TD05/06-20G
07 August 2005, 12:59 PM
#1
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TD05/06-20G
I am thinkin about fitting the above turbo to my 94wrx. I have heard a few people mention a problem with surging when this turbo is used. What is mean by this and is it really that much of a problem?
Cheers
Nathan
Cheers
Nathan
07 August 2005, 06:16 PM
#4
Surging means that you try to run the Turbo at a certain boost level from about 3000rpm when the Turbo should be getting into full swing/boost but it cant cope with it
i.e. on my car we had to bring in the boost in steps, so that it was not on full boost until about 4000rpm - i.e. at 1.2 bar at say 3200rpm, at 1.3 bar at 3400rpm, etc
And mine was one of many that did this and it was mapped by someone very competent
What Andy didnt tell anyone was that you needed to faff about with a smaller Turbo intake pipe - about 48mm!!
To say the least I was pissed off - but for the money - YOU PAY FOR **** AND GET ****!
i.e. on my car we had to bring in the boost in steps, so that it was not on full boost until about 4000rpm - i.e. at 1.2 bar at say 3200rpm, at 1.3 bar at 3400rpm, etc
And mine was one of many that did this and it was mapped by someone very competent
What Andy didnt tell anyone was that you needed to faff about with a smaller Turbo intake pipe - about 48mm!!
To say the least I was pissed off - but for the money - YOU PAY FOR **** AND GET ****!
07 August 2005, 06:30 PM
#5
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Originally Posted by Fangoria
Surging means that you try to run the Turbo at a certain boost level from about 3000rpm when the Turbo should be getting into full swing/boost but it cant cope with it
i.e. on my car we had to bring in the boost in steps, so that it was not on full boost until about 4000rpm - i.e. at 1.2 bar at say 3200rpm, at 1.3 bar at 3400rpm, etc
And mine was one of many that did this and it was mapped by someone very competent
What Andy didnt tell anyone was that you needed to faff about with a smaller Turbo intake pipe - about 48mm!!
To say the least I was pissed off - but for the money - YOU PAY FOR **** AND GET ****!
i.e. on my car we had to bring in the boost in steps, so that it was not on full boost until about 4000rpm - i.e. at 1.2 bar at say 3200rpm, at 1.3 bar at 3400rpm, etc
And mine was one of many that did this and it was mapped by someone very competent
What Andy didnt tell anyone was that you needed to faff about with a smaller Turbo intake pipe - about 48mm!!
To say the least I was pissed off - but for the money - YOU PAY FOR **** AND GET ****!
07 August 2005, 06:57 PM
#6
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I have a forged rebuilt bottom end so I thought the 20g would be the best option so I get the most out of the rebuild. Ispoke to andy f a while back and he informed me the intake pipe would need to be about 60mm as it fixes to the turbo. As im gonna run it top entry, the intake I have is already 60mm.
Nathan
Nathan
07 August 2005, 07:55 PM
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YOU PAY FOR **** AND GET ****!
I think the 20g is a cracking turbo on a sti engine. I agree with bob that a 16g or 18g will suit a non-sti engine better.
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07 August 2005, 08:12 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by T-uk
did yours blow up in the end or something?
I think the 20g is a cracking turbo on a sti engine. I agree with bob that a 16g or 18g will suit a non-sti engine better.
I think the 20g is a cracking turbo on a sti engine. I agree with bob that a 16g or 18g will suit a non-sti engine better.
20G was the one to go for.. first bad press I've heard.
07 August 2005, 08:18 PM
#9
No - it was fine - totally over-rated as I had changed it from a VF22 MD195 and the td05/20g actually produced more power on the road but didnt achieve what I expected - it produced about 10bhp more than the VF22
The problem was that I had a 60mm Inlet pipe at the time which I subsequently found out was too big, by those that found out the hard way
I think its fine if you have not gone internal - but if you have and want to run more boost - say at least 1.5bar then this is not the Turbo to go for - better off going for a bigger bolt on Turbo
It is cheap, but dont be over-optimistic with the results - at best this is a 350 Turbo on Optimax - of course depends on rollers. I have seen it consistently be in the 350's - and get into the 360's with Booster variants. You might be lucky to get it up to 380bhp with full bottle of NF and it will achieve in excess of 410bhp with race fuel/Methanol variants
It really depends what you are after - I was not fully informed - and really there have been plenty of threads on this now
so if your at say 300 bhp and want an extra 50bhp or so this is the Turbo of choice
If your at the 320-340bhp and want a fair bit more power this is not the Turbo to go for - far better to get a bigger more decent Turbo - admittedly you will be paying about £600-£700 more but at least you wont be as disappointed - although you may have a bit more lag with a bigger one - but I can comfortably live with that and the extra power - and if you take a drive in Fuzz's car - because he drives like a loon you dont worry so much about the lag but prey for the lag and hope you will survive
Just look at Fuzz - standard internals with a larger Garrett Turbo which comfortably achieves circa 400bhp on Optimax (450bhp on Race fuel) at lower boost (1.4-1.5bar) then I would be running on my sti5 - I would be running the same turbo at 1.8-1.9 bar. So you have a nice spread of available power and are not so restricted
The problem was that I had a 60mm Inlet pipe at the time which I subsequently found out was too big, by those that found out the hard way
I think its fine if you have not gone internal - but if you have and want to run more boost - say at least 1.5bar then this is not the Turbo to go for - better off going for a bigger bolt on Turbo
It is cheap, but dont be over-optimistic with the results - at best this is a 350 Turbo on Optimax - of course depends on rollers. I have seen it consistently be in the 350's - and get into the 360's with Booster variants. You might be lucky to get it up to 380bhp with full bottle of NF and it will achieve in excess of 410bhp with race fuel/Methanol variants
It really depends what you are after - I was not fully informed - and really there have been plenty of threads on this now
so if your at say 300 bhp and want an extra 50bhp or so this is the Turbo of choice
If your at the 320-340bhp and want a fair bit more power this is not the Turbo to go for - far better to get a bigger more decent Turbo - admittedly you will be paying about £600-£700 more but at least you wont be as disappointed - although you may have a bit more lag with a bigger one - but I can comfortably live with that and the extra power - and if you take a drive in Fuzz's car - because he drives like a loon you dont worry so much about the lag but prey for the lag and hope you will survive
Just look at Fuzz - standard internals with a larger Garrett Turbo which comfortably achieves circa 400bhp on Optimax (450bhp on Race fuel) at lower boost (1.4-1.5bar) then I would be running on my sti5 - I would be running the same turbo at 1.8-1.9 bar. So you have a nice spread of available power and are not so restricted
07 August 2005, 08:34 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by Fangoria
No - it was fine - totally over-rated as I had changed it from a VF22 MD195 and the td05/20g actually produced more power on the road but didnt achieve what I expected - it produced about 10bhp more than the VF22
The problem was that I had a 60mm Inlet pipe at the time which I subsequently found out was too big, by those that found out the hard way
I think its fine if you have not gone internal - but if you have and want to run more boost - say at least 1.5bar then this is not the Turbo to go for - better off going for a bigger bolt on Turbo
It is cheap, but dont be over-optimistic with the results - at best this is a 350 Turbo on Optimax - of course depends on rollers. I have seen it consistently be in the 350's - and get into the 360's with Booster variants. You might be lucky to get it up to 380bhp with full bottle of NF and it will achieve in excess of 410bhp with race fuel/Methanol variants
It really depends what you are after - I was not fully informed - and really there have been plenty of threads on this now
so if your at say 300 bhp and want an extra 50bhp or so this is the Turbo of choice
If your at the 320-340bhp and want a fair bit more power this is not the Turbo to go for - far better to get a bigger more decent Turbo - admittedly you will be paying about £600-£700 more but at least you wont be as disappointed - although you may have a bit more lag with a bigger one - but I can comfortably live with that and the extra power - and if you take a drive in Fuzz's car - because he drives like a loon you dont worry so much about the lag but prey for the lag and hope you will survive
Just look at Fuzz - standard internals with a larger Garrett Turbo which comfortably achieves circa 400bhp on Optimax (450bhp on Race fuel) at lower boost (1.4-1.5bar) then I would be running on my sti5 - I would be running the same turbo at 1.8-1.9 bar. So you have a nice spread of available power and are not so restricted
The problem was that I had a 60mm Inlet pipe at the time which I subsequently found out was too big, by those that found out the hard way
I think its fine if you have not gone internal - but if you have and want to run more boost - say at least 1.5bar then this is not the Turbo to go for - better off going for a bigger bolt on Turbo
It is cheap, but dont be over-optimistic with the results - at best this is a 350 Turbo on Optimax - of course depends on rollers. I have seen it consistently be in the 350's - and get into the 360's with Booster variants. You might be lucky to get it up to 380bhp with full bottle of NF and it will achieve in excess of 410bhp with race fuel/Methanol variants
It really depends what you are after - I was not fully informed - and really there have been plenty of threads on this now
so if your at say 300 bhp and want an extra 50bhp or so this is the Turbo of choice
If your at the 320-340bhp and want a fair bit more power this is not the Turbo to go for - far better to get a bigger more decent Turbo - admittedly you will be paying about £600-£700 more but at least you wont be as disappointed - although you may have a bit more lag with a bigger one - but I can comfortably live with that and the extra power - and if you take a drive in Fuzz's car - because he drives like a loon you dont worry so much about the lag but prey for the lag and hope you will survive
Just look at Fuzz - standard internals with a larger Garrett Turbo which comfortably achieves circa 400bhp on Optimax (450bhp on Race fuel) at lower boost (1.4-1.5bar) then I would be running on my sti5 - I would be running the same turbo at 1.8-1.9 bar. So you have a nice spread of available power and are not so restricted
07 August 2005, 09:51 PM
#11
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As scoobydoo says, what are the other options? bearing in mind i am running top entry at the moment and dont wanna get into the whole raising of the inlet manifold situation
Nathan
Nathan
07 August 2005, 10:22 PM
#12
Some will know my car from the Projects thread, and the variability of all RR's and a few we don't fully grasp (me included) like air/moisture levels on a given day, TMIC heating etc, but I may be lucky with a peak of 407 bhp on Optimax/ NF Boost/cold damp morning and the Well Lane RR (?)
The mods were all proven tweeks and all bolt-ons.
Probably 360/380 on real days but very drivable if you get it just up on boost climb at 4000 to 7000, ****** the next gear and repeat etc etc.
Pavlo was the only person to warn me against the 20g for my 'application' of road and hill climbing, and felt the 18g would be better.
Would the 18g give better torque fro a given rpm against the 20g?
Graham.
The mods were all proven tweeks and all bolt-ons.
Probably 360/380 on real days but very drivable if you get it just up on boost climb at 4000 to 7000, ****** the next gear and repeat etc etc.
Pavlo was the only person to warn me against the 20g for my 'application' of road and hill climbing, and felt the 18g would be better.
Would the 18g give better torque fro a given rpm against the 20g?
Graham.
07 August 2005, 10:42 PM
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If your at the 320-340bhp and want a fair bit more power this is not the Turbo to go for - far better to get a bigger more decent Turbo - admittedly you will be paying about £600-£700 more but at least you wont be as disappointed - although you may have a bit more lag with a bigger one - but I can comfortably live with that and the extra power - and if you take a drive in Fuzz's car - because he drives like a loon you dont worry so much about the lag but prey for the lag and hope you will survive
I have never been in fuzz's car but after trying a big bolt on(p450) with a uk 6speed , although on a 2.5 , I can only guess on the huge lag he gets hitting 5th going up the box. a jdm box would probably be nicer suited to the big turbo but thats out even with his stretched UK rev limit imo. I would be interested to see what times he got if he did a 1/4 mile as I would say he will struggle to do low 12's.
07 August 2005, 10:48 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by T-uk
I am mapped only for optimax with a 16g and on two different rollers I am around 340bhp. I think I could fit a 20g and get 380bhp on these rollers without additives so that would be a good gain. I choose not to as I feel a 20g is borderline on a UK (ish) rev limit for driving hard in anything other than a straight line. I do not think my car would be any faster in the twisties with the increased lag and peaking closer to the limiter. I just think too much of the balance is lost even if the 40bhp extra does sound nice. on a drag strip I am sure the 20g would be faster than my 16g but I am wanting what I feel makes the best all rounder , without having to lift the rev limit too high.
I have never been in fuzz's car but after trying a big bolt on(p450) with a uk 6speed , although on a 2.5 , I can only guess on the huge lag he gets hitting 5th going up the box. a jdm box would probably be nicer suited to the big turbo but thats out even with his stretched UK rev limit imo. I would be interested to see what times he got if he did a 1/4 mile as I would say he will struggle to do low 12's.
I have never been in fuzz's car but after trying a big bolt on(p450) with a uk 6speed , although on a 2.5 , I can only guess on the huge lag he gets hitting 5th going up the box. a jdm box would probably be nicer suited to the big turbo but thats out even with his stretched UK rev limit imo. I would be interested to see what times he got if he did a 1/4 mile as I would say he will struggle to do low 12's.
07 August 2005, 11:14 PM
#15
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the sti5 I tried had a 20g with standard inlet pipe , front mount , headers and the usual mods and felt great imo. there was no point revving the car that high , especially over 7500rpm but the option to hold the gear was there , so was useable and balanced imo.
lag is just a trade off with going bigger. I do not mind lag if you can run the boost in the mid-range to be worthwhile and have peak power far enough from the limiter to be useable.
I would say for track work a fmic is sensible but some are getting good results from new age top mounts , which will help reduce lag over a fmic.
lag is just a trade off with going bigger. I do not mind lag if you can run the boost in the mid-range to be worthwhile and have peak power far enough from the limiter to be useable.
I would say for track work a fmic is sensible but some are getting good results from new age top mounts , which will help reduce lag over a fmic.
08 August 2005, 07:12 AM
#16
T-uk's #15 above just about sums my hill climber up perfectly.
If there was ever a need for a flexible mid ranger it is in hill climbing, the ultimate 'B road' blast as the tracks are old B roads....bit like a very tight tarmac special stage and about a mile long at most.
Graham.
If there was ever a need for a flexible mid ranger it is in hill climbing, the ultimate 'B road' blast as the tracks are old B roads....bit like a very tight tarmac special stage and about a mile long at most.
Graham.
08 August 2005, 08:13 AM
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Sorry to jump on the thread..
I was thinkin about changing turbo on my uk impreza aswell as injectors fuel pump and front mount ic, also remap ,but what sort of turbo would i need ?, 16g 18g does mean much too me at the mo ,as i only have limited tech knowledge on turbos.
Could someone tell me what sort i should be hunting for ?.
Dan
I was thinkin about changing turbo on my uk impreza aswell as injectors fuel pump and front mount ic, also remap ,but what sort of turbo would i need ?, 16g 18g does mean much too me at the mo ,as i only have limited tech knowledge on turbos.
Could someone tell me what sort i should be hunting for ?.
Dan
08 August 2005, 10:40 AM
#18
Originally Posted by T-uk
I just think too much of the balance is lost even if the 40bhp extra does sound nice. on a drag strip I am sure the 20g would be faster than my 16g .
I think that the current quickest 1/4mile time on a UK engine is still on a std 16g
08 August 2005, 11:21 AM
#19
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If I were to max out my TD05 before upgrading, what boost can I run and what power/torque could I expect to see?
Nathan
Nathan
08 August 2005, 11:47 AM
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its funny what you are saying steve, i managed 419bhp and 370 ft/lbs on optimax and NF (1 mil per ltr) with my old 95 wrx!
think you should be looking at the supporting mods not the turbo its self!
i am not alone in being able to extract good power out of the 05/06 on a wrx engine either.
each to there own opinion but i hold the 05/06 in high regard and wouldn't think twice about using it again.
think you should be looking at the supporting mods not the turbo its self!
i am not alone in being able to extract good power out of the 05/06 on a wrx engine either.
each to there own opinion but i hold the 05/06 in high regard and wouldn't think twice about using it again.
08 August 2005, 12:11 PM
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I, too, am very pleased with my AndyF TD5/6 - 425BHP/380Ft-lbs on PE RR so knock off about 20BHP (!) for real figures. Pulls well from low down (2k) but needs >3k to overtake, 4k to fly.
Using 75mm intake pipe and the only surging is if you lift off after starting to floor it, but apart from that I am well pleased - good value for money. The Garrett GT30R is about £2k including up/down pipes, so £750 for the TD was good.
Everything has a down side - cost vs minor surge occasionally.
Stan
Using 75mm intake pipe and the only surging is if you lift off after starting to floor it, but apart from that I am well pleased - good value for money. The Garrett GT30R is about £2k including up/down pipes, so £750 for the TD was good.
Everything has a down side - cost vs minor surge occasionally.
Stan
08 August 2005, 04:54 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by jonny gav
its funny what you are saying steve, i managed 419bhp and 370 ft/lbs on optimax and NF (1 mil per ltr) with my old 95 wrx!
think you should be looking at the supporting mods not the turbo its self!
i am not alone in being able to extract good power out of the 05/06 on a wrx engine either.
each to there own opinion but i hold the 05/06 in high regard and wouldn't think twice about using it again.
think you should be looking at the supporting mods not the turbo its self!
i am not alone in being able to extract good power out of the 05/06 on a wrx engine either.
each to there own opinion but i hold the 05/06 in high regard and wouldn't think twice about using it again.
08 August 2005, 06:13 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by jonny gav
LOL...i wish 
lots of mods including 05/06, apexi power fc, front mount, 550's etc.....
but yes it had the stock engine!
lots of mods including 05/06, apexi power fc, front mount, 550's etc.....but yes it had the stock engine!
08 August 2005, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SCOOBYD00
20G was the one to go for.. first bad press I've heard.
I suspect there is 'something' missing with either Steve or his Sti5
Andy
08 August 2005, 08:58 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by Andy.F
The 20g has had lots of bad press.............. however it all came from Fangoria (steve)
I suspect there is 'something' missing with either Steve or his Sti5
Andy
I suspect there is 'something' missing with either Steve or his Sti5
Andy
08 August 2005, 09:15 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by Andy.F
Fully booked until mid Sept at the moment I'm afraid. I'm trying to find some time to get work done on my own race car.
Andy
Andy
08 August 2005, 09:47 PM
#30
Andy
sti is fine - but will never achieve what yours does - simply because I dont have the time (nor more importantly the fact that their are not enough mappers out there to change the map when I change the parts) so I am on the look out for my next car to replace both sti and the wrx04 I have
I think we all know that for me the Turbo was too small
I do wish that I'd gone to Well Lane though just to get great figures - which I know it would have achieved - it did feel faster on the road than the vf22 - maybe because overall it was not as laggy. I liked WL because of the consistency - if it felt faster on the road that usually equated to more power on the rollers (not something that can be said for other rollers)
Re the issues - surge was noted by a lot of people in earlier threads not just me
However as I have repeatedly stated if your after a certain power threshold on standard internals this is the Turbo of choice for the money - and I did get 383bhp at PS on Optimax and NF (full bottle) with this Turbo which would equate to circa 430bhp at Well Lane - I was just commenting that at the RR's I've been to some of the td05/20g's could not achieve anywhere near this (ok maybe slightly conservative mapping?)
Stan - so you didnt use any methanol to get the 425 at PE then?
Having now driven with the gt30 - cost for me was less than £1k after selling my other bits) - but shame that my cylinder heads cracked in half.......
sti is fine - but will never achieve what yours does - simply because I dont have the time (nor more importantly the fact that their are not enough mappers out there to change the map when I change the parts) so I am on the look out for my next car to replace both sti and the wrx04 I have
I think we all know that for me the Turbo was too small
I do wish that I'd gone to Well Lane though just to get great figures - which I know it would have achieved - it did feel faster on the road than the vf22 - maybe because overall it was not as laggy. I liked WL because of the consistency - if it felt faster on the road that usually equated to more power on the rollers (not something that can be said for other rollers)
Re the issues - surge was noted by a lot of people in earlier threads not just me
However as I have repeatedly stated if your after a certain power threshold on standard internals this is the Turbo of choice for the money - and I did get 383bhp at PS on Optimax and NF (full bottle) with this Turbo which would equate to circa 430bhp at Well Lane - I was just commenting that at the RR's I've been to some of the td05/20g's could not achieve anywhere near this (ok maybe slightly conservative mapping?)
Stan - so you didnt use any methanol to get the 425 at PE then?
Having now driven with the gt30 - cost for me was less than £1k after selling my other bits) - but shame that my cylinder heads cracked in half.......