with a tdo4 map installed, and includes ic sockets, inc del.

has anyone ever had one of these fitted and what bonus's/complications did you get with it?

 

there was a group buy on these a couple of weeks back. check the gb section. a few guys have gone for them. give them a shout.

 

just read it mate, sounds like a good thing then!

 

yeah. have been tempted myself. not sure which turbo i have though. have you looked at their site?

i think for what i want it's a cheaper way of getting the result than an apexi power fc. i'm after about 300bhp but i could live with 280

 

i'm concerned that it might make the car bang, what are your thoughts on this?

 

some people choose to have theirs mapped to pop and bang, even when they are remapping the later spec ecu.

i can't see the odd one hurting the car. anti lag pops and bangs will do damage over time. but it should't be making anywhere near that many.

mine already pops and bangs every now and then but that's down to the total decat and atmospheric bov. oh and the equal length headers made a difference.

 

woops sorry i didn't mean bang like that, mine bangs and pops a treat too and i love it. what i meant was that the chip make the engine blow up!

 

i think that it'll be much safer than something like a dawes divice (which i have ready to install on mine). I'm pretty sure that i read on their site that it increases fuelling and adjusts the timing so it's not just a case of more boost.

 

it also says on there that i should get a knock sensor fitted to monitor detonition, which is what kills the car! is this something to be wary off?

 

a lot of people spend money on a knock sensor. my personal opinion is by the time you've noticed that there's detonation the engine should have adjusted to compensate for it. if not it's like it's going to go bang anyway and you won't be able to lift you foot off the throttle quick enough. i've not got one, each to their own. i'm sure people will flame me for that reply but everyone is entitled to an opinion. where's P.S Lewis, he'll tell you what he thinks about knock links. lol.

there is no fool proof way of tuning an engine. things can be done better in some ways to help prevent failure. but your taking risks by increasing the power no matter how much money you throw at it imo.

 

thanks for your advice, its just that i was told that i would just be better off getting the car decatted and then get a uprated fuel pump instead. i just don't know what is the best thing!

 

Youre mistaken; have you been listening to pslewis? The detonation that you can clearly hear and feel is extreme. The detonation which destroys your engine on high boost will go unnoticed. A DetAlarm/KnockLink will bring this to your attention allowing you to adapt. It is a mistake to think that one instance of detonation will immediately destroy your engine.

 

stew911; instead of taking poor advice here Id advise you to contact ESL and speak to them about their product.

 

what is this detonation malarchy? can someone explain it me, i am after all a dunce of a woman.

 

have done mate but have had no reply as of such yet.

 

i did say that it was my opinion. didn't say to take it as gospel. i choose not to have one and i won't be bothering to buy one anytime soon. i've run my classic for the last 18 months without one and it's still running just as well as when i bought it.

 

the reason for why i have bought one is to uprate the perfomance. plus its cheap!

 

I agree I went to ESL last Friday and had one fitted. Give Andy a ring.

 

spoke to andy yesterday via email, has convinced me the car isn't going to blow up, but still hasn't convinced the flamin bloke who i want to fit it. he seems to think just cause its for my car's year and model, it will blow up!

 

2 words that seldom go together well when tuning Imprezas

 

thats your opinion, besides its sorted now

 

and now the wagon has gone bang, so confirmed what i was told in the first place.

 

Your tale of cataclysmic woe continues.

 

detonation occurs if the timing is wrong, or if the fuel mixture is too lean or if the mixture is too hot (eg poor intercooler), or even if there are hot points within the cylinder from carbon deposits. It is the ignition of the fuel/air mixture at the incorrect time (can be before or after the correct ignition time). Ignition of the air-fuel is normally controlled by the spark plugs but it can occur due to heat and pressure due to the problems I mentioned.

An engine can detonate severely or mildly. an engine can put up with a degree of detonation but generally it is BAD as it puts a lot of strain on pistons and bearings.

Knocklinks or detalarms can show you visually the level of detonation occuring in you engine to allow you to resolve problems and make adjustment before serious damage occurs.

The cars computer, the ECU, listens to its own knock sensor, but does not react well in every instance to resolve the problem. The ECU will retard the timing if detonation is detected to stop it. However, the detalarm/knocklink can pick up levels of detonation that the ecu ignores, thus providing you with a warning.

I do not know why the ecu does not successfully prevent detonation in every instance. you would think it's computer reactions should be up to the job. I have read that it does not 'listen' to the engine above a certain rpm but do not know if this is true. I suspect old components, poor knock sensor signals and pushing the car well beyond its factory specifications are more likely the cause.

In any case, I have experience personally, on more than one car, how a properly mapped ecu can significantly reduce levels of detonation, and how this would not have been detectable with a detalarm/knocklink or a very experienced ear.

 

not no more our wagon is sorted now mate

 

what had gone wrong with it then and was it down to that chip or was it just coincedence

 

blew two pistons and fryed the ends of the sparkies. a combination of things probably caused the wagon to det, pushing her to her limit probably didn't help, as well as wrong fuelling, and lack of knock link. everything all sorted now and the wagon is back on the road. had a new engine fitted, td05 16g turbo, unequal length header all nicely mummified, new clutch, fmic, twin trumpet dump valve and to finish it off, a knock link.

 

The ECU will listen and pick up most detonation and will retard the timing when it hears this. 'BUT' it will only retard the timing as far as the ignition base map.

The ECU uses a base map and a knock correction/advance map. It will use the base map plus the knock correction map i.e 18 degree's in base map +6 degrees in Correction map, giving a total of 24 degrees advance.

If it detects detonation it will halve the values used in the Knock correction map, so it will then use the base map 18 degree's +3 degrees from the correction map, giving a total of 21 Degree's.
If det is removed it will work it's way back up the correction map gradually using more ignition advance, so that it runs at the optimum level just under detonation.

It det continues it will half the correction map again, therefore using 1/4 of the available ignition advance.

This process continues until it ends up just using the base map. If det continues at this point the ECU cannot remove timing to remove detonation.

It should be noted though, that when the ECU reduces the amount of timing available in the correction map, it applies it to the whole correction map, not just the load/rpm/boost where detonation is occurring. So you will be loosing ignition advance in all areas.

I hope this helps.....

 

Thanks Scott, that does help alot

 

I’ve got one of these boards on my classic. Not only is it quicker, when I changed the fuel pump/ air filter + other bits. I inherited a slight tapping sound. I changed the ecu to a z4, it got worse. took it to a couple of places. there was nothing wrong. got in touch with esl, and they said it could be the timing set up becouse of the fuel. In the end I brought a UK ecu & got an ESL board. (this is what they said i should do for my uk)It’s gone. There’s no knocking sound, I don’t get even a blimp from the detalarm.

I now don’t see these boards as a chip as such. I see as a device that make the early classics map able.
Worth ever penny