For the huge cost involved, are these really worth the money?

What benefits do you actaully get over standard ECU with Ecutek.

Cookie

 

 

For a race orientated car? Anti lag and things, i think a dual map option (road Race). You also get a crooked tick-over and 'poor' cold start. A friend had one on his Sti V3 RA and it was awkward to say the least.

More sensible (IMHO) is the Apexi FC. (+ a good mapper of course, but you know that)

 

graham, the poor start and tick-over has far more to do with the installer/"mapper" than anything to do with the software..................

alyn

 

I thought of GEMS over an FC because I want anti-lag (yes I know its not big or clever)

The reports on here about cold start issues put me off though.

 

Alyn:
My friend's RA was mapped by (at the time) THE Gems mapper, but take your point totally. The Apexi has a very 'daily driver' cold start program.

Same friend used the RA in hillclimbs against me. With anti-lag on, the Clerk of the Course told him to switch it off or leave the meeting (far too noisey with shot-gun bangs) so he switched it off and went faster....
Never used it again.

I did drive that car on a sprint track and it was a very hard running car when warmed-up with a neat stock engine/FMIC.
Seamless turbo boost, almost felt naturally aspirated.

Graham

 

If you're considering a large turbo set-up such as a GT30R then a MAP based (Autronic, Gems, Motec), rather than MAF (Subaru OEM ECU not EcuTek**) based system would be my preferred solution.


**Ecutek is only 1 of the many software applications used to remap the Subaru ECU's post 2001

 

Totally agree on it being very much down to the mapper.

There were quite a few stories about Motec M800's having poor cold start and idle too, but i have experienced quite the opposite once setup properly.

 

Can't say I've ever suffered from those 'problems' in 6 years.

GEMS/MY99. 390bhp with a itsy bitsy VF35

 

Very good figure for a VF35. Obviously everything else has been done.

 

Rob's GEMS really struggled to get going and keep going when cold and warming up, so much so that he couldn't get it off the trailer till hot.

When hot it ticked-over as if someone was in the car blipping the throttle.

Went like stink though!
Graham

 

also graham, there is no Power FC for 2001- cars so that ones a non starter!!

Cookstar, for the level your thinking, theres little point in changing the oem ecu as its more than capable...

 

even our own competition car that doesn't move very often (last time it sat for 6 months!!) will start first click and then happily idle as long as you want...................
depends on how they are set-up or not as the case may be.............

alyn

 

are you sure thats not just an issue with that ecu ??? as my autronics was a pig to start and mark shead sorted it out straight away as it was a small capacitor change on the board after that perfect

 

I wasnt thinking of getting one, well like you say not with my level of tuning in the near future. jst wondered what al the hype was about

 

i have one for your year car lying in my garage

 

Pm me what you would want for it, (just in case)

 

Cheers Harvey. Yes, most areas have been covered. Response is truly stunning - full boost in the blink of an eye Target is a genuine 400hp/380lbft. I need to change a few pipe diameters - then back to the dyno. Big thumbs-up to Steve Simpson.


Graham - Cold start routines generally vary from car to car and it is probably the most difficult part of the mapping process (with these styles of ECU) to get right straight off the bat. Fortunately I suffer no such cold running issues (with 850 injectors too)

 

Why should cold start be a problem? Surely a mapper just needs to copy the OEM set up? Factor in increased airflow etc. You don't have boost to worry about so should be simpler?

 

Because you only really get one shot, and unless it is v.cold and the engine is stone cold, it's a bit of a gamble (unless you have a pre-tested base map for every type of build), as the variables will be well errr... variable

map a car warm in summer and it may be a pig in winter

Mine is a bit of a pig until it has run for a miniute (2.5, GEMS, 550's, VF22), but once warm, it's fine

 

MAP based ECUs work very differently from stock ECUs. Unfortunately you cannot just copy OEM settings. This is where Ecutek/OpenECU etc remaps score highly, as they retain all the creature comforts (including the millions of pounds invested by JECS/Denso/FHI in R&D).

Each style of ECU has its own pros and cons.

 

Thanks for that, explains it nicely.

 

so aparft from the cold start issues, ae there any other cons to Gems? apart from the cost?

Also do these just plug in (using existing plugs)and completely replace your ECU

 

My P1 will fire but never starts firsts crank, second crank instanly every time without fail, any weather. At the end of the day you are trying to start an engine which was designed using several sensors to aid cold starts, ("correct me if im wrong as I am no mapper") my understanding is GEMS bypasses the sensors & it relys mainly on just a coolant temp to Identify the fuel needed during a cold start.... a bit like back in the day before efi when we all had a auto-choke on the carb'. I would expect lumpy idle to be the result of extended cam duration more than an ecu cause as I dont suffer this. Other than that I cant fault my GEMS, it is expensive but so are many other parts of the scoob tuning range.

Chris.

 

been offered one for my car £600 inc software, is it worth getting to put to one side for future mods

 

If your GEMS is crap on start up... and runs lumpy... its down to the map...
The GEMS on my STi type R is spot on... idles perfect and starts 1st time everytime...
I am changing from the GEMS though... as I need alittle more adjustability for the 800cc injectors i'm fitting...
Something else has turned up at the right price...

 

That's a good price, if you are planning on testing your PPG kit to the full then yes, go for it. It's will also be better VFM over Ecutek. It is a direct plug in, the only additional part is the fitting of a air temp sensor post ic, pre throttle body.

What extra adjustability are you after? and what style of injectors are you fitting?

 

Apologies if I'm butting in....But would like to ask if the vf35 would be a worthwhile upgrade from a vf28.

My v5 typeR is making 336 on its std. internals/turbo with Gems management mapped by steve simpson.

It runs very sweet but the cold start has started to be a pain in its first winter since fitting....No doubt due to steve having to map it in the middle of summer....Think it's time to get her booked in again, whilst the weather's still parky!

 

VF35 may spool a little quicker and possibly gain you another +10hp or so, but I have not compared the two directly... would suggest the VF35 would be more of a sideways step, depends on what you want from the car? Other mods will make more of a difference then the difference between the two turbos iyswim.

 

Need the extra adjustabilty on the fueling side... were fitting V port 800cc flow matched injectors... purchased from Andy Forrester...


s5ooob... When the previous engine in my car was built by Teg Sport... and mapped by Steve... It had a VF34 fitted to it... engine had uprated internals... ( this was all done before I brought it... )
It went like stink... really rev'ed well...
The VF34 is a rollerbearing turbo... which is supposed to handle the boost better... handy aswell if you like flicking the anti-lag on... lol