tmic v fmic for vf34 ????
04 November 2016, 12:26 AM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tmic v fmic for vf34 ????
hi , currently set up with a fmic on the vf34, but I have heard from a guy who is pretty clued up he suggests a sti top mount would be better? I have a feeling theres some truth in that. what improvement would this deliver if much?. 
the cars set up alcatek with 3 port .rcm fuel pump, and 440 s. and fuel lab pressure reg.
the cars set up alcatek with 3 port .rcm fuel pump, and 440 s. and fuel lab pressure reg.
04 November 2016, 08:12 AM
#2
In most applications a newage sti top mount would be the best option for setups under 400 bhp. The larger front mount core and extended pipework will just induce turbo lag and wont net you any more power with your current turbo. Fitting a top mount should gain you some earlier spool, would be wise to get your boost and fueling checked if you do replace it 
04 November 2016, 09:32 AM
#3
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pinching one out
Posts: 561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In most applications a newage sti top mount would be the best option for setups under 400 bhp. The larger front mount core and extended pipework will just induce turbo lag and wont net you any more power with your current turbo. Fitting a top mount should gain you some earlier spool, would be wise to get your boost and fueling checked if you do replace it
Have you ever done back to back testing on a dyno, same day, same turbo, same mapper, same fuel in the car?
The test that were done in that exact way prove at 300bhp a front mount will gain about 20bhp and lag isn't noticeable on a well setup car.
At 400 an sti top mount is going to struggle with temp issues.
On a vf34 chuck a front mount at it.
04 November 2016, 03:39 PM
#4
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks for above , indeed I think both points seem valid. the car was mapped by bob rawle 2 years back, and he seemed fairly pleased at the time. but as yet no RR report . certainly pulls ok though.
04 November 2016, 10:09 PM
#6
In the greater scheme of things the VF34 is on the smaller side of turbos, being a ball bearing turbo it's strenth lies in it's quick spool over something like a VF35.
Top figures available from a VF34 will be in the region of 350/360bhp with the quick spooling of the ball bearing being it's advantage over equivalent and much larger turbos.
Fitting a front mount basically nullifies this advantage as the STI top mount and air box is the best option up to and beyond this point, in fact the reality is that you really want to keep the airbox and top mount on an STI up to until around the 400 mark.
Otherwise you'll be driving everywhere above 4k rpm, which is fine if that's your thing.
Top figures available from a VF34 will be in the region of 350/360bhp with the quick spooling of the ball bearing being it's advantage over equivalent and much larger turbos.
Fitting a front mount basically nullifies this advantage as the STI top mount and air box is the best option up to and beyond this point, in fact the reality is that you really want to keep the airbox and top mount on an STI up to until around the 400 mark.
Otherwise you'll be driving everywhere above 4k rpm, which is fine if that's your thing.
05 November 2016, 12:23 AM
#7
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I usually drive around town at 2000 rpms generally. yes bob didn't make any comment on the fmic it was actually fitted by mark at thwaites warwick very well done job. we replaced the waste gate on the old td04 so we could improve the boost he managed 282 bhp ! very nippy, that was with the front mount.then put vf on 4 months later. it looks like swings and round abouts , and partly down to ambient air temps. think I will stick with current fmic.
Trending Topics
06 November 2016, 09:32 PM
#9
Afraid your wrong.
Have you ever done back to back testing on a dyno, same day, same turbo, same mapper, same fuel in the car?
The test that were done in that exact way prove at 300bhp a front mount will gain about 20bhp and lag isn't noticeable on a well setup car.
At 400 an sti top mount is going to struggle with temp issues.
On a vf34 chuck a front mount at it.
Have you ever done back to back testing on a dyno, same day, same turbo, same mapper, same fuel in the car?
The test that were done in that exact way prove at 300bhp a front mount will gain about 20bhp and lag isn't noticeable on a well setup car.
At 400 an sti top mount is going to struggle with temp issues.
On a vf34 chuck a front mount at it.
I think you'll find everything in my post is correct
07 November 2016, 08:45 AM
#10
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pinching one out
Posts: 561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As above, it has been tested back to back and proven your incorrect. Unless you have redone the testing?
Guessing isn't the same and actually trying the setups back to back, same day, same mapper even the same fuel in the tank.
07 November 2016, 10:23 AM
#11
A newage Sti top mount in most applications would be the best option under 400 bhp. TRUE
Adding a larger front mount intercooler with extended pipework will induce some lag and response time. TRUE
A newage sti top mount will flow more than a vf34 can throw at it so wont automatically magic you more power.
And yes ive spent several days doing rolling road testing before and after fitting parts including finding the limits of a top mount so im well aware of how components will affect things
This is pretty basic stuff really and for that reason i wont be getting in a debate about it with you
Adding a larger front mount intercooler with extended pipework will induce some lag and response time. TRUE
A newage sti top mount will flow more than a vf34 can throw at it so wont automatically magic you more power.
And yes ive spent several days doing rolling road testing before and after fitting parts including finding the limits of a top mount so im well aware of how components will affect things
This is pretty basic stuff really and for that reason i wont be getting in a debate about it with you
07 November 2016, 10:25 AM
#12
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pinching one out
Posts: 561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In most applications a newage sti top mount would be the best option for setups under 400 bhp. The larger front mount core and extended pipework will just induce turbo lag and wont net you any more power with your current turbo. Fitting a top mount should gain you some earlier spool, would be wise to get your boost and fueling checked if you do replace it
A newage Sti top mount in most applications would be the best option under 400 bhp. TRUE
Adding a larger front mount intercooler with extended pipework will induce some lag and response time. TRUE
A newage sti top mount will flow more than a vf34 can throw at it so wont automatically magic you more power.
And yes ive spent several days doing rolling road testing before and after fitting parts including finding the limits of a top mount so im well aware of how components will affect things
This is pretty basic stuff really and for that reason i wont be getting in a debate about it with you
A newage Sti top mount in most applications would be the best option under 400 bhp. TRUE
Adding a larger front mount intercooler with extended pipework will induce some lag and response time. TRUE
A newage sti top mount will flow more than a vf34 can throw at it so wont automatically magic you more power.
And yes ive spent several days doing rolling road testing before and after fitting parts including finding the limits of a top mount so im well aware of how components will affect things
This is pretty basic stuff really and for that reason i wont be getting in a debate about it with you
07 November 2016, 09:48 PM
#13
well judging by your 143 posts in the 1 week you've been on the site i would say you are our latest expert, scratch that ive just read some of them and thats clearly not the case 
When was it you done this back to back testing with Pat ??
This place is getting more like the crack pot facebook groups by the day, i can see why the more knowledgeable members dont bother posting much any more.
When was it you done this back to back testing with Pat ??
This place is getting more like the crack pot facebook groups by the day, i can see why the more knowledgeable members dont bother posting much any more.
07 November 2016, 10:14 PM
#14
well judging by your 143 posts in the 1 week you've been on the site i would say you are our latest expert, scratch that ive just read some of them and thats clearly not the case
When was it you done this back to back testing with Pat ??
This place is getting more like the crack pot facebook groups by the day, i can see why the more knowledgeable members dont bother posting much any more.
When was it you done this back to back testing with Pat ??
This place is getting more like the crack pot facebook groups by the day, i can see why the more knowledgeable members dont bother posting much any more.
08 November 2016, 12:05 AM
#17
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pinching one out
Posts: 561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well judging by your 143 posts in the 1 week you've been on the site i would say you are our latest expert, scratch that ive just read some of them and thats clearly not the case
When was it you done this back to back testing with Pat ??
This place is getting more like the crack pot facebook groups by the day, i can see why the more knowledgeable members dont bother posting much any more.
When was it you done this back to back testing with Pat ??
This place is getting more like the crack pot facebook groups by the day, i can see why the more knowledgeable members dont bother posting much any more.
It was done for jap performance mag years ago. The laws of physics havnt change in that time have they?
When you have been around subaru long enough there's very little new that hasnt been done before.
Was also alot of testing on the subject done by the late Harvey Smith. Or are you claiming he doesn't know what he was doing either?
Talk about arrogance.
08 November 2016, 12:38 AM
#18
Im far from arrogant, the op asked a question to which i kindly gave him a valid answer. You decided to add to your post count and tell me im wrong which i politely pointed out was in fact correct.
What point is it your struggling with exactly ??
What point is it your struggling with exactly ??
08 November 2016, 08:55 AM
#19
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pinching one out
Posts: 561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
14 November 2016, 10:12 PM
#20
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: somerset
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Top mount intercooler do not get much air flow at high speed, so you loose power the faster you go!
Top mounts also soak up a lot of heat which rises from the engine, so when you're stopped at a set of lights or warming your engine up you're warming the intercooler too, they cool down when they get air flowing through and around them
So really, I'd always ask what the car is being used for before saying I'm right or wrong with a definitive answer
I.e. rally car running 2+bar & anti lag 100% front mount, well mid mount cos you don't want an intercooler anywhere too vulnerable.... it's not all straight cut one answer fits all stuff
Top mounts also soak up a lot of heat which rises from the engine, so when you're stopped at a set of lights or warming your engine up you're warming the intercooler too, they cool down when they get air flowing through and around them
So really, I'd always ask what the car is being used for before saying I'm right or wrong with a definitive answer
I.e. rally car running 2+bar & anti lag 100% front mount, well mid mount cos you don't want an intercooler anywhere too vulnerable.... it's not all straight cut one answer fits all stuff
22 November 2016, 08:17 AM
#23
I should add that I had a VF34 on my V3 STI Type R with a top mount, mapped by Pat, it only made 331 bhp but it went like a bat out of hell.
As I said in my post above, VF34 is a ball bearing turbo and it's appeal lies in it's quick spool, ultimately it depends what you like from your car, I like that sense of urgency and a car that picks up from next to nothing, then just keeps going with no gaps in the forward motion, without it screaming it's **** off.
The sort of roads I like to drive on you may just about see a ton before you're back on the brakes, if your car picks up well enough, so high speed / top speed is of no interest to me, maybe on a long straight 120mph for a few seconds, beyond that buy a 1000cc sports bike or a BMW straight 6, because these cars aren't about high speed cruising.
As I said in my post above, VF34 is a ball bearing turbo and it's appeal lies in it's quick spool, ultimately it depends what you like from your car, I like that sense of urgency and a car that picks up from next to nothing, then just keeps going with no gaps in the forward motion, without it screaming it's **** off.
The sort of roads I like to drive on you may just about see a ton before you're back on the brakes, if your car picks up well enough, so high speed / top speed is of no interest to me, maybe on a long straight 120mph for a few seconds, beyond that buy a 1000cc sports bike or a BMW straight 6, because these cars aren't about high speed cruising.
Last edited by ditchmyster; 22 November 2016 at 08:18 AM.
22 November 2016, 01:48 PM
#25
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pinching one out
Posts: 561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
and whys that?
some of us have been around long enough to have heard it all before and remember when things were tested because it wasn't know.
Back in the day most things were tested back to back, like TMIC vs FMIC, just because people weren't around then so don't know about it isn't my problem. Why do you think none of the tuners bother on here anymore? They can't be bothered to argue with people guessing rather than actually hard fact.
Two different cars isn't a way to compare parts, they perform differently and respond differently. I remember a thread where the late great Harvey smith and Pat Herborn were talking about that very thing, turbo's getting different results even on same spec cars as it happened to be.
Your car, you make the choice. I'm out
some of us have been around long enough to have heard it all before and remember when things were tested because it wasn't know.
Back in the day most things were tested back to back, like TMIC vs FMIC, just because people weren't around then so don't know about it isn't my problem. Why do you think none of the tuners bother on here anymore? They can't be bothered to argue with people guessing rather than actually hard fact.
Two different cars isn't a way to compare parts, they perform differently and respond differently. I remember a thread where the late great Harvey smith and Pat Herborn were talking about that very thing, turbo's getting different results even on same spec cars as it happened to be.
Your car, you make the choice. I'm out
22 November 2016, 02:34 PM
#26
Funny as your username that you're hiding behind says you've only been around for 1 month! Very long time that!
Why not tell us good folks who you actually are? Or at least who you were in a previous life? PSLewis maybe? lol
I don't wish to be someone else drawn into an argument with you, which seems to be happening all too often on here now.
Why not tell us good folks who you actually are? Or at least who you were in a previous life? PSLewis maybe? lol
I don't wish to be someone else drawn into an argument with you, which seems to be happening all too often on here now.
Last edited by BrownPantsRacing; 22 November 2016 at 02:36 PM.
22 November 2016, 02:47 PM
#27
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pinching one out
Posts: 561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Funny as your username that you're hiding behind says you've only been around for 1 month! Very long time that!
Why not tell us good folks who you actually are? Or at least who you were in a previous life? PSLewis maybe? lol
I don't wish to be someone else drawn into an argument with you, which seems to be happening all too often on here now.
Why not tell us good folks who you actually are? Or at least who you were in a previous life? PSLewis maybe? lol
I don't wish to be someone else drawn into an argument with you, which seems to be happening all too often on here now.
Only with certain people, basically those who havn't been around scoobs anywhere near as long. While times and tuning does change, the same old questions get asked that were 10 years ago. Difference is no one is doing proper testing to find out the answer, its all mines better than yours.
Only way you can truly test parts is back to back on a dyno, same car, same mapper, same fuel.
But i suppose that's wrong as well eh.
Anyway, I'm out
22 November 2016, 07:50 PM
#28
Sounds good, but thing is no two cars are the same, regardless of spec, you'll only ever get an approximation.
Everyone want's and likes different characteristics in their driving experience.
General rule of thumb is going over 400bhp = front mount below that will presume a 350 bhp capable turbo because not many people aim for 370bhp.
Turbo's tend to go up in 50bhp increments so as above if your looking for 350 ish then you're probably better off sticking with the top mount, small gains in numbers can be seen from around the 320bhp mark but these are generally offset by lag.
How noticable that is is going to depend on what you are used to.
Ultimately your decision should be based on what your car will be used for.
Everyone want's and likes different characteristics in their driving experience.
General rule of thumb is going over 400bhp = front mount below that will presume a 350 bhp capable turbo because not many people aim for 370bhp.
Turbo's tend to go up in 50bhp increments so as above if your looking for 350 ish then you're probably better off sticking with the top mount, small gains in numbers can be seen from around the 320bhp mark but these are generally offset by lag.
How noticable that is is going to depend on what you are used to.
Ultimately your decision should be based on what your car will be used for.
The following users liked this post:
but don't you dare post you graph on here as on the bog will only get negative and pull it apart
.