Gridlock Mikey

Whatever it is, it seems to take ages to get to any decent reading. Even way after the car has losened up and feels right

What temperature is normal operating temp?

My gauge is in Farenheit by the way and the sensor if over the 3rd piston as opposed to being exposed to wind chill in the sump bung.

Mikey

[Edited by Gridlock Mikey - 10/9/2003 2:40:04 PM]

Abbylad

iTrader: (4)

maybe the gauge or temp sensor is fooked

Adam M

mikey,

weren't yout he guy who said measuring things makes you paranoid? and sod it, just drive it and enjoy it?

Personally i wouldn;t boot it before 80 degrees c, and would be concerned if oil temp went over 105/110.

Gridlock Mikey

Adam M, you are indeed totally and utterly right

I fitted some gauges cos i wanted the car to look more interesting inside and see what's happened It make's you bloody inquisitive and as such paranoid! Not really, just wanna clarify summat.

I have the following gauges:
Boost: Cos it gives me summat to talk about down the pub and it amuses my mates when it moves
AFR: Cos it looks cool at night
Oil Temp: So i know when to boot it

My post was born because all things being equal and according to some on Scoobynet, i'd have to drive my car like a tart for 12 miles before "letting loose". That's gotta be absolute bollox!

Mikey

nellie

i changed oils from motul 300v 5/40 to motul 300v 15/50 and the normal running temp on my defis went up 5 degrees from 95 to 100 degrees,hope thats normal GULP!!!!

WR-MIKE

My oil temp is also in Farenheit and the sensor is also over number 3. The normal running temp is 210 (99 deg c). I have been thinking about getting an oil cooler as I think this is a bit hot (but not got round to it yet) hope this helps, Mike.

smellyvag

AJKS,


Interested in your comments, at brands today, got exactly the same readings doing exactly what you did using exactly the same guage and sender?

In your opinion doesnt 121 degrees make you concerned and seem high?

Could you tell me what mods, boost you run please?

[Edited by smellyvag - 11/10/2003 9:20:57 PM]

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

Mine read 80 Degree's C in the sump, maybe a little cooler then that measured above No.3 but it's constantly 80 and does not get effected by wind chill or high speeds.

Once it's at 80 it's pretty much stays there, maybe 85-90 if in heavy traffic.

Fuzz

I'd agree with not thrashing the thing til it reaches 80 deg c.
Mine sits around 90 (sump guard removed, sensor above No 3, but then I've usually got her in a gear that's "good to go".
I can get it to 110 with some very hard driving on the road.

Running Mobil 1 MS

Andy

ozzy

Mikey, depending on the ambient temperature outside (my car is garaged overnight ) it can start obviously pretty low (8 deg C is the lowest I've seen since fitting the gauge a few weeks ago).

My daily commute last about 25-30mins. First 5 mins are B-roads, but then I'm onto the Motorway and @ a 65-75 mph cruise it takes a good 10 mins to get up around 80-84 deg C. A 3-figure cruise would see it into the 90's. Most I've ever seen is 98 deg C after a quick blast.

What really surprised me is the amount of time it takes for the car to get up to a decent temperature - best part of 15 mins

Stefan

StanS

iTrader: (3)

My SPA digital sensor is over no3, and reads 80C (eventually) and 85C after a blat. This is noticeably less than the Autometer analogue gauge I had before. I take reading as a guide rather than difinitive temp. If it goes a lot over norm I'd panic !

No oil cooler - will wait to see what temp it hits on a track day.
Stan

harvey

iTrader: (48)

High 70s to low 90s depending on the ambient temperature and revs used. More when wellying it. Thin oil runs cooler than thick. Can typically take 8 to 10mls to warm up to full operating temp and in winter oil might be in low 70s after an urban journey of 18mls at up to 75mph. Takes far longer to get to operating temp that most people realise and water temp is not an indicator of operating temp.

Gridlock Mikey

So when people go out on track and do a warm up lap, they should in theory be doing a warm up 4 or 5 laps! Now before you say that the cars are being warmed up by idling them, i bet some of you can remember the "You should never idle the car before driving it" threads Some don't drive without a 5 minute idle, some get in and drive asap Both styles are wrong according to some I suggest that the oil and engine are "good to go" well before the temperatures that we are told to abide by. As for a cooling down lap, that actually makes sense to me because it's not just the engine that is being relaxed but brakes, gearbox etc.
Some folk on here have had thier cars for years and only used it at the weekends, to nip to the shops and the odd tootle down the pub. They probably, according to this thread, have NEVER been at proper operating temperature

Mikey <With his own un educated, simplistic, often correct, slant >

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Mikey, I have to admit that I've thought the same for some time now. Some say you should wait until 80C before booting it because it'll be at 100% operating efficiency. I haven't seen anybody say what the oils' efficiency is like at say 40C - it could be 90% and at 25C it could be 85%. Lets face it, oil has been designed to do the toughest job in an engine and it has quite a wide operating range, so it is reasonable to assume that it'll work almost as well at 20C as at 60C. If it was that critical then there would be OEM oil temp guages in all cars to stop them siezing, with all those cold start racer rep drivers about.

I'm sure someone will go and find a graph for me to verify or quash my theory.

F

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Mickey: You asked a question. Sounds as if you do not like the answers.
At a race track the car is usually warmed up already to a certain degree. I expect you have already observed that oil is slow to loose its heat just like it is slow to build up temperature wheras water heats and cools much more quickly. From a cold start most wear takes place and that is exaserbated by high loads on the engine or high revs. During the warm up from cold start the components in the engine are expanding at different rates and clearances do not stabilise until the whole engine is warmed through. From a warm start the situation is not as critical because the block and other engine components retain heat and so some heat expansion has already taken place.
All this is well understood by oil and engine manufacturers and the oil companies strive to develop oils which will give better protection to the differential expanding components and protect these engines from the abuse given by some drivers and particularly the problems of cold start.
BTW, in F1 a lot of effort is put into getting the engine to reasonable temperature before the start of the "warm up" lap.

a110

The detail of the oil temp is not so important itself as the clues it gives you on what the engine internals are doing. Hence you can get the water temp up to normal, but the bearing clearances are still too big. That's why you wait till the oil's a 'reasonable' temp. Certainly wait till any cold startup piston rattling has cleared before booting it!

[Edited by a110 - 10/17/2003 6:39:25 PM]

johnfelstead

i dont take the engine above 4000rpm until the oil is 85 degrees C, i dont nail it until its over 90 degrees C. Max oil temp on a Quality oil like Motul or Castrol RS is 120 degrees, ideally you are aiming for a range of 95-115 degrees.

STi's tend to run slightly hotter oil temps at cruise than UK's, mine runs between 100-105 during motorway high speed cruise. Tootling round town oil temp follows water temp closely, under load oil temp runs 10-15 degrees higher than water temp.

AJKS

My observations:

Normal driving: 195-210degF (90-98degC)
It takes about 5minutes before getting up to 195degF. Only seems to get up to 210degF during constant driving – ie freeway.

Track use: 230-250degF (110-121degC)
This was from Phillip Island during Saturdays practice session (so up to 8 or so laps at once) – about 27degC ambient.
If I was being conservative (ie using 5th when 4th would have been preferred) it would sit at 230degF(110degC) but if driven harder it would constantly sit just below 250degF(121degC).
It would take a few laps before getting to 250degF.

Notes:
1. Oil temp measured in the oil gallery above piston number 3 (piston closet to driver).
2. Measured with Autometer 100-250degF (38-121degC)
3. Autometer sender (max’s out at 250degF)
4. MY98
5. Castrol Formula R Synthetic 10w/60 oil
6. Australia - so a bit more ambient temp than you boys (granted Melbourne can get pretty cold in winter).

Adam

macka

I did engineering at college as I'm sure alot of you guys did - we were told by one of David Brown's senior test engineers (DB was actually a tractor engine manufacturer but a good pedigree all the same, before you take the **** - the DB in Aston Martin stands for David Brown!) That 80% of engine wear take place before an engine reaches it's operating temperature due to a number of reasons.

They put an engine on a test bench - started it from cold and put it under full load - it took seven and a half minutes to completely destroy the engine! A soberring thought for all you "thrash em from cold merchants". I inherrited a Nysam Sylvia Turbo from a colleague many years ago - it had 6000 miles on the clock and was bolloxed!

Leslie

The oil won't suffer from film breakdown at cold temperatures, the point is, how well is it being distributed around the engine. When cold the viscosity can prevent good distribution and 50 degrees C was always reckoned as a reliable temperature for proper oil distribution. The full synthetic watery oils are supposed to protect the engine from cold of course.

Les

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

I don't condone thrashing a car from cold and indeed I have been indoctrinated not to drive a car hard from cold.

If you intend to keep a car for a long time then careful attention to warm up times is always a good idea. I just think that there is probably a lot more safety margine than some make out.

My car is garaged and I use Castrol RS oil. I don't load the engine or run above 3000 revs for the first 2 miles and then not above 4000 revs for the next 3 miles or so, still trying not to load the engine. Some of this driving style is down to the fact that the engine doesn't like to go much faster anyway and it tells me as such. This is belt and braces IMHO but my previous thoughts on oil temp still stand.

F
PS I've been at plenty of Subaru events where some people aren't quite so sympathetic with their cars when cold.

Leslie

I think you are very sensible with your engine treatment Floyd.

Les