paulc_percival

After reading several messages on the site about oil, I decided to visit Halfords yesterday to purchase some oil. I intend to give the oil to my dealer tomorrow when I take the car in for it's 1000 mile service.

After spending some 20 mins reading about each oil on the shelves, I decided to buy some MOBIL 1 MOTORSPORT 15W-50. The leaflet with the oil explained that this was a very good oil to use with turbo charged engines. As a previous MOBIL 1 0W-40 Track Record member on my last car, I think the MOBIL 1 scheme is a good thing and I do wish to continue this scheme with my Subaru. I intend to phone MOBIL 1 to find out if this oil is suitable for the Impreza. However looking at the oils yesterday only Castrol RS and the MOBIL 1 Motorsport seemed to be the best ones. However the rating on these oils was different to the handbook of 10W-30 and 10W-40.

Does anyone use MOBIL 1 MOTORSPORT 15W-50, my dealer is happy to put this oil in but will I be okay with the warranty?

Please answer as quickly as possible as my car goes in tomorrow. Thanks

Lee

PE have Mobil 10W/50 in their catalogue and say NOT to use 0W/30.

Since it is a turbocharged engine the oil gets very hot. Therefore you need an oil which remains viscous at a very high temperature. This is the second figure I believe in the xx/yy rating. So applying this to PE's recommendations 50 is much better than 30.

As far as warranty goes I'm sure the dealer would rather you use the Helix recommended oils, but unless you have a failure of a component related to oil type its unlikely they'll complain.

Why not use 2 dealers..I'm sure when they empty out the oil they don't sit round examining it wondering what it was !

paulc_percival

Has anyone used MOBIL 1 MOTORSPORT 15W-50?
Should I use it?

strong

PE (www.powerengineering.co.uk) actually sell the one you got from Halfords -- 15W-50. So you've got the right oil.

Paul.

DYNT

I used Castrol RS (10W-60)for all my turbocharge car without any problem.

Try Castrol RS for Ur next service then.

Cheers ..

paulc_percival

I have just phoned my dealer up, Stan Palmer in Carlisle and the service manager says that they will not put in MOBIL 1 oil in at all. I told them that PE recommended only 1 oil and that was 15W-50 MOBIL 1 MOTORSPORT.
After spending all day Sunday trying to work out the best oil to use amongst this battlefield of subjects, it is very discouraging to hear that Subaru have faxed their dealers saying that if you use MOBIL 1 it will invalidate the warranty!!

After a 'chat' on the phone, I said I was quite prepared to listen to their advice on not using MOBIL but that I was going to insist that MOBIL 1 Motorsport is put into the car. They said that if that oil was used and the engine went wrong at all, then I would lose my warranty!

MOBIL 1 Motorsport is supposed to be a good oil but what are SUBARU playing at?

Have I done right insisting that he uses the oil I have bought?

He also said that any other oil such as Castrol RS would also invalidate the warranty!

I wonder how many of us are driving our cars around with no warranty?!?

Any advice/comments before I drop the car off at 4pm would be well appreciated.

Paul

robski

What oil is the dealer going to use then?

I have been displeased with Dealers (not scoob) before. When I had my celica the dealer wanted to use normal Castrol GTX, and charged about £2 per litre plus VAT!

robski

paulc_percival

I asked the dealer what oil they used and he replied whatever meets Subaru reqts. He would not give a brand name when pressed although I will find out tonight for myself. If it wasn't for a paint warranty job that the car is going into, I am tempted to get the oil changed myself. Apart from the oil and oil filter, there doesn't appear to be anything else that needs to be done?

I have had a lot of bad experiences with dealers (Peugeot and Renault), so much so that when I drop my car off tonight, I am going to get the dealer to sign a pre-garage handover stating that the car has no scratches on, no dents, no kerbing of the alloys etc. This is because of bad service in the past when my Clio Williams (different garage) ended up scratched and the gold wheels all marked due to the mechanics not taking enough care. When told about the damage they just said, it must have been there before. This is not good enough so I will getting the Subaru garage to sign each and every part of my car off. Then if there are any problems, then he will know that it was done at the garage and by one of his employees. I think I may struggle to get him to sign but he can spend as long as he likes looking at the car befoe he signs.

I think I will phone up PE about the Mobil 1 Motorsport 15W-50. They can't be wrong!!

So should I put the oil in?

strong

I've just checked with my local Subaru dealer and Subaru have issued a bulletin stating that they do not recommend the use of Mobil 1 oil.

The dealer is currently digging out the bulletin for me to clarify whether it says anything about the warranty being voided by its use.

If I don't post more details before the car goes in, get them to dig out the bulletin while you're on your way to them. If it doesn't specifically say "warranty will be voided" (ie it's the dealer's assumption) then you could get them to call IM while you're there to sort this out.

For him to say that they can't put an oil in such as Castrol RS sounds like he'll just refuse anything he doesn't like the sound of -- does he have a bulletin from Subaru covering this one?

Paul.

strong

I was sure this had come up before, and a quick search reveals it has. Goto:

robski

Thats the normal Mobil 1, not the motorsport one which is for higher performance vechicles. From experience the normal mobil 1 is very thin, try putting it in a high mileage vehicle, it will use loads.
The motorsport version is much more suited to our temperature range that we get in the uk. You need to point this out to them. Anyone got a handbook available (mines at home) it has the viscosity ratings in it that you should use, and I am sure a statement that says that garde OR BETTER. I am sure you will find Mobil 1 motorsport is better.

Motor oil is a good reveune generator for dealers, they must make 200% profit from my estimates. They buy it in massive drums for starters, not 4 litre cans like you and I.

robski

Steve Prockter

paulc_percival

Cheam Motors (official Subaru dealer) use Mobil 1 Motorsport if you ask for synthetic oil at a service. Tel: 0181 394 2262.

P.S Despite what is said about standard 0W 40 Mobil 1, I used it in my last MY98 for 30,000 miles and attended three track days. Never had a problem.

Steve

paulc_percival

I dropped my car off yesterday evening and the garage will be putting in MOBIL 1 MOTORSPORT 15W-50. However I was told that my warranty would not come to my rescue if the engine failed in any way whatsoever.
The dealer agreed that the oil I had provided was better than the oil they would have put in. However he did mention that another local garage was using MOBIL 1 MOTORSPORT as their own oil and that if Subaru found out they would lose their franchise!
I asked about the fax and was told that there was no reason from Subarau why dealers could not use any MOBIL 1.

However I have the phone number of IM and was told to ask for the technical dept. I might be able to get a reason why Subaru do not recommend MOBIL.

I spoke to PE and the lad there was surprised that using MOBIL 1 MOTORSPORT would invalidate the warranty as he uses it in all his Subarus.

The fact that I was told by my dealer that putting MOBIL 1 15W-50 into my engine WOULD invalidate the warranty. I will phone up IM this morning and post their answer asap.

paulc_percival

I've spoken to IM and they did not have a reason why they cannot use MOBIL 1 0W-40 oil. The message was just passed down to them. They are however testing out the product but it has not been approved and they have advised dealers not to use it at the moment.

However when I asked about MOBIL 1 MOTORSPORT 15W - 50, they informed me that the 15W rating is not good for the tappets and would invalidate the warranty. They said to ignore what PE had said!

So I have asked my dealer to put in their oil, which I found out is Duckhams 10W-30 and I will still have my warranty.

IM did however say that any 10W-XX rating, where XX = 30, 40, 50 would be okay to use, not invalidate the warranty and SUBARU recommend these grades.

So I will use the dealer's oil until the 7500 mile service and then will be using Silkolene 10W-50 which I think is recommended my ScoobySport and by IM!!

I hope this has cleared up the oil issue, I will be off to get my money back from Halfords for the MOBIL 1 Motorsport and purchasing from Larkspeed the Silkolene oil.

Any comments?

aziz

WELL GENTLMEN,

This mobil 1 issue only indicates the lack of technical knowledge that seems to
be the trade mark of the U.K. Subaru importer ...

So 15w is harmfull to your tappets...?!

IM should obtain a copy of the Impreza owners manual and then find someone who can
read English .... No brand names are mentioned in there ONLY the proper SAE
viscosity (and that would depend on the
ambient temperature) , Su baru can not possibly print all the different sae numbers

THEY only say -most clearly- that 0w &
5w oils should not be used ,NOTHING is mentioned against the use of 10w OR 20W-XX
oils at (again depending on the ambient temperature).

SO IM please explain how come 15w-xx
is bad for the tappets, and if you can not
then may I suggest that a third -neutral-
technical party be refered to for advice
on this never ending matter.

AND PLEASE DO IT SOON, SINCE THE BBS WILL
BECOME HISTORY AT THE END OF THE MONTH...

THANK YOU

James Neill

iTrader: (1)

This is a long post - but its interesting. I used to read the uk.rec.cars.maintenance group of which there were quite a few well informed mechanics that posted their. That group was a god send for keeping my 205 on the road. One guy wrote this brilliant post on oil - which provides lots of backgroud. So here it is

*** START ****

From: zoom zoom@premier100.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Brand-name Engine Oils
Date: 13 June 1998 16:58
ENGINE OILS

There are two main reasons why oil is put into the internal combustion engine. The first is obvious, and that is to lubricate the internal moving parts and minimise mechanical friction. The second reason is not quite as apparent, and that is to act as a coolant, and during circulation, carry away localised heat from those parts suffering from friction.When purchasing engine lubricants most people look for the viscosity grade displayed on the container, e.g. S.A.E. 20W/50 or 15W/50 etc., but do not know what this actually means. Viscosity is simply the term used to describe the thickness of any fluid, and bears absolutely no relation at all to the quality of oil. When used in the evaluation of oil, the first, and lower number of the two, signifies how thick it is when it is cold, and the latter, how thin it is when hot. Ideally the lowest possible number first and the highest possible number last. Unfortunately viscosity is only half the story. Old fashioned multigrades like 20W/50's were first formulated in the 1960's, but since they first came on the scene engine design and demand has changed immensely. Furthermore, since 90% of all engine wear occurs within the first two miles of a cold start, it is extremely important to get the oil around the engine as quickly as possible. A 20W/50 or even 15W/50 Multigrade oil is actually too thick when cold, and this is why overhead camshaft (OHC) engines frequently burn out camshafts, these being situated at the top of the engine at the furthest point from the sump. Another distinct problem is that when the oil is cold and thick, it takes a lot of effort for the battery and starter to turn the engine over quick enough to attain it's self starting speed. It is also important that you should never use anything thicker than a 10W/ (and preferably "shear stable") lubricant in any overhead cam engine. Shear stable molecules are those which resist the shearing action of the metal parts within an engine, and without this resistance the molecules which make up the oil are actually chopped to bits. Consequently, in use, the oil loses it's viscosity and protective qualities, very quickly, even within as short a period as 2,000 miles. These shear stable molecules are only found in synthetic lubricants, in other words oil which has been extensively modified, by a chemist, in the laboratory. They are quite expensive to produce, which is reflected in the high purchase price, but the least expensive way to obtain this quality is to use what is termed as semi-synthetic, and is a mixture of highly refined mineral and synthetic oils.

Now if you think that this is expensive look at it in this way, by the time your engine has done around 60,000 miles using a poor quality oil perhaps at £8.00p per 5 litres, there is a good chance that the cam could need changing. If you had changed your oil every 6,000 miles using semi-synthetic, then that would have been 12 changes of oil using around 10 litres at £13.50 per 5 litres, a total of £135 spread over a period of about 5 or 6 years, according to your mileage.

If you have to replace the cam it can cost you about £160 immediately, plus other unnecessary engine wear, plus the money already wasted on the poor quality oil. But, like everything in this world, when something good is invented, there are people who want to jump on the bandwagon, and a number of poor quality synthetics have appeared. The only semi-synthetic engine oil which we use, and recommend, is MULTIVIS 10W/40. Multivis is manufactured by Morris & Co. of Shrewsbury, who have been blending all forms of lubricants since 1869, so they have plenty of experience on the subject. We have also found that after a full engine flush and changing to MULTIVIS, customers have reported a reduction in their oil consumption of up to 25%. This of course makes economic sense, and further offsets the initially higher cost of the oil. The reduction in oil consumption is brought about by the fact that the shear stable molecules found in MULTIVIS are obtained by using polymers of a very high quality, which do not lose their viscosity easily. They are also very resistant to the formation of "Black Sludge". Please see our leaflet on this subject. Similarly just because something is packaged as oil doesn't mean that it is actually fit to be put into your engine. Some so called "economy oils", such as those sold in supermarkets and discount centres, are only recycled - they have been used at least once and then cleaned; they have lost all of the protective qualities, and other additives, that oils should have.

There are problems associated with cheap new oils too. It is fairly easy to achieve a good multigrade viscosity during refining by adding a poor grade of polymer to the oil. These polymers actually act as thickeners to enhance the hot performance of the oil when it is new, but in use the oil can quickly lose the performance expected at the hot end of the scale, even within only 500 miles. KEEP WELL CLEAR - you will only kill your engine.

Don't forget that with cars that only do a low mileage it is even more important to change the oil regularly as this type of motoring tends to lead to the choke being used a lot more frequently and the rich mixture that this produces leads to the engine oil being contaminated turning it to sludge a lot quicker than normal.

Other additives that are put in quality oils are as follows:-

Anti-Oxidants - Reduces the tendency of the oil to oxidise at high temperatures, and resists the formation of gums and lacquers.

Anti-Emulsifier - This is used to minimise the oil's hygroscopic (water absorbing) action. This water is produced by condensation in the cooler running parts of the engine, resulting in a white mayonnaise forming in the filler, breathers and rocker cover.

Anti-Foam - To prevent frothing and aeration of the oil, most important in engines fitted with hydraulic tappets.

Anti-Sludge - Counters the formation of that black tar like substance called "black sludge".

Anti-Wear - Being difficult to maintain a coating of oil on initial start up, these provide a chemical coating or boundary layer on metal surfaces.

Detergent - Has the property of keeping the engine components clean.

Dispersants - Helps to keep impurities in suspension, and neutralise harmful acids which are produced by combustion and also acts as an anti-corrosion additive.

Friction Modifiers - A new technology, improves the friction characteristics of oil.

Pour Point Depressants - All mineral oils contain paraffin wax which solidifies at low temperatures, without this additive oil would have the consistency of grease at 20o C.

Viscosity Index Modifiers - These are added to raise the value of the base oil to prevent the oil becoming too thin when hot. Synthetic oils have a naturally high value.

So as you can see oil is not just oil, much research goes into producing a good quality lubricant. When buying oil it is most important to look for the API (American Petroleum Institute) specification. At the time of writing the current spec. is "SH" (API.SH). Most of well known and advertised oils either do not come up to the SH specification or are not synthetic. This API.SH specification indicates that the oil meets the requirements in it's resistance to the formation of "black sludge", replacing API.SG, the earlier API.SF and the even earlier API SE. It should be noted however that buying from the vehicle main dealer does not guarantee that you will be getting a good quality oil or one to the to the latest specifications, indeed I do not know of any dealer, discount centre, service centre or any other supplier of oils, that would give you the advice printed here. Most of them either don't know or if they do don't care, and are only interested in making a sale.

An finally a word about oil pressure. Most people, including mechanics, believe that high oil pressure is the ideal - this is a total fallacy. Oil pressure is not at all important, OIL FLOW is, but flow is more difficult to measure than pressure. High oil pressure may only be circulating oil past the oil pressure relief valve and straight back to the sump, which is a fat lot of good. As long as oil has enough film strength to support the loads generated upon it, then oil pressure is unimportant. So again a good quality oil wins hands down.

Trevor Jenkins,

Email at zoom@premier100.demon.co.uk
Electrotune; the U.K's most advanced moble tuning service.
The difficult we do straight away, the impossible takes a little longer.
"What? Fix this? Sorry my mate, me name's Trevor not Paul Daniels"

**** END ****

Stef

So what are you saying then?

Stef.

James Neill

iTrader: (1)

I think his basic point is don't worry about oil its just an additional expense and makes your hands dirty and staines your clothes. Just put water in there instead. Of course, it must be distilled though - none of that cutting corners and putting tap water in, it'll just scale things up.

Regards
James

Bob Rawle

Now that does make sense .. I've also heard of knock sensors being moved to alternative positions for the same reason. Have to say I ran a Vauxhall 4x4 turbo (fitted with a hybrid)on Mobil 1 "thin stuff" for over 60,000 miles without any trouble at all ... at boosts up to 1.3 bar.