more disappointing 03 STi PPP Dyno results
#1
BANNED
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: House
Posts: 2,941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
more disappointing 03 STi PPP Dyno results
286 bhp with 289 torque if my conversions from kilowatts and newton meters is correct
Can't be down to heatsoak at this time of year surely
but whats more concerning is that my friends stock 04 WRX made a healthy 255 bhp,sugesting that these particular rollers were a little over generous when handing out the results!!
Jon
Can't be down to heatsoak at this time of year surely
but whats more concerning is that my friends stock 04 WRX made a healthy 255 bhp,sugesting that these particular rollers were a little over generous when handing out the results!!
Jon
#2
It seems to be the norm mate from what has been reported.
Please remember though that the PPP is 305ps, which is 300bhp and 405nm which is 300(ish) lb/ft. Your figures along with others dont sound too far out using a rolling road. Your on about a difference of about 3% which is nothing tbh.
Regards,
Shaun.
Please remember though that the PPP is 305ps, which is 300bhp and 405nm which is 300(ish) lb/ft. Your figures along with others dont sound too far out using a rolling road. Your on about a difference of about 3% which is nothing tbh.
Regards,
Shaun.
#3
BANNED
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: House
Posts: 2,941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also in 'real world' driving conditions.Not only is my colleagues non PPP WRX a nicer(read less hectic) car to drive, it is also in no way any noticeably slower than my STi avec the PPP
Jon
Jon
Last edited by Elmer Fudpucker; 28 November 2004 at 07:21 AM.
#5
Scooby Regular
Jon,
Best mine ever made on rollers was 289/285. Inlet temps/heat soak are the cause, as the prodrive map has a lot more 'safety' features built in and will pull the car back if it sees high temps, unlike the the standard ecu which doen't seem to care.
Thats why standard WRX's/STI's produce good results and PPP's are usually down.
Get it remapped and you'll be very happy
Best mine ever made on rollers was 289/285. Inlet temps/heat soak are the cause, as the prodrive map has a lot more 'safety' features built in and will pull the car back if it sees high temps, unlike the the standard ecu which doen't seem to care.
Thats why standard WRX's/STI's produce good results and PPP's are usually down.
Get it remapped and you'll be very happy
#6
Subaru Tuning Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 7.74 @179 mph 1/4 mile - road legal
Posts: 6,654
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Looking at the pic there is no way your TMIC is getting much cooling air through it, this will kill the power reading and it may take some time for the ECU to readjust to 'normal' running again.
Correct me if I'm wrong but is that car not tied down ?
Andy
Correct me if I'm wrong but is that car not tied down ?
Andy
#7
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: 1600cc's of twin scroll fun :)
Posts: 25,565
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Andy is right there, the scoop on the bonnet is there for a reason
You are suppose to close the bonnet when you do a run (not fully though) so that the air can go though the scoop and onto the intercooler.
Also running without straps is pretty dangerous, thats why they are strapped in so that if anything happens the car wont fly off the rollers
Tony
You are suppose to close the bonnet when you do a run (not fully though) so that the air can go though the scoop and onto the intercooler.
Also running without straps is pretty dangerous, thats why they are strapped in so that if anything happens the car wont fly off the rollers
Tony
Trending Topics
#9
BANNED
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: House
Posts: 2,941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by MADDOG
AndyF, I saw that , just lucky it did not jump off the rollers
regards "MADDOG"
regards "MADDOG"
#10
BANNED
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: House
Posts: 2,941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by marklemac
Get it remapped and you'll be very happy
well I was considering selling it,but I am now going to go down the re-map
route
There is a well respected remapper just across the border in Holland,Mark Verhoeven?
Problem is he doesn't answer his fone or respond to e-mails
Jon
#11
Originally Posted by Elmer Fudpucker
Well all I can say to that is that it had a bigger blower on it than the one at Powerstation and they don't strap the cars down either.
Remind me not to go there.
#12
BANNED
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: House
Posts: 2,941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think this pic illustrates the size of the blower
believe me that thing was chucking out Hurricane Hannah
thats why no-one is stood around the car...they all got blown outside
Jon
believe me that thing was chucking out Hurricane Hannah
thats why no-one is stood around the car...they all got blown outside
Jon
#13
BANNED
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: House
Posts: 2,941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Nathan L
Remind me not to go there.
the 'little knowlege is a dangerous thing' brigade have arrived
#14
FWIW I was referring to Powerstation, the JDM STi has a nasty habit of trying to launch itself off the rollers even with 3 people in the back and 2 straps either side. Don't take everything so personally.
The bonnet should have been down so the air was directed straight through the intercooler. With the bonnet open it just blows around everything, following the path of least resistance.
Regards
Nathan..
#15
BANNED
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: House
Posts: 2,941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah but with my power figures,the car would struggle to get out of its own waylet alone launch itself of the rollers and thro a brick wall
I fail to see how a rotating mass running on rollers can try to throw itself of tho,unless its incorrectly set up of course.
you wouldn't enjoy my job very much then
I regulary have to balance marine turbochargers,some weighing in excess of 2 tons....similar principle,shaft running on rollers at about 1000 rpm
...ain't had one of them come off yet(he says,furiously rubbing a rabbits foot)
jon
Last edited by Elmer Fudpucker; 28 November 2004 at 11:41 AM.
#16
Originally Posted by Elmer Fudpucker
Yeah but with my power figures,the car would struggle to get out of its own waylet alone launch itself of the rollers and thro a brick wall
No I don't think I'd like to do your job pushing pencils is fine by me . I tend to hide round the corner when they run my car just in case. Besides the noise at 8000rpm makes me think the car is going to self destruct
I don't know how it tries to climb out but when the torque cuts in the car just seems to overtake the rollers
Can't you bring the car back over and get someone like Darth Rawle to map it?
#18
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Dorset
Posts: 1,616
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Peanuts
Alright Jon, Ive still got the silencer on
fwiw, powerstation do strap down the front of the car, I was there a couple of weeks ago.
Andy
fwiw, powerstation do strap down the front of the car, I was there a couple of weeks ago.
Andy
#21
Anyway, back to the topic as I appear to be one of the guilty parties taking it off
Don't you come back to the UK fairly often?
Could you coincide a visit over to get Darth Rawle to map it?
Don't you come back to the UK fairly often?
Could you coincide a visit over to get Darth Rawle to map it?
#22
I keep hearing this heat soak issue, but it would be interesting for someone to actually find out at what inlet temps the ignition is being retarded at, so that it could be cross referenced with the actual inlet temps on the power run (just to make sure we are talking apples and apples).
Regards,
Shaun.
Regards,
Shaun.
#23
Subaru Tuning Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 7.74 @179 mph 1/4 mile - road legal
Posts: 6,654
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
The ECU is not measuring charge temp (after intercooler) just the air inlet temperature pre turbo, from this it makes certain assumptions, one of those is that at an indicated 100mph on the speed sensor it assumes 100mph of air blast through the intercooler. On the rollers you may be lucky to get 20 mph air blowing across the top of the I/C (not forced through it) This has the effect of increasing charge temperatures which in turn makes the engine less efficient and more prone to detonation (knock), when the ECU detects knock it retards the timing, making it even less efficient, it's a vicious downward spiral regards the power reading.
Some rolling roads make a realy good effort to cool tmics, recently at Dastek my charge temp was only 2 degrees above the normal road temp and that was running 1.8 bar boost. (dedicated centrifugal tmic fan in addition to main fan)
Andy
Some rolling roads make a realy good effort to cool tmics, recently at Dastek my charge temp was only 2 degrees above the normal road temp and that was running 1.8 bar boost. (dedicated centrifugal tmic fan in addition to main fan)
Andy
#24
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
The recent WR1 shoot-out showed almost all cars to match Prodrives figures, yet the IC set-up is identical to the STi.
Unless Clives RR has an unusual blower, what is it about the WR1 that may be different to the STi (less sensitive knock control?)
A second comment is that I've run alongside STi PPPs on a couple of shootout days with my mine and other WRX PPPs. The STis have problems yet the WRX PPPs get book figures. We're all experiencing the same RR conditions so again, is the STi knock control too tight?
Nick
Unless Clives RR has an unusual blower, what is it about the WR1 that may be different to the STi (less sensitive knock control?)
A second comment is that I've run alongside STi PPPs on a couple of shootout days with my mine and other WRX PPPs. The STis have problems yet the WRX PPPs get book figures. We're all experiencing the same RR conditions so again, is the STi knock control too tight?
Nick
#25
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Solihull
Posts: 1,498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Butty
The difference at the WR1 shootout was that I made sure all the cars started with an intake system that was as cool as we could make it. Bear in mind that our packages are designed to run well on the road where intake temps are generally a couple of degrees above ambient. On the dyno it is impossible to get near this, no matter how big your fan is. Clive would be the first to say that his fan struggles a bit to keep the intercooler temps down and this was backed up by the reduced figures on second and subsequent runs.
A small amount of correction is applied from between 30C and 50C upwards in most PPP maps along with reduced boost above 90C water temp.
Mike
The difference at the WR1 shootout was that I made sure all the cars started with an intake system that was as cool as we could make it. Bear in mind that our packages are designed to run well on the road where intake temps are generally a couple of degrees above ambient. On the dyno it is impossible to get near this, no matter how big your fan is. Clive would be the first to say that his fan struggles a bit to keep the intercooler temps down and this was backed up by the reduced figures on second and subsequent runs.
A small amount of correction is applied from between 30C and 50C upwards in most PPP maps along with reduced boost above 90C water temp.
Mike
#27
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Solihull
Posts: 1,498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Elmer
Those are typical plots where everything is too warm and the ECU is pulling out timing in response to detonation, particularly around 6000rpm. Resetting the ECU will help by removing this learnt negative ignition correction.
Mike
Those are typical plots where everything is too warm and the ECU is pulling out timing in response to detonation, particularly around 6000rpm. Resetting the ECU will help by removing this learnt negative ignition correction.
Mike
#30
Elmer,
I would also suggest that the HP (or KW in your case) at the flywheel & Torque has been incorrectly calculated via the rolling road you have used. Based on Physics the HP & TORQUE MUST cross at 5252rpm..... as it does on Prodrives Power Graph on their site.
What was the HP at the wheels?
Regards,
Shaun.
I would also suggest that the HP (or KW in your case) at the flywheel & Torque has been incorrectly calculated via the rolling road you have used. Based on Physics the HP & TORQUE MUST cross at 5252rpm..... as it does on Prodrives Power Graph on their site.
What was the HP at the wheels?
Regards,
Shaun.