How to Increase Low Down Torque ?
24 October 2004, 04:57 PM
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How to Increase Low Down Torque ?
Folks how can i increase low down Torque on a WR1 ?
Its all great news 4K upwards but under 4K RPM its rather dead in the water...
Will a Stoker Kit sort out the problem ?
These New Age just seem to have awfull throttle response. Yep Fine if the engine is allready up in the rev range but from tick over, its a slouch.
Has anyone gained more torque low down
A Decat dosent make any difference on the WR1 as the Pro Drive sports cat is great.
any other ideas ?
Brian.
Its all great news 4K upwards but under 4K RPM its rather dead in the water...
Will a Stoker Kit sort out the problem ?
These New Age just seem to have awfull throttle response. Yep Fine if the engine is allready up in the rev range but from tick over, its a slouch.
Has anyone gained more torque low down
A Decat dosent make any difference on the WR1 as the Pro Drive sports cat is great.
any other ideas ?
Brian.
24 October 2004, 05:02 PM
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Boost controller or remap might help a little.
Stroker kit will help. 2.5 transplant probably cheaper.
Twin scroll turbo and pipework from a JDM.
2.5 will set you back about £1200-1300 plus £100 for headgaskets, allow £50 for lubricants and say £500 for labour if you find the right person to do it. Then a remap. You'll need to run a 7200 RPM limit to be sure of the internals though, don't know what the WR1 runs, but I think it will be more like 7600 RPM, so road speed will be less in each gear. See if you can get a shot in a 2.5 car to see how you think it drives and see if it is what you want. Then there is resale value, warranty and insurance to think about on what is a fairly new car.
Stroker kit will help. 2.5 transplant probably cheaper.
Twin scroll turbo and pipework from a JDM.
2.5 will set you back about £1200-1300 plus £100 for headgaskets, allow £50 for lubricants and say £500 for labour if you find the right person to do it. Then a remap. You'll need to run a 7200 RPM limit to be sure of the internals though, don't know what the WR1 runs, but I think it will be more like 7600 RPM, so road speed will be less in each gear. See if you can get a shot in a 2.5 car to see how you think it drives and see if it is what you want. Then there is resale value, warranty and insurance to think about on what is a fairly new car.
Last edited by john banks; 24 October 2004 at 05:06 PM.
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24 October 2004, 07:07 PM
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all turbo cars suffer with low end torque problems because of the necessary low compression ratio on the engine. The best way to get more torque is a capacity increase. More cubic inches as the yanks say. God bless em!
24 October 2004, 07:53 PM
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Should have picked it up yesterday but, although it's now registered and taxed, it's still in bits halfway through having the stereo fitted. Middle of this week now looks likely 
24 October 2004, 08:40 PM
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USDM STI shortblock + gaskets + JDM STI VF37 twin scroll turbo + exhaust manifold + pan + downpipe + remap = the best of both worlds!
Litimports know the solution ah?
JIM
PS: John am I wrong or you converted your motor to 2.5lt?
I ask cause the guy that bought my MY00 asked me many times about and wants to modify it with USDM shortblock but doesn't know what parts it needs and if you can remap it!
Litimports know the solution ah?
JIM
PS: John am I wrong or you converted your motor to 2.5lt?
I ask cause the guy that bought my MY00 asked me many times about and wants to modify it with USDM shortblock but doesn't know what parts it needs and if you can remap it!
24 October 2004, 09:27 PM
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Yes Jim. I can't remap it for him now, having stopped because my main job was getting too busy, I'm now trying to reduce my hours in my main job. Maybe I'm just getting lazy 
The stuff he needs is as for any other short motor swap - gaskets, fluids, labour, remap. If increasing power, all the usual power increasing stuff - fuel system, breathing, turbo.
The stuff he needs is as for any other short motor swap - gaskets, fluids, labour, remap. If increasing power, all the usual power increasing stuff - fuel system, breathing, turbo.
24 October 2004, 09:32 PM
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I dont think the Turbo is too blame ?? Its the Quickness the Engine revs to me by putting the Throttle pedal down.
Its just a bit slow to rev up.
OK lets put it ths way.
Trafic Lights...
WR1 in FAST lane ( second lane )
any other non turbo car in the slow lane.
Both Cars - ON TICKOVER.. TICKOVER !! IS IMPORTANT...
Lights go Amber... WR1 driver Floors the throttle and lets the clutch up slowly
The car in the slow lane does the same...............
Now this is the point where the WR1 is at its worst.... Bog Down... 2000 RPM and its not looking good.
The car in the slow lane is now about 2 cars in front....
The car in the slow lane is now 3 cars in front
WR1 hits the MAGIC 4000 RPM and we are off !!!
1st, 2nd, 3rd.. and why hey The WR1 over takes the car in the slow lane about 20 cars lenghts from the lights....
Hope that explains the problem i have
If Nitros can be injected at low revs it may be the answer... ???
if the WR1 was sitting at the Lights with tick over set to 4000 RPM .. the WR1 would have won...
Its all from Tickover folks,,, the Transformation from Tick over to Super Car, anything below 4000 RPM and it wont happen...
Ideas ??
Has Anyone else had this problem and sorted it out ???
Its just a bit slow to rev up.
OK lets put it ths way.
Trafic Lights...
WR1 in FAST lane ( second lane )
any other non turbo car in the slow lane.
Both Cars - ON TICKOVER.. TICKOVER !! IS IMPORTANT...
Lights go Amber... WR1 driver Floors the throttle and lets the clutch up slowly
The car in the slow lane does the same...............
Now this is the point where the WR1 is at its worst.... Bog Down... 2000 RPM and its not looking good.
The car in the slow lane is now about 2 cars in front....
The car in the slow lane is now 3 cars in front
WR1 hits the MAGIC 4000 RPM and we are off !!!
1st, 2nd, 3rd.. and why hey The WR1 over takes the car in the slow lane about 20 cars lenghts from the lights....
Hope that explains the problem i have
If Nitros can be injected at low revs it may be the answer... ???
if the WR1 was sitting at the Lights with tick over set to 4000 RPM .. the WR1 would have won...
Its all from Tickover folks,,, the Transformation from Tick over to Super Car, anything below 4000 RPM and it wont happen...
Ideas ??
Has Anyone else had this problem and sorted it out ???
24 October 2004, 09:39 PM
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That's why the twin scroll turbo is so good - see from the power/torque curve just how early the 'whoosh' comes in. The whole point of the twin inlets is that energy is transferred more efficiently from the exhaust gases to the impeller, so the turbo spools up much sooner. Don't ask me to explain the physics behind this, but rest assured that it works superbly well.
24 October 2004, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by AndyC_772
A trip to Powerstation is recommended 
So your ride mate .. whats been done and have you a power graph..
Really want to sort out this WR1 Problem..
24 October 2004, 10:01 PM
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lol 
Let me take delivery of the car first! It's brand new ('05 JDM STI) and I've not even got it yet...
The curve I posted is direct from Subaru's Japanese web site, showing a couple of interesting things.
1) 90% of max torque is available from about 2,500 rpm Thank the twin scroll turbo for this, although having the '05 JDM engine helps too (AVCS on both inlet & exhaust cams, bigger ports, better breathing).
2) As soon as power reaches the Japanese limit of 276 bhp, the torque starts to fall off, keeping power at precisely that level from about 4500rpm all the way to the red line. Coincidence? My ar*e. One remap later and the engine is delivering over 300bhp on Powerstation's notoriously conservative rollers with the standard exhaust.
Let me take delivery of the car first! It's brand new ('05 JDM STI) and I've not even got it yet... The curve I posted is direct from Subaru's Japanese web site, showing a couple of interesting things.
1) 90% of max torque is available from about 2,500 rpm
Thank the twin scroll turbo for this, although having the '05 JDM engine helps too (AVCS on both inlet & exhaust cams, bigger ports, better breathing).2) As soon as power reaches the Japanese limit of 276 bhp, the torque starts to fall off, keeping power at precisely that level from about 4500rpm all the way to the red line. Coincidence? My ar*e. One remap later and the engine is delivering over 300bhp on Powerstation's notoriously conservative rollers with the standard exhaust.
24 October 2004, 10:12 PM
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Ok mate.. no probs.. Take Delivery and then a WR1 vs JDM Shoot out at a Rolling road and road test of your Choice ?
the 2.5 will be miles ahead of the 2.0. so its not really a fare comparrisson.
As i need to sort out a 2.0
?the 2.5 will be miles ahead of the 2.0. so its not really a fare comparrisson.
As i need to sort out a 2.0
25 October 2004, 12:22 AM
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Little things like replacing the turbo inlet hose, possibly bypassing the air intake resonator in the wing, or the turbo blanket will all help a bit. A few people have reported noticeable off-boost improvements with an aftermarket TMIC as lower pressure drop there too. Can't honestly suggest they'll transform anything, or be a patch on a good twin-scroll instalation, but they will all help a bit . . .
25 October 2004, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by *Sonic*
Just launch @ 5krpm from the lights, then you will win
If i sit on a red light while reving at 5000 RPM no problem, but from tickover on amber, not a hope in hell
Its more like pulling away in second gear in a type r.. for all those type r owners to compare 1st gear with.
Try a quick launch in 2nd and youll see the problem.
25 October 2004, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by AndyC_772
2) One remap later and the engine is delivering over 300bhp on Powerstation's notoriously conservative rollers with the standard exhaust.
Andy, at the moment, my 7k miles MY03 STi is pushing 311bhp and 331lbs of torque, just with an STi Panel filter
(running optimax and octane booster), your new car should breath more easily than my "old" JDM STi so id expect you to reach above 300bhp without much difficulty when she loosens up a little (she was 288bhp and 297lbs of torque with 2k on the clock though without the STi Panel filter, all figures on the same rolling road).Just change the panel filter and fit the STi one, you will notice BIG gains, especially as it was designed for the JDM STi
Tony
PS, after fitting on the rolling road (car did 2 runs before and achieved above figures) and 2 runs after achieving 299bhp 312lbs of torque, so quite a bit of an improvement
25 October 2004, 09:53 AM
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Quite likely - but I don't want to have to run on Optimax with or without OB.
BP has a monopoly on the garages around where I live and work, so I'll be running on BP Ultimate, like it or not. A remap means I don't have to faff about with octane booster, plus it can sort out the serious overfuelling which dleiberately occurs to sap power at high rpm.
I'll see if I can get a copy of a rolling road plot from Litchfield's demo '05 STI, that car should have loosened up a bit by now and will have the same map as mine. I'm as interested to know how it behaves as anybody
BP has a monopoly on the garages around where I live and work, so I'll be running on BP Ultimate, like it or not. A remap means I don't have to faff about with octane booster, plus it can sort out the serious overfuelling which dleiberately occurs to sap power at high rpm.
I'll see if I can get a copy of a rolling road plot from Litchfield's demo '05 STI, that car should have loosened up a bit by now and will have the same map as mine. I'm as interested to know how it behaves as anybody
25 October 2004, 10:27 AM
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Checking the Graph on the WR1 compared to a Type R and low down Torque is the Same.
Nearly same curve, the WR1 has a steady power output when higher in the rev range compared to a Type R.
Nearly same curve, the WR1 has a steady power output when higher in the rev range compared to a Type R.