my box serviced/reconditioned and upgraded with PPG gears 1-4, leaving 5 as normal.
Opinions please...especially if you already have this done...
I dont know if i really want a 6 speeder and was wondering if getting my box serviced/reconditioned and upgraded with PPG gears 1-4, leaving 5 as normal.
Opinions please...especially if you already have this done...
#2
Only my opinion as I went into all this 12 months ago.
IMHO:
If your car is a road only car with a strong engine torque of 350+ lbft then the 6 speeder would be very civilised though a bit frantic through 1 to 4th.
There is a substantial weight gain too (30Kg or so)
Price fitted = about £2K+ (DIY about 1600)
If your car is more race event inspired then the ppg is a great way forward as there is a good choice of options.
Weight is about the same, just 5 gears to pace through.
Cost though is greater, about £2800 for the box but you save on the rear diff as the conversion uses the existing front diff.
If your current box/diff is ok you can sell and offset the cost a little with the 6 speeder.
My Sti is a road driven competition car, so for me it will be a ppg straight cut on synchro with steel selectors and new rings etc, About £3K.
Graham
IMHO:
If your car is a road only car with a strong engine torque of 350+ lbft then the 6 speeder would be very civilised though a bit frantic through 1 to 4th.
There is a substantial weight gain too (30Kg or so)
Price fitted = about £2K+ (DIY about 1600)
If your car is more race event inspired then the ppg is a great way forward as there is a good choice of options.
Weight is about the same, just 5 gears to pace through.
Cost though is greater, about £2800 for the box but you save on the rear diff as the conversion uses the existing front diff.
If your current box/diff is ok you can sell and offset the cost a little with the 6 speeder.
My Sti is a road driven competition car, so for me it will be a ppg straight cut on synchro with steel selectors and new rings etc, About £3K.
Graham
#4
It is the dilema everyone eventually ends up with where the ppg is the same cost as the 6 speeder.
A friend a year or so ago bought a 6 speeder/diff/prop/shifter (etc) for £1400.
A bargain to say the least, so they can be found sometimes.
Graham
A friend a year or so ago bought a 6 speeder/diff/prop/shifter (etc) for £1400.
A bargain to say the least, so they can be found sometimes.
Graham
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Hmm ok, ive just sent some details off to David at API. Ill see what he comes back with and make a decision then...
How much torque will a 6 speeder take before turning to porridge?
How much torque will a 6 speeder take before turning to porridge?
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Im fitting my 6 speeder on monday,power wise it will be coping(hopefully) with 395 bhp and 420 torque. I have been told that this should be fine.
I also was going to go down the ppg route but thought that the 6 speed box would be a better option for me as it will be a day to day car,and as 911 said,it will be abit more civilised, but we will see.
Dannytwo
I also was going to go down the ppg route but thought that the 6 speed box would be a better option for me as it will be a day to day car,and as 911 said,it will be abit more civilised, but we will see.
Dannytwo
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#8
Hi
I'm runninng the 5 speed helical PPG kit and it is very good. Very positive gear changes and next to no noise (as opposed to the straight cut which I suspect dannytwo is referring to). The car is in use daily driving the kids to school.
Cheers
I'm runninng the 5 speed helical PPG kit and it is very good. Very positive gear changes and next to no noise (as opposed to the straight cut which I suspect dannytwo is referring to). The car is in use daily driving the kids to school.
Cheers
#10
Had the straight cut on the car for a while and I personally didnt find the sound that bad (other half hated it - and it is VERY noisy from outside). Did initially think about soundproofing it (website called noisekiller will wrap gearboxes to reduce noise - apparently quite popular with landies) but eventually went for the helical kit.
#12
I'm running the standard Type R V5 box with Redline Heavy Shockproof and the car is producing 423bhp and 420lb/ft. I just won the Manx Classic 3 Hills (beating the likes of Caterham R500s etc) and the box is still feeling great after 10 full bore launches. On the old turbo (estimated 380ish lb/ft) it did 29 quarter mile launches.
The later 5 speed (Sti 5 & 6) boxes are stronger, but I suppose you get good ones and bad ones.
The later 5 speed (Sti 5 & 6) boxes are stronger, but I suppose you get good ones and bad ones.
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speak to pavlo (paul at zen) and mark (lateral) as well
pavlo did mine 2 years ago
my00 uk turbo with PPG retaining factory 5th and it's fine
ok, it whines, but you get used to it after a while . or just get a blitz nur spec and you'd hardly hear it lol
if you do go for the PPG then ask about the billet selector forks as well , , i have still got the standard ones and did stuff 1 on the drag strip last year.
mine runs 461 / 486
pavlo did mine 2 years ago
my00 uk turbo with PPG retaining factory 5th and it's fine
ok, it whines, but you get used to it after a while . or just get a blitz nur spec and you'd hardly hear it lol
if you do go for the PPG then ask about the billet selector forks as well , , i have still got the standard ones and did stuff 1 on the drag strip last year.
mine runs 461 / 486
#16
#17
speak to pavlo (paul at zen) and mark (lateral) as well
pavlo did mine 2 years ago
my00 uk turbo with PPG retaining factory 5th and it's fine
ok, it whines, but you get used to it after a while . or just get a blitz nur spec and you'd hardly hear it lol
if you do go for the PPG then ask about the billet selector forks as well , , i have still got the standard ones and did stuff 1 on the drag strip last year.
mine runs 461 / 486
pavlo did mine 2 years ago
my00 uk turbo with PPG retaining factory 5th and it's fine
ok, it whines, but you get used to it after a while . or just get a blitz nur spec and you'd hardly hear it lol
if you do go for the PPG then ask about the billet selector forks as well , , i have still got the standard ones and did stuff 1 on the drag strip last year.
mine runs 461 / 486
I kept the billet selector forks (though not required) on the helical kit and I must say they do feel nice. Possibly more of a mental thing though...
Cheers
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Des,
Who carried out the gearbox conversion for you? Do you mind posting a rough price that it cost?
thanks
Dave
Who carried out the gearbox conversion for you? Do you mind posting a rough price that it cost?
thanks
Dave
#19
I had my bits changed over last year so I suspect the price is out of date but expect to pay around £2100-ish for a helical or straight cut synchro kit. I know of at least two UK suppliers viz. Mark Aigin - Lateral Performance and Paul Blamire - Zen Performance. My gearbox was built by the same guy who builds my engine (Steve Whitson) but I don't know how relevant that info would be to you unless you are based in or near Edinburgh.
Cheers
#21
Ollie, I just had 3/4th changed at a cost less than a 6 speed. It is helical IIRC and has a slight whine, which I kinda like! 5th is std. Zen did the work very quickly to an agreed price. 1st and 2nd may fail at some point but I don't do 1/4 stuff, just track work where they aren't normally used.
F
F
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I thought about a PPG when I broke my box last week, mine broke 5th gear so the PPG would have made no difference had it been fitted before. A 6 speed box is the way to go I reckon.
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T5OLF,
What broke on 5th ? I know of many cars running a PPG 1-4, & standard 5th gear, with well over 550bhp/ftlbs, and they have never broken the gear.
Early boxes do use a smaller woodruff key on 5th, and these can break.
As Floyd has said, you can just fit an up rated PPG 3rd-4th helical, or straight cut syncro kit,
Or, if you like it a little quieter, but also like drag racing, you can fit a straight cut 1st-2nd, and a helical 3rd-4th !!!
Either way, there are combinations to suit most people.
Mark.
What broke on 5th ? I know of many cars running a PPG 1-4, & standard 5th gear, with well over 550bhp/ftlbs, and they have never broken the gear.
Early boxes do use a smaller woodruff key on 5th, and these can break.
As Floyd has said, you can just fit an up rated PPG 3rd-4th helical, or straight cut syncro kit,
Or, if you like it a little quieter, but also like drag racing, you can fit a straight cut 1st-2nd, and a helical 3rd-4th !!!
Either way, there are combinations to suit most people.
Mark.
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#26
PPG say the straights are stronger than the helical, though both have similar tooth designs and obviously different geometry.
Is there some 'break-point' when a straight is a must?
ie Helical to 450 lbft, straight beyond 450?
Driving to and hopefully from events with a straight box sounds torture to me, but the 1st/2nd straight and 3/4 helical/5th stock sounds good for the road.
Graham
Is there some 'break-point' when a straight is a must?
ie Helical to 450 lbft, straight beyond 450?
Driving to and hopefully from events with a straight box sounds torture to me, but the 1st/2nd straight and 3/4 helical/5th stock sounds good for the road.
Graham
#27
PPG say the straights are stronger than the helical, though both have similar tooth designs and obviously different geometry.
Is there some 'break-point' when a straight is a must?
ie Helical to 450 lbft, straight beyond 450?
Driving to and hopefully from events with a straight box sounds torture to me, but the 1st/2nd straight and 3/4 helical/5th stock sounds good for the road.
Graham
Is there some 'break-point' when a straight is a must?
ie Helical to 450 lbft, straight beyond 450?
Driving to and hopefully from events with a straight box sounds torture to me, but the 1st/2nd straight and 3/4 helical/5th stock sounds good for the road.
Graham
I actually asked PPG how much torque they felt the helical could take and the response was a less than useful "500-600 bhp but if you are doing drag racing you should rather use the straight cuts". Would be interested in a better answer myself!!!
Cheers
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I did two second gears in three weeks on mine using OE gearboxes.
Then I went for a UK Six speed. I love it. It made the car very driveable. As Graham said 1-4th can be a bit frantic but less so on the UK six speed.
Although I did eventually wear the 4th gear syncros out.
The six speed was rebuilt and is now top notch.
Then I went for a UK Six speed. I love it. It made the car very driveable. As Graham said 1-4th can be a bit frantic but less so on the UK six speed.
Although I did eventually wear the 4th gear syncros out.
The six speed was rebuilt and is now top notch.