Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

Where do I attach the white wire for the AFR signal to?

ECU or better to go straight to the sensor in the downpipe??
Is it best to source the power supply and ground from the ECU or will any good power source behind the dash be okay?

Car is a MY96 UK Turbo..

Thanks very much

JGM

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

see ECU pin out diagram in other post.
It's the 4th wire up from the bottom connector, B43 Pin 6(white with silver stripes). It is actually in position 6 as 2 positions are not used.

[Edited by Scott.T - 1/1/2003 3:25:39 PM]

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

Thank you..

Jolly Green Monster 2

I am an idiot!!!

Had taken the ECU out to fit an Upgrade and so couldn't tell which was the bottom plug/socket..

Put it back in and it is obvious!

Car goes much better!

AFR not working properly though.. if connected to ecu signal I get nothing... if I then disconnect the ecu signal it lights the red, then green, then yellow and stays on Blue LED like a start up sequence.. connect to signal again and the blue light goes out!!??

Any ideas?

JGM

Jolly Green Monster 2

STE.W,

Thank you for your amusing yet informative reply!

I tried it thie morning driving to work as I decided I must be on the correct wire and sure enough it worked... then stopped working but that turned out to be my temp connection coming off.

I have currently positioned it in the top right hand air vent (Early dash) along with my boost gauge so it is not directly infront of me but still visible and nice and bright whilst it is a novolty for the moment. I left plenty of length on the wires so can move it later.. good point though..

The one thing I am confused on is what is WOT... on boost or when foot to the floor? for example in 5th at 2,000rpm and floor it and it slowly builds to 3000rpm with red light on.. get to 3000rpm and full boost and red changed to green, then yellow, then blue which remains on until off throttle..
I know you ignore it whilst not on WOT but is 2000rpm off boost but foot to floor WOT??

Sensible flickers of lights whilst off boost as reasuring other than the red light on full throttle.

Cheers

JGM

Jolly Green Monster 2

So you mean the car is probably running normal but I should run it at that rpm in 5th at full throttle as it is running lean..
or that there might be problem causing it to run lean and it shouldn't be?

Interesting.. I was just coming to the conclusion that it only of use under full boost and WOT..

Thanks for the input Chris and I hope you don;t mind but I am for ever linking you ECU web pages and used them lots myself as they are very useful.

Cheers

JGM

STE.W.

Chris, JGM, I hope the information I gave was correct.

I have taken extra precautions on myne with the aid of a Knocklink.

If I put my foot down in any gear when the engine is up to temp. the AFR always goes to the blue light and I dont see knock at all on my link.

I think it goes to the blue light even with moderate pressing of the accel pedal but the way I drive its usually floored when Iam checking things!!

My car by the way is an my 94 legacy and they are even less economical than the Imprezas. I think they just pour the fuel in at any throttle position. On a sprited drive and use 25 squids of fuel in 60 - 80 miles quite easily!

JGM have you been out in the dark with the lights yet? Are they out of your line of site or are you still seeing stars??

All the best
STE.W.

Jolly Green Monster 2

Chris,

I hear what you are saying mate.. I do a lot of motorway miles and often slow in 5th when the traffic does and then floor it in 5th to accelerate back up.. I shall try and avoid it now.. as the red light is rather off putting and what you say makes perfect sense. I bought the car two years ago with 73,000miles on it and have since upped that to 115,000miles.. so I would hope that the ECU is managing to solve the mixture for me but I shall stop assuming that now.

I noticed the reading drop slightly tonight when I put my foot down alot this evening and the engine / exhaust temp was hot.. been on and off boost for a bit.. then Blue light but green on slightly too.. the under reading you talk about briefly I guess.


STE.W,

The LED's are bright but I have them to the left in the air vent next to my boost gauge and three switches and the lights are bright but not in my direct view.. I can see them in the dark or the daylight with out looking and it is infact damn near perfect in that sense.. Whether I illuminate at night when the lights are on I don't know.

JGM

Jolly Green Monster 2

It is a very horrible thing re-reading posts... the amount of times I have read a thread that has returned to the top and thought an oppinon and thought I'll post something on this and then find I have already.. and reading a post you made 6months ago is scary...

I didn;t think you were having a go anyway.. what you are saying makes sense... I seen no harm in trying not to do the 2000rpm 5th gear full throttle even if you are wrong.. not that I am saying you are.. the Red light is strong reminder..

Thanks for the help and discussion

JGM

Chris.Palmer

JGM - all the best

Chris

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

I actually was thinking about it on my long journey home this evening.. if my foot is on the floor and the revs at only say 2500 whyc is it not rich rather than lean?? surely it is rich...
the AFR is off the bottom of my Dawes range and then comes up to a red light I then his full boost and the engine speed increases and the mixture richens further to blue light?

Confusing..

JGM

Jolly Green Monster 2

Help!!!

Which one is the bottom connector????

JGM



[Edited by Jolly Green Monster 2 - 1/7/2003 9:19:37 PM]

STE.W.

Hi, I had this problem with my AFR install.

I "THINK" you have wired it correctly but you've fallen into the same trap is me.

You need to get the sensor hot by going out for a warm up run.

I messed on with myne for ages before finally giving up.

It doesnt even work if you sit on the drive at idle for 15 minutes - as I tried this also.

I went out to pick the other half up from the town and withn five minutes the lights started working.

It will flicker up and down the colours like a tacky set of Chrimbo lights but at wot myne lights up the blue and holds until you come off the gas.

I took my live feed from a redundant ignition fed live from behind the dash and went direct to the battery for the earth.

Also - try to find a position that allows you to turn the unit on its velcro.(Allow extra play in the wires) I had myne sat on the top of the steering cowl pointing at me. At night the the lights are very distracting as they are well bright.

I moved it in the end to avoid problems with main beam confusion!

It also lights the driver up so people coming towards you see a set of big blue teeth grinning madly at them as you blast past. (neons are so out of date now!!)

Hope this helps.

STE.W.

[Edited by STE.W. - 1/8/2003 8:44:49 AM]

Chris.Palmer

JGM,

WOT = Wide Open Throttle (I'm sure already knew that).

However, as you have now just realised this is slightly misleading.

As what is often simply described as Throttle Position (WOT etc) is in fact really Engine Load - this is a combination of Throttle Position & Gearing + a few other things etc.

This explains why AFR or Max boost in 1st or 2nd differs from that in 4th or 5th.

Hope that helps mate,

Chris

[Edited to add]

Foot to Floor in 5th Gear @ 2500 revs is the best way to test a Pinking/Knock/Detonation Display etc - if you get my drift - I would not recommend it - the Lambda Display is probably correct & you may be running lean


[Edited by Chris.Palmer - 1/8/2003 10:45:10 PM]

Chris.Palmer

JGM,

The ECU does not use the Lambda Sensor at WOT - it uses the MAF, however, the Lambds sensor still displays the result of the combustion - beit closed or open-loop controlled (OK - when cold they provide no output at all - and at high EGTs they also under-read - so please lets ignore these too specific scenarios for the moment)

Hope this doesn't sound too over-reactive but I hate seeing Engine blown messages on Scoobynet. This is not meant as a direct message to you or anyone on Scoobynet - just one of my own "bug-bears" that really concerns me - so please excuse me while I "go off on one" - if just one engine is saved then IMHO - my rant is worthwhile:

IMHO - 5th gear - 2000RPM - WOT - Is the worst you can possible do to an engine - you are more than likely running lean & the ECU is probably struggling like crazy to retard the ignition & prevent Pinking/Detonation/Knock etc.

To try & put it into perspective - Its probably hard to believe but this is actually *worse* than 40mph bouncing off the Rev limiter in 1st.

Please use the whole Rev. Range - ie don't bounce off the limiter & don't run tall. Cruising with tiny throttle 2500 RPM for economy = fine - Foot to floor 6500 RPM, really going for it = fine. But, please don't run tall - if you need to go; just kick down a cog or two to get your revs up first - then floor it

The ECU can cope via the Rev Limiter for too much Revs & Fuel Cut for too much Boost. But when it comes to load - eg "running tall" there is not enough ignition retard to cope - I certainly believe this to be the case on the early models (Ok - this is where my only real experience lies & may not be the case with later models).

As you may be aware I play with ECU remaps - the certain & guaranteed way to test for Overboost etc is unfortunatly to drive as you have described. I do it for a couple of seconds max in my own car when testing ECUs, I then install into customer cars' - it is probably killing my own car

Hope I haven't come across as being melodromatic - but this is something close to heart - I just hope someone reads this - simply changes their driving style & saves their engine.

Apologies - rant mode off,

Chris

[Edited by Chris.Palmer - 1/9/2003 12:18:55 AM]

Chris.Palmer

JGM,

I'd had a few last night when I wrote that - this morning I cringed when I re-read it

If it's any concellation - I do alot of motorway miles too - it is ohh so easy to sit in 5th let the speed drop & then just squeeze the throttle just a little bit - then a little bit more etc - to get back up to speed (I've done it myself - it is ohh so easily done - & it was under these exact conditions that I first realised the risks).

Thanks for reading between the lines - & taking the message for which it was intended - & not taking offence.

Thanks again & all the best,

Chris

[Edited by Chris.Palmer - 1/10/2003 12:05:47 AM]

Charlie H

I can confirm what Chris was saying about "running tall" as I tried it out in the works landrover and sure enough, floor it at 2000 rpm in 5th and you can really hear the pinking I don't try it the scoob though

[Edited by Charlie H - 10/9/2003 3:48:55 PM]

mr smash

A very interesting and informative thread [chris palmers input] i think is worth putting on the general discusion forum so more people can reep the benafit of reading it.AS u say if it saves just 1 person a new engine its worth it...hats off m8.

[Edited by mr smash - 10/9/2003 7:23:07 PM]

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

My AFR has been out of action for a while but now it’s working again. I also have a knocklink, which seems to be functioning OK. My problem is that its rare to see the 870mv led on my ‘John Banks’ home made special anymore. I’m not sure if its telling me that I’m lean, that the MAF has gone/going or that it just needs recalibrating?

The knocklink is relatively quiet with the usual first greens on WOT @ 4k etc so is the AFR sick and just a red herring?

F

john banks

Recalibrate it with a dummy voltage