Danny Boy

iTrader: (2)

As above really.

Thanks

Dan

john banks

http://www.stealth316.com/images/flowmapexamp1.gif

Danny Boy

iTrader: (2)

thanks John

Dan.

Danny Boy

iTrader: (2)

was just trying to plot my efficency of my tdo4 with the map posted on this thread and the equasions out of 'Forced Induction Performance Tuning' by A. Grahame Bell and they are off the chart, even with stock figures!
Is this right, is the td04 really that inneficient?

Just realised my mistake, got to vary the rpm in the equasion and plot various points, not just put in max revs! DOH

Still at 5000rpm at 20psi boost it's still less than 60% efficent and still off the side of the map and that's what my car is running in the midrange on it's tek3 remap. That must be heating the air a fair bit?

Dan.

john banks

20 PSI at 5000 RPM is a bit too much on a TD04 IMHO - at least on a MY99/00 TMIC. Charge temperatures rose 45 degrees C above ambient at only 18 PSI midrange, tapering off to 14 PSI at 6000 RPM on a MY00 intercooler and TD04 after 5 hard laps of Knockhill - ie under 6 minutes driving hard in a sustained fashion. That is why I always set this as a limit on TD04 MY99/00. I don't want the car going on track and just getting hotter and hotter every lap.

From estimate of VE and that map which is the nearest that is publically available, then about 18 PSI would be sensible at 5000 RPM and about 14 PSI at 6000 RPM, which backs up it being just on the edge on track, or on a hot day, a bit over the edge.

If you have an ECU that measures EGT and charge temperature and can adjust boost and fuelling to suit, like some VAG ECUs do you could get away with running really high midrange boost for torque on turbos that are "too small" to do it in a sustained manner and let the ECU sort it out.

Danny Boy

iTrader: (2)

John

The car is running a stiV5 IC and gruppe-s smalle bore headers, and sti panel filter so it's not standard MY99 stuff, also the map was done by Bob Rawle not myself so im sure it's fairly safe, it just surprised me how inneficient the td04 is.
I have been doing a bit of learning latley and was interested so see what some of theese numbers actually mean, with a view to future upgrades.

Dan.

john banks

With an uprated TMIC (50% bigger core volume) with spray and headers with a hybrid TD04 (bigger compressor wheel and clipped turbine wheel) I ran 19 PSI at Knockhill and the temperatures were more acceptable, but still about 35 above ambient, so I didn't push it harder. How much the TMIC/spray helped compared with the bigger turbo I don't know because they were all fitted and then the charge temperatures were tested.

Danny Boy

iTrader: (2)

How were you measuring inlet temps john? a thermocouple in the pipe btwn the intercooler and the throttle plate?
The boost drops off quite alot towards 6krpm but it's a bit difficult to see quite what it's up to when u r going that quick!
I suppose the best thing to look at would be some logging software like delta dash? but would this run at the same time as my SECS S1003?

Lots of questions but learning fast, thanks for the help

Dan.

john banks

Measured as you say. Datalogging certainly helps, you may be overestimating your boost at 5000-6000 RPM, plus gauges can be quite inaccurate - even posh ones can be 1-2 PSI out.

Danny Boy

iTrader: (2)

John
What sort of thermocouple and read out did u use for the measurements and do you know of a place that sells them?
Looking at getting a larger scoop for the topmount and would like to get some before and after measurements. Also is tilting the intercooler worth it for marginaly increased airflow or is that theory just snake oil?

Dan.

john banks

RS. Used the RS51 meter IIRC, and a K-type mineral insulated thermocouple. If you look back you may find I've posted the part numbers before, don't have them to hand now.

I never played with tilts or scoops. I used a bigger TMIC with spray, but it was deeper rather than larger surface area. Didn't have a huge effect.

Since I saw how effective the FMIC is, I've never measured temperatures again.

STi new age TMIC and big scoop are a good combo.

Danny Boy

iTrader: (2)

No budget for FMIC at the moment, and don't fancy the bumper butchery either. Just trying to maximise the efficiency of the stuff i have. RS meter looks good but is a bit expensive for a one time measurement project.
Do you think the water spray has a noticable enough effect to inlet temps to consider retro fitting it to a uk MY99?

john banks

I only really used it on track. It made a small difference and cost very little - just nozzles and used the headlamp washers.