What Gearbox?
07 July 2008, 04:11 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What Gearbox?
So.. Car is approaching 350BHP and have no real intentions to stop other than the inherent cost involved. I know if i push it i'll blow the transmission so the question is, what dop you fit?
PPG
Quaife
Other ? Are there any other options than these two?
It is sad that the stock Impreza box is only really capable of around the 350HP mark, my mate running well over 600HP on a stock gear box in an EVO 2RS it even outlasted his dog box....
What are the rest of you running, i know there are some crazy snickers eating fools out there running standard trasnmission on 400+ but how long for and what sort of driving?
Looking to keep the car for road as well as track, not drag necessarily drag though.
PPG
Quaife
Other ? Are there any other options than these two?
It is sad that the stock Impreza box is only really capable of around the 350HP mark, my mate running well over 600HP on a stock gear box in an EVO 2RS it even outlasted his dog box....
What are the rest of you running, i know there are some crazy snickers eating fools out there running standard trasnmission on 400+ but how long for and what sort of driving?
Looking to keep the car for road as well as track, not drag necessarily drag though.
07 July 2008, 04:52 PM
#5
I don't think anybody has done something different other than PPG or the 6 speed.
Pros and cons to both....
I went for PPG on mine despite the higher cost for several reasons:
1 - Weight
2 - Having much higher torque means you will forever be shifting up and down the box wasting time... Not good either on track when you want both hands on the wheel, or 1/4 mile as you have an extra gearchange.
3 - You will have to start matching/messing with the diff.
4 - I like the straight cut sound
5 - In your case (not mine), you already have a TY754 case saving a couple of hundred quid.
£3k you will be lucky though.... That will be just the gearset, then add on the seals/gaskets/oil/selector forks. Labour to build the box, remove old one, fit new one etc and it's getting expensive. If you're looking for monster power, might as well get a beefy clutch like a twin plate while the box is out to avoid more costs later on.
Say minimum £5k.
It is sad that the standard box isn't up to much, but they only build them to manage certain tolerances, much like the engines. I don't expect they would spec a gearbox in the assumption someone will upgrade with forged internals, big turbo etc.
Pros and cons to both....
I went for PPG on mine despite the higher cost for several reasons:
1 - Weight
2 - Having much higher torque means you will forever be shifting up and down the box wasting time... Not good either on track when you want both hands on the wheel, or 1/4 mile as you have an extra gearchange.
3 - You will have to start matching/messing with the diff.
4 - I like the straight cut sound
5 - In your case (not mine), you already have a TY754 case saving a couple of hundred quid.
£3k you will be lucky though.... That will be just the gearset, then add on the seals/gaskets/oil/selector forks. Labour to build the box, remove old one, fit new one etc and it's getting expensive. If you're looking for monster power, might as well get a beefy clutch like a twin plate while the box is out to avoid more costs later on.
Say minimum £5k.
It is sad that the standard box isn't up to much, but they only build them to manage certain tolerances, much like the engines. I don't expect they would spec a gearbox in the assumption someone will upgrade with forged internals, big turbo etc.
07 July 2008, 05:29 PM
#6
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks mate, do you find the straight cut PPG too noisy? I know the helical cut is available in fact there are loads of combinations!
You know for 5K dare i say it, i could buy an EVO 1/2
I spoke to someone at API earlier but not David, he was angling at the 3.2 mark but as always there are extras that you dont account for.
You know for 5K dare i say it, i could buy an EVO 1/2
I spoke to someone at API earlier but not David, he was angling at the 3.2 mark but as always there are extras that you dont account for.
08 July 2008, 08:59 AM
#7
Thanks mate, do you find the straight cut PPG too noisy? I know the helical cut is available in fact there are loads of combinations!
You know for 5K dare i say it, i could buy an EVO 1/2
I spoke to someone at API earlier but not David, he was angling at the 3.2 mark but as always there are extras that you dont account for.
You know for 5K dare i say it, i could buy an EVO 1/2
I spoke to someone at API earlier but not David, he was angling at the 3.2 mark but as always there are extras that you dont account for.
£3200 is do-able but that is probably a 'best case' scenario... ie I would imagine that quote would mean you keep your current selector forks, all bearings, sychros etc are re-used, you keep your current fifth gear (I had the close ratio 5th so got a P1 5th as PPG are a bit longer than the close box in a type R), same clutch etc. I had everything done on mine - thought I'm paying to have the box out, which is an expensive job on its own, so might as well get everything done.
Depends how much you want to run at the end of the day.... mine is probably 450/450 at the moment but there is more to come....
Edited to add, David @ API was very helpful with advice on mine. I didn't have it built by them in the end but more due to logistical reasons than anything else.
Last edited by rossi_p; 08 July 2008 at 09:03 AM.
Trending Topics
08 July 2008, 09:31 AM
#8
Scooby Regular
Straight cut can be a little loud, but doesn't really bother me as don't do many miles... However, I defo wouldn't want a full straight cut box (I have helical 3/4). The change is lovely though, feels factory smooth and even my heavier twin plate clutch isn't a problem.
£3200 is do-able but that is probably a 'best case' scenario... ie I would imagine that quote would mean you keep your current selector forks, all bearings, sychros etc are re-used, you keep your current fifth gear (I had the close ratio 5th so got a P1 5th as PPG are a bit longer than the close box in a type R), same clutch etc. I had everything done on mine - thought I'm paying to have the box out, which is an expensive job on its own, so might as well get everything done.
Depends how much you want to run at the end of the day.... mine is probably 450/450 at the moment but there is more to come....
Edited to add, David @ API was very helpful with advice on mine. I didn't have it built by them in the end but more due to logistical reasons than anything else.
£3200 is do-able but that is probably a 'best case' scenario... ie I would imagine that quote would mean you keep your current selector forks, all bearings, sychros etc are re-used, you keep your current fifth gear (I had the close ratio 5th so got a P1 5th as PPG are a bit longer than the close box in a type R), same clutch etc. I had everything done on mine - thought I'm paying to have the box out, which is an expensive job on its own, so might as well get everything done.
Depends how much you want to run at the end of the day.... mine is probably 450/450 at the moment but there is more to come....
Edited to add, David @ API was very helpful with advice on mine. I didn't have it built by them in the end but more due to logistical reasons than anything else.
mine was built for similar price to the quote btu with forks selctors etc all included, the box was justs switched, not removed rebuilt then replaced as it were.
5k for the box seem very very high to me indeed
08 July 2008, 11:31 AM
#9
£5k isn't for just the box...
PPG gearset c. 2400 inc VAT
Selector forks 1-4 c. 385 inc VAT
Twin plate clutch c. 1150 inc VAT
Seals/Gaskets/oil/possible bearings/synchros etc c. 150 inc VAT (probably more!)
Big one - Labour to remove old box, strip, build and refit... between 12-16 hours of labour @ c. 50 per hour = minimum 700 inc VAT.
Thus the c.5k figure.
For earlier cars, you also need a donor TY754 casing, which would be another 200+vat.
Alll depends what you have done... 3200 is easily possible, but you exclude the clutch... fair enough if you already have a tough one. No point buying a tough PPG box and then having a standard or mildly uprated clutch otherwise you're limiting yourself again and will just mean greater expense down the road.
As I said in the previous post, I would have it done while the box is out to save money in the long run.
PPG gearset c. 2400 inc VAT
Selector forks 1-4 c. 385 inc VAT
Twin plate clutch c. 1150 inc VAT
Seals/Gaskets/oil/possible bearings/synchros etc c. 150 inc VAT (probably more!)
Big one - Labour to remove old box, strip, build and refit... between 12-16 hours of labour @ c. 50 per hour = minimum 700 inc VAT.
Thus the c.5k figure.
For earlier cars, you also need a donor TY754 casing, which would be another 200+vat.
Alll depends what you have done... 3200 is easily possible, but you exclude the clutch... fair enough if you already have a tough one. No point buying a tough PPG box and then having a standard or mildly uprated clutch otherwise you're limiting yourself again and will just mean greater expense down the road.
As I said in the previous post, I would have it done while the box is out to save money in the long run.
08 July 2008, 01:25 PM
#10
Bloody el thats expensive to remove and refit a box on labour charge...........
Think I paid about £3.4k ish all in for my PPG helical with 5th Gear non-PPG and that was after the gearbox totally died. I dont have high power so didnt need selector fork mods (I'm only running in the 450-500bhp bracket)
Think I paid about £3.4k ish all in for my PPG helical with 5th Gear non-PPG and that was after the gearbox totally died. I dont have high power so didnt need selector fork mods (I'm only running in the 450-500bhp bracket)
, but also i didn't have the clutch, well did but not a twin plate
08 July 2008, 03:20 PM
#13
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post