Hi, just a general query.

I see a lot of people having oil coolers on etc......
From my understanding the modine is good enough for most applications, but, are oil coolers really worth it?
Most who fit oil coolers have good grade oil in engines anyway, well most of enthusiasts put good grade oil in that are capable to reach high temps that you probably won't get to.
Aren't engines best performance when hot anyway, so if the oil can withstand the heat generated then wouldn't that be ok if the oil is capable?
What is the actual temperature for your oil to get before you actually need a cooler and what's the average oil temperature should be for best performance?

Answer away guys, it's all education.

 

I think coolers are needed for the more prolonged harder track use, a bigger aftermarket turbo will get the temps up there a lot quicker than a standard one and if you're running big power it's a given in my book, on a standard road car no so much but with an aftermarket turbo possibly depending on power output.

My last 2 cars have them as standard and even when I was out at the ring a few years back only after nearly a full lap was I hitting just over 100 deg C so they definitely work but pointless if you're driving to the shops

 

But a post by opie a few weeks back suggested 140c is the correct operating temperature so really do most cars need them?

I need to do something about mine as I'm running 85 degrees under most conditions it would be good to know what exactly I should be aiming for...

 

On my vf35 it never got that hot
I back off at 110. But it can get ther quickly now with my sc42 based turbo.

I dont have an oil cooler.
But planned to fit one along with new 11m oil pump at next timing belt change.
140 sounds very high tho is that not maybey the good oils limit ?

I could be wrong. Maybey im not caning it enough.
Whats highest you have seen.

 

Never over 100 even on the strip....

That's what opie oils suggested though. It would be interesting for their input

 

Interesting thread,I would also like to know,is there a optimum oil temps for oil to work best?
140* seems high

 

Exactly my point, these quality oils that we put in our cars can withstand the temps no problem, but what is the actual limit of temperature before your going to break something? Will anything actually break? If so what?
A lot seem to just go for the under 100c option because it looks good or it's what everyone else does, but I want to know what will happen.
Afaik only proper race cars benifit from coolers as they get upto boiling point for long periods of time.
I just want to know if it's a band wagon thing as I'm not convinced so need to be enlightened.
And yes I seen opine oils posts regarding it too.

 

I'd take FHI's word over an oil salesman personally, ...you know what I mean though they built the car and felt the need to add it to the standard spec of the model so must need one...lets be honest they are not the most reliable engines and knocking is a common occurrence due to temps of engine and oil etc...now whether that's down to poor maintenance or just crap oil is anyone's guess but they are not an expensive mod really

 

This.

My thoughts


On my track car. I see 130degrees with a 16Row cooler with proper fabrication to ensure the air passes through it running a very high quality oil that is good for at least 150degrees. I need a cooler, they are designed to keep temps within acceptable limits for hard driving on track.

On a road car I would not bother. Most of the time it is not needed. If you have a big power car and are regularly giving it death down some deserted back roads and you begin to hit high temps for extended periods of time, then perhaps it would be worth considering. But I would not fit one onto a fast road car straight off, only if that car was driven so hard that you began to see high temps.

I would say 130 is acceptable with a high quality oil 140/150 is Ok but you wouldn´t want to hold it there for too long.

 

Cool. 130c with a cooler driven on track is probably fair enough given your oil is a 150c limit.
Suppose it's down to what it's used for? So best bet for me is to just see what my normal temps are.
Obviously I'd like to get on track from time to time , but mostly the car is used on road whenever it's sunny etc.
So for me it's probably look and decide from there.

 

If out on track it's nothing to do a couple of cool down laps though.

So you might find you would be fine.

Alot of it depends on the size of your bollocks and how long you keep the right boot buried for....

 

I don´t lift off - I am giving 500hp ish absolute death for 20minutes flat out. So I need a cooler.

But I think with some mods like this - If you build a car obviously over engineer it....however on a road car run without a cooler and see. And if you begin to hit real high temps...then fair enough get a cooler on. Kind of suck it and see

 

I would also say. A lot is down to the quality of the fabrication that lets the air flow through the cooler. Before my fabrication was up to scratch the temps would head higher and I would have to do a couple of cool down laps. However now even more thought has been put into the airflow, there is no need for that and I can just go flat out.

I think the main problem with many coolers that are fitted is that not enough though is given to how the air flows through them.

 

I have not let mine go above 110 although i noticed it gets there quicker now. With sc42 based turbo compared to stock vf.
Ive never been on track with my car though.
As i have a stock bottom end with around 400bhp i dont want to push my luck with that either.
But i may let it go that bit further now knowing folk have see 130ish.

 

Never said anything about cool down laps, I meant I'll have to keep an eye on it and see what temps I get to before deciding I need one.


Yes, I'll just asses and see, so from your reckoning, if I see 120c or over regularly or easily then it's best I get one? Below that temp don't need one?
What temps you reckon before I need one?

 

I'd probably go for placing it either behind fog cover with a open vent so it has a good exit, or behind grill, but not a great exit point.

 

To answer the question.

I would definitely focus on putting the best oil at the right grade in that you can. And changing it regularly.That is the key factor and where to spend the money.

The best in my book is
Silverline Synionic
Then something like
Royal Purple, Fuchs, Motul

Given that you are running a high end oil. I would not worry at 120degrees. As I mentioned if you begin to see north of 130 for prolonged periods then that is the time to think about a cooler.

If it turns out you have to go with a cooler then the main thing to get right is to manage the airflow out the back.

If the air is going in the front and then is dead out the back it is just acting as a placebo and not doing its job and that is the main problem with the way many coolers are fitted. It took a few goes to get it right on my car. Eventually Matty/Yam at MB developments did a cracking fabrication job.

I also saw a temperature drop from using Fuchs 10/50 (good oil that it is) to moving to Silverline Synoinic 10/50

Hope this helps
Cheers
Steve

 

Thanks Steve, points noted, gives me something to work with.
Yes I do regular oil changes probably every 1-2k miles tbh as most of time cars just sat there and I feel oils not getting properly used.
I did see that thread on silver line and will be getting on next oil change.

 

I would also say Busta that it is also down to spec of the engine as well.

My engine is not another forged engine. It is a very very good high compression engine with forged components in a CDB with a lot of work put into the tolerances ect, blah blah yawn...you get the picture. It is designed to be pushed hard and operate at a relatively high temps.

On a lesser modified engine I would be watching the temps a bit more. So I would look at your build and have it in your head given its spec as to how comfortable you are with running it at higher temperatures.

If it is all singing and dancing and you put an oil in that is designed to operate at high temps. Then there should not be a problem.

 

I do a lot of driving in mountainous areas of Europe and going uphill in 25 degree temperatures in Spain I can go from 90 to 120 in less than five minutes on an LM450.

Personally I would not be comfortable running above 120 for any extended period of time even with a top quality ester. The oil manufacturers might say it's fine but I'd rather not take the risk. I feel the same with service intervals on modern cars - sometimes they can go 20+k miles without a scheduled oil change but I'll always change the oil more frequently than that.

 

I don't know why you'd need an oil cooler, on a pure road car.
If it's a road/track car, with an oil cooler, I'd be concerned to maintain 85/90Deg min to burn away deposits within the engine.

 

Ok, mine not forged either but a good v8 bottom end and jdm avcs heads with 1.1mm rcm gaskets, nothing spectacular but I am trying to push it as deemed possible on turbo with meth to come running anywhere from 1.7-2bar.
So will keep an eye and asses.
I did have coolant issues though, but I've fitted a couple of parts to combat that at high boost.

 

no oil cooler, no modine here, 350+ BHP for 18 months plus

 

I fitted mocal 19 row in place of the tmic should have car back soon it is a fast road car went for the cooler as a precaution they're cheap anyway couple hundred notes

 

19row.....?

That's quite extreme, there is no way you need one that big. I hope you got a thermostatic control for it...

 

That's exactly what the spec c sits at during normal road use

 

I would keep the OEM water stat or you will get seriously low temps in winter

 

It's got thermostat in it. I gone Ott with everything I'm my head I always thought I could go 2.35 roated the cooling brakes suspension etc wouldn't need upgrading again.

 

Will do thank man

 

Wouldn't an unnecessary oil cooler risk keeping oil temps too low? But assuming one is required where's the best place to fit it? I've seen some with the oil cooler stuck where the TMIC used to live, on top of the engine. Presumably this isn't the best place?