Tissy

Right guys, help me make decision. My WRX is due for its 20,000 in about 2 weeks time.

Do i have the PPP fitted or not. I'm considering this due to the warranty aspect.

For those that have it, is it worth it and does it make a huge difference on fuel.

Any feedback appriciated.

Steve

LegacySTi

iTrader: (13)

mate has it........... doesn't rate it too much to be honest for the cost....

FLAT ERIC

iTrader: (1)

Does it make a huge difference on fuel? Well yes & no. Fuel consumption is , on paper, actually better with the PPP. But the temptation is to "use" the extra grunt so lessening the advantage.

Be aware the bhp figures quoted by Prodrive can be a tad optimistic. I only saw 252bhp against their figure of 260. Even so the PPP did bring the car alive.

PPP dyno


Once the warranty had run out so did the cats to be replaced by a high flow (MOT friendly) sports cat & remap.

Sport cat/Remap dyno


Most people will say :-

If the warranty matters PPP is the ONLY way you can go.

If the warranty doesn't matter or has run out you can get more gains for the same money by going decat/remap route.

Mark

Her at the back

OK and for all people sitting thinking a what? could someone please explain

Tissy

Come on Sarah, get with it, we only visited them a few months back

PPP - Prodrive Performance Pack.

Her at the back

Not me just sometimes people dont have guts to ask the questions so dont learn anything

I personally find it better if people make it simple and explain so we all learn something new

53

iTrader: (41)

I wouldn't have bought it if I knew then what I know now. My car made laughable bhp with PPP, but gained extra in torque. I would get a less restrictive BB and decat rear centre and see how you get on. These items are easily substituted should you need to make a warranty claim and they won't break anything. Only extra bit to these two items is the Intercooler hose and ECU change. But to be honest the standard map isn't bad and certainly the PPP map didn't do anything monumental that couldn't be attributed to the exhaust changes anyway. Come warranty expiry I would recomend my mods for a MY05 WRX (having a MY03 myself).

H&S Jap BB
H&S De-res Centre
Prodrive De-cat Rear Centre
H&S Sports Cat Down Pipe
H&S De-cat Up-pipe (made to internal Diam 45mm)
Denso Iridium upgraded spark Plugs
Prodrive ECU remapped to Mocom's secret recipe
Prodrive Intercooler Hose

Add a bit of Mocom .... out pops 235 WHP


I have a PD Back box for sale (warranty friendly probably) and the decat rear centre can be had from Ian at H&S for under £100. I can't recomend the PPP having seen the dyno reports from my mapping with Zak, even though the car is better, its cost is only justified as far as I am concerned by the whole warranty issue.

These are the parts, £500 for exhaust, please and a whole set of samcos can be had for about £75.

Tissy

Its nice to see the break down of parts. I see what you mean.

Thats a reasonable price for the whole kit also, how long ago was that.

I've been quoted £1425 for PPP including the 20,000 service.

53

iTrader: (41)

I had it done at Days of Chelmsford in October 2005. Andrew Richards who used to work there got me a great price of £1200.

PPP is a financial decision really, top dollar for low end performance gains and a tick in the warranty box. That said £1425 for PPP including the 20,000 service is good under those terms.

If you do get it done, make sure you ask for all the parts that come off your car to make sure everything is fitted !

In terms of warranty I only ever claimed for a dead battery, but it is nice knowing you are covered.

frayz

iTrader: (7)

Personally id give it to Zak to service and setup with a remap etc..

Sure im bias because he tunes my car.. but then i have Zak tune it because he's very very good at what he does.. If he wasnt id go elsewhere.
Ahmed only ever mapped my cossie for the same reason.

IMO the PPP aint worth a carrrot and you would get SOOO much more for your money elsewhere.

53

iTrader: (41)

IMO the PPP aint worth a carrrot

Indeed, compare this to the published PPP figures and I think you will find a discrepency.

Dyno Test: PPP 1strun
=================

Maximum Wheel Power: 182.0 BHP @ 5278 RPM
Maximum Wheel Torque: 203.4 LbFt @ 3692 RPM
Power to weight ratio: 121.3 BHP per ton

Terminal velocity due to power: 158.0 mph

In Gear Acceleration:
40 - 60mph = 3.3 seconds
50 - 70mph = 3.3 seconds
60 - 80mph = 3.7 seconds

182WHP is equal to about 211bhp to 228bhp which the car should have had at standard anyway ? This is road tested not rolling road tested so it is a pretty accurate reflection.

JAKbauer24

hello from the wyioc .... I had it done cost me £1700 , was chuffed to bits , that is till i went on a club RR day 242bhp i could have cried .... the scooby clinc could have given me 276bhp for £1200 and 300bhp for £2000 in my eyes it's a rip off .... HTH


JB24

Nate

iTrader: (2)

I never see the PPP as worthwhile for 'performance' , you would be better getting it tuned elsewhere as Frayz said, if you want really noticeable differences.

I have always thought of a PPP as 'tame' .

Tissy

mmmm, feedback not good then !!

I'm guessing if i went to Mocom and they did their stuff, that would invalidate my warranty ? That is the main feature for me at the moment, as knowing my luck, the day after i have it tuned elsewhere i'll need warranty work doing and it'll be invalidated !!

Why is there so much difference between the published and actual outputed figures, surely this can be challenged with Prodrive or indeed Subaru. Do they not give a certificate or something to say what the PPP has achieved ? Trade description and all that.

Thanks for you feedback people.

Mark_B4

Decat it, and get Zak @ Mocom to remap her.....

Forget the warranty, live on the edge....

frayz

iTrader: (7)

Okay technically YES it will invalidate you warrenty..

however..

If you decided you wanted Zak to map it etc, he would store your stock map so if ever you needed to swap back to stock. Then its just a case of pluging the laptop back in and dumping her base map back in.

The PPP figures are so off because its just a plug in flashed ECU.... a bit like a superchip if you will. Sure it has a different map but not one exactly taliored to your car. So therefore it will never make the car reach its full potential.

If youre that worried about your warrenty, leave the car well alone until its up. However id just swap back the maps if she ever needed to go back to Subaru.

Your call. Maybe call Zak and talk about your options with him.

He doesnt charge for phonecalls

EmEm

Good point Sara!!! I know nothing about PPP, re-mapping etc.. its all gobblety-goop to me!!!

frayz

iTrader: (7)

What would you like to know?

EmEm

I shouldn't ask as I may start looking into modding.... but I would like to know about re-mapping and how it helps the car's performance etc. I know it can help fuel consumption, can't it?
I think my car has been chipped, but God knows what with (it could be a McCain's Over Chip for all I know !!!)
Will the rolling road, in Feb, show alot about whats happening "in" my car as it were?

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

UK 01 MY Wagon. All the cats still in place.
HKS Hybrid Panel Filter £34
JDM STi Fuel Pump Free from a frend.
De-resonated centre section £60.
STi Intercooler £180
WR sport BB on the car at purchase.
EcuTEK Re-map at Powerstation £499+VAT
3 Port Boost Controller £110 (I think )

269.6 BHP + 342.7 Nm Torque @ 3555 RPM
Ambient Air Temp 8.5 'C
Air Pressure 1046.9 Bar

It's cheaper

frayz

iTrader: (7)

Okay.. the basics.

You car has an ECU (Electronic Control Unit)

This is the engines brain. In this brain there will be loads of tables, spreadsheets if you will. There is a speasd sheet for each of the enines parameters. ie fuel, boost, throttle opening, cylinder pressure, load etc etc etc.

With me so far?

Okay...

Basically the ECU reads these spreadsheets thousands of times a second. These spreadsheets tell the ECU what fuel/ign/bost to add at what time and for how long.

So there we have Mr ECU reading speadsheets and telling the engine what to do in order to work at its best efficency and make sure everything runs smoothly. Mr ECU is kind of like the conductor of a nice big band.. making sure everyone plays the right note at the right time.

Still with me?

Cool.

So now we come along and we Know that as our cars engine are basically a huge air pump and the more air we get in, the more we get out, the more power she makes.

So

We decide to change bits of the orchestra (exhaust, air filter turbo etc) to make the engine more efficient.

HOWEVER!!

Mr ECU is still reading the old spreadsheets and is wondering why his orchestra doesnt sound quite right.

He needs a remap.

So along we come with or remapping software to rewrite his spreedsheets so his orchestra now works to its best effiency again.

All the new parts are working properly and his music is louder than before.. (We have given him more power)



Is there anything there you still dont get and i can explain it better.

This is about as much as i can break it down lol

EmEm

Frayz, that made perfect sense!!! So it could be a good idea to maybe think about getting her re-mapped ? She has the new exhaust/airfilter etc and like I said, it has been suggested that she may of well been chipped too, but I have nothing to say that or that she's ever been re-mapped, and since I've never owned one before, to me she drives perfect but to an "expert" she might not be hitting the right notes (pardon the punn!) She is due for a "proper" service in a month or so, so should I get her re-mapped then do you think?

Will the Rolling Road show much, other than BHP??

Thank you, your a star!!

Neanderthal

iTrader: (6)

Bloomin ekk Eves, didn't realise your before figure was with PPP!?!

I'm another happy Mocom remapped wrx owner

frayz

iTrader: (7)

It just needs a fueling and det check really.

This involves reading the exhaust gases with a wideband lambda sensor to make sure the fuling is correct and alo checking the engine for pre-detonation with a set of det cans (funky headphones )

This can be done by Zak for not alot of money although they should do this when you go on the rollers.

The rolling road wont show you much other than numbers.. numbers mean sod all really but if the opperator is good then he may be able to tell you if shes running right or not.

Personally, (please dont take this wrong) id get it checked beforehand by someone else. The guys at the RR could easily see you as a girl in a scoob whos pretty green to tuning and could tell you a load of ****. Therefore id get her checked out before you go just so you know she will be safe when on the rollers and you know shes perfect before you go.

Rolling roads put a huge strain on your car so if she's going to det, it WILL det on the rollers due to the huge loads forced on the car. (Kind of like you driving up a massive hill with 4 fat mates in the car.)

Up to you.. i can only advise you as to what i would do. Worth it just for the peace of mind alone IMO.

bibo_boy

Im booked into Mocom on monday to have my Apexi fitted and mapped!!!!!

What should I expect?

EmEm

Cheers Frayz. I must admit, I am VERY cautious about the whole Rolling Road thing ... I know Paul fairly well (ex partner use to take his Cossie there all the time) but like you say; girly + scooby = possible p*ss takers???????
Its not til 25th, so maybe an idea to contact Mocom to see if they can give her the once over?
I'll see what they suggest.... the last thing I want is my baby being trailered home

frayz

iTrader: (7)

Service with a smile

kin quick

iTrader: (2)

Loving the re-map explanation Frayz, quality and down to a T

53

iTrader: (41)

Money well spent I thought PPP always left me wanting.

You get a BB that you will sell shortly after the warranty expires
A decat rear centre worth about £100
An intercooler hose worth about £40
An ECU which you don't really need if you just remap the existing one
A certificate to show how fast the Prodrive car was when they developed PPP

A big dent in your wallet

A warm feeling that you just bought something from Prodrive and still have a warranty just incase they gave you a dud battery

Lets just say Mocom filled my PPP void

frayz

iTrader: (7)

I aim to please you lot dont i