john banks

Sorry edited the other thread too many times so it was deleted!

Logged an AE801 ECU with a fuel cut lifter which resulted in 19 PSI displaying as 16 PSI on the logs During the whole run there was not a single episode of knock correction.
What does this tell me?

1. The standard ECU is stinky rich with voltages of 900 - 920 mV on full boost full throttle. This has to be over 12% CO!

2. NF octane booster and SUL with a decat work rather well to keep the car from knocking at least in my test even at 5.5 PSI over standard boost Note I saw typically up to 0.5 degrees retard on a standard car (all the cats) at standard boost, and with a Dawes at 16.5 PSI there was similar, but no NF in either.

3. There are loads of gains to be had from advancing the ignition more and leaning it out slightly I am entirely convinced. A full remap is the way ahead for me

4. And the highest injector duty cycle was at about 5000 RPM at about 19 PSI and was 83% - oh I love 440cc injectors

Apologies for the insane 1920 x 1440 resolution of the following screen dump - I take it you have a nice big monitor or are handy with the scroll bars - only way to fit everything on that you want to see! The time is in milliseconds so it is a six minute log during normal driving down my favourite private road. Ignore the primary wastegate solenoid or whatever it is called - it was not connected but the Dawes was - add about 19 % onto the boost values for the true value because of the fuel cut lifter.



[Edited by john banks - 4/23/2002 10:07:12 PM]

Scotsman

iTrader: (3)

Nice John

Would my car run OK at 19 PSI with a fuel cut lifter - even with the standard exhaust with cats? Not sure if it needs better breathing to cope with that boost raise.

Edited to also ask how much of a difference do you see in your cars performance running 19 PSI with the standard MY99 ECU against 19 PSI with the PPP ECU?

Richard.

[Edited by Scotsman - 4/23/2002 10:30:24 PM]

john banks

I would never recommend anyone runs a standard turbo at 19 PSI Maybe 17.5 PSI. Yes you really need a downpipe. Looking through the log I have found two isolated points where the knock signal was "1" (it is either 1 or 0), but there was no knock correction. Can Steve explain this?

However I have just found on Stefan's log the the knock signal was on about 1/4 of the time but usually when it was idling or in vacuum - ie at closed loop which might be expected since his lambda was fixed at 320mV throughout I didn't seem any knock signal on boost and there was not much knock correction going on. I just don't know how significant the knock signal being on is. If we are in any doubt you might be better replacing the lambda sooner rather than later Stefan! Have a look at the logs and see if you agree. It is the 19-37 one but you have to look in Excel as Delta Dash doesn't show you most of it because we changed the graphing part way through the log.

[Edited by john banks - 4/23/2002 10:49:32 PM]

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

John

Let me get this right, your conclusion is that with a full decat, panel filter and i/c tubing, you can then tune the std ECU (advance, fuel injector cycle, boost increase and fuel cut limit) to much better (than first thought) performance ie 270 bhp and maybe onto 300?

If this is so, then it's really good news and good value for money. All the best increases from a 'link' type mod with the benefits of std idle/hot start/aircon control as well. Hurrah.

Then you can add a PE manifold, water jacket TMIC, water spray and then get a quiet and cat'd exhaust but still maintain performance? Or am I dreaming?

F

john banks

I don't think you are dreaming, but I don't know how sensible running 19 PSI is long term - importantly I do not know the EGTs - however I don't expect they will be high since the car is not retarding - I was amazed to see no knock correction at all on my car. I am happier to run to the edge on my own car. Watch the boost head down as the revs rise though - it is like the rev counter is going one way and the boost gauge the other! I would be inclined to go decat, panel filter, intercooler hose, turbo and remap. No reason why this could not be done for much more than the price of a PPP?

ozzy

Ok, will do John.

Like you I'd much rather get it sorted quick as.

BTW, 19.5PSI felt just as fast as the graphs suggest and faster than my car with the PPP ECU and its meagre 16/17 PSI

Stefan

T-uk

when did you say you had that BIG exam john?

I just wonder how long it will be before you get to dave brown and cosie convert type boost

Scotsman

iTrader: (3)

Stefan - I would imagine the jump to 19 PSI is pretty big performance wise - I still can't quite get over the jump from 14 to 16.5 with the Dawes.

Shame is that I know that in a few weeks that I'll get used to the feeling and then will start looking at more mods

Richard.

ozzy

Yeah, I know what you mean Richard. That blast in John's car was enough to start me thinking PPP+Dawes=

Stefan

Cosie Convert

LOL @ T-UK Dave B and I will have moved on up by then

PS Don't forget 'dump valve popin' Pete !!

Boostaholics united

PeterPerfect

Excellent stuff John...this really is good news for us 'poor relation' UK model turbos
Its very interesting your engine is not having to correct any nasty events
How does it feel to drive then with 19psi !!!!?????
Hmmm Dawes @17psi is beginning to feel a bit....'normal'.....must get the FCD build ASAP
Pete

LG John

LOL Cossie - 'Boostaholics' Brilliant! Now all you need to do is see if you can get it recognised by the medical profession

john banks

There is no way it should go higher than 19 PSI IMHO, and I am not going to log it to try. The TD04L is a small turbo, and to make a lot of boost basically sits as a dirty great big obstruction at the end of your uppipe to exhaust gas flow whilst trying to force air in through the throttle. If you go too far there are consequences and the sensible place is to stop right here. Those who have run over 20 PSI have got into problems at some point or other. Conventional wisdom suggests longevity of engine and turbo at about 1.2 bar/ 17.5 PSI or thereabouts. I cannot safely recommend higher.

In running my car at 19 PSI (like I have for a while now) I am not endorsing others would do the same, I do not recommend it and would not configure anyone else's car to do the same.

The fuel cut defender circuit if misapplied has major potential to blow up your ECU or engine and should only be attempted it 1. you are happy to take on this risk and 2. you can substantially offset it by knowing what you are doing.

Preach over "Safety First" And no, no-one has emailed me to say I will be responsible for blowing up multiple engines just in case you wondered, and I don't want to be. Just presenting results and a bit of discussion. Enjoy

And CC, I might be chasing your tail quicker than you think, but probably not doing a good job as I am not going to take risks with it. That is not a slag off I love your car, but this is my daily driver, and I am not going to push fuelling and boost like you have. And I can't drive either!

[Edited by john banks - 4/24/2002 2:24:51 PM]

ozzy

Dr Banks, YHM ......





























.... only joking

I hope this means your going to start some studying or are you just too clever to worry about such things?

Stefan

john banks

Study what is that? When I have less hours before the exam than the boost pressure I am running then I will be interested. Until then Better turn up the boost then

[Edited by john banks - 4/24/2002 2:27:25 PM]

Cosie Convert

The graph says it all about the TD04 if you look at the airflow, it doesn't increase after 4500 rpm (approx) it just remains constant right through to 6500 rpm. It would be interesting to superimpose a TD05 airflow trace, I suspect it's not a big improvement perhaps peaking 500 rpm later then levelling off in a similar fashion.

John, How about borrowing T-uk's racy rear silencer and doing another run ? Keen to see the difference a bit of backpressure reduction makes

StephenDone

Hi John,

You've got more bottle than me - 19 PSI...'kin 'ell ! I only today wound my boost up to 17.5 PSI for the midrange. Was 312lbft at 16.4 PSI. Dyno day on Saturday at PE, so we'll see. Rather hot these days though.

btw, what was your highest read air flow voltage ? It'd be interesting to compare with my car. The highest I have seen recently is 4.32 volts.

Cheers

Steve

T-uk

might as well change the centre at the same time .

how close are you,to your new fuel cut john?,the blitz might find it

StephenDone

Regarding the knock signal. The ECU is extremely sensitive to knock, and starts retarding before it even shows on a gauge such as a knocklink - we've watched one on the dyno.

Different ECUs maps have different sensitivities to knock - the ECU may have heard the onset of det, but at an rpm/load point at which it doesn't care, or at a level that is too small to worry about. Also, STIs are purposely 'deafer' than WRXs, probably due to their forged pistons with increased resilience.

Cheers

Steve

catflap

19psi , that is superb

So the uk ecu aint that bad

Trouble is how do the large number of people (myself included) who know littel about the workings of a car go about learning and applying such things?

Why do i say this, simple, after fitting my dawes, i would love to raise it to 17.5, i htikn im holding at 16.5 at moment. Yet i dont know how, or its effects.

Listening and learning Catflap

john banks

I think the highest airflow was 4.42 V from about 4500 to 6000 RPM but I'll check the log later. The intake temperatures in road use are ambient +20C or less during a hard run. Given our typical ambients at the moment that is about 30C. Ideally I would drop the boost and advance the timing and lean the fuelling a bit I believe for best power/torque and reliability.

[Edited by john banks - 4/25/2002 9:35:07 AM]

WREXY

John,

How did you get the data log on here. I know the upload bit. It's the before bit I can't work out.


You have your whole PC page on here, how do you do it.


Cheers,

Wrexy.

mutant_matt

Wrexy,

Hit the Print Screen button, go to a Graphics/Paint application and select Paste. Low and behold, a screen grab appears.

Matt

P.S. If you only want to screen grab the current Active application, do ALT+Print Screen.

b5m

Rather post the logs to a site so we can download and analyse:

http://www.logshere/wrexy-29psi.log

I'll get my coat...

WREXY

Thanks Matt. That seems easy enough, but I have another question. How did John fit 10 graphs to the screen and I can only get 4 and a half?

Cheers,

Wrexy.

StephenDone

He has a professional **** surfing size of monitor ;-)

Steve

b5m

"How did John fit 10 graphs to the screen and I can only get 4 and a half?"

He is running a very high resolution probably on a desktop. 1920x1440, on your laptop you probably have 1024x768.

[Edited by b5m - 4/25/2002 2:19:17 PM]

ozzy

Wrexy,

I assume you were logging more than 4 signals and if so, you can use the scroll bars to see more of the graphs?

If so, then all you need to do is set the video resolution of your PC to something large (John used 1920 x 1440 ) to fit them all in.

Hope you've got a BIG monitor

Stefan

ozzy

My laptop will go to 1400x1050 (possible 1600x1200 at a push), so if you want I could create the screen dump for you if you mail me the logs.

Stefan

WREXY

Stefan I was just going to ask, if anyone wanted to do it for me. OK I'll send you the logs.

Cheers,

Wrexy.