Had a RR day today, and i got...

335.8 bhp
276.1 torque

what can i do to bring the torque up higher?

my engine mods are..
Apexi power fc ecu
(Mapped Jolly Green Monster)
Apexi power fc commander
Apexi boost control kit
Apexi induction kit
Blitz nur spec R exhaust system
3” decat down pipe with heat wrap
Andy Forrest TD05 20G turbo
Secs 550cc injectors
Front mount intercooler
Fmic water spray
255 fuel pump
Magnacore HT leads
Knock link sensor


thanks Ian

 

Get a 2.5 Bottom end

 

Ian did you hit full boost on the rollers as the figures look a little low for a 20G.

Banny

 

yes clive said it hit full boost, (peeked at 1.34) so just a fraction over.

wil get the graph on my comp and post it up

 

Ian i would suggest getting a an apexi avc-r and upping the boost to 1.5/6 bar to get full potential out of your setup. That should see you around 380bhp and around 340 lb/ft of torque.

Banny

 

here is a link to the graph pic

 

I would say the best thing you could do would be to add a set of headers to the car, this will increse torque. You didn't way what car you started with?

My car with similar mods made 330/305

It's a 93 wrx

Walbro 255 Fuel Pump
Nismo 550cc Injectors
Custom Exhaust From Turbo Back Titanium Back Box
XS Power Stainles Headers & Up Pipe
Hybrid Front Mount Intercooler
Blitz Induction Kit
TD05 18g With Samco 90 degree hose
Apexi Power FC
Apexi AVCR
SX Fuel Regulator
Helix Catch Can

 

looks to have spooled very late?? power and torque peaking very high up the rpm.. although cannot see the rpm on the bottom of the graph..
What gear was it run in? I assume it spooled a lot later on the rollers compared to what it does on the road?

Simon

 

4th gear, version 6 sti

will put a better pic of the graph when the garage sends them out, as there printer/comp was not working right.

she is v good to drive on the road, and i know that is more important than anything, but if the torque is low, more is all ways good :-)

 

My figures with an almost exact spec are very similar to that albeit with a slightly higher torque my recent dyno figures were 323/303 @ 1.4 bar

my engine mods are..
Apexi power fc ecu
(Mapped Jolly Green Monster)
Apexi power fc commander
K&N induction kit
Blitz nur spec R exhaust system
3” decat down pipe
Andy Forrest TD05 20G turbo
550cc injectors
Hybrid Front mount intercooler
255 fuel pump
Knock link sensor
Gruppe S v2 headers & helix up-pipe

those 20Gs aren't all they are cracked up to be

 

Hmm, something must be wrong with your setups, surely, as e.g. 911 hit almost 400bhp with his 20G?

I don't know what other mods he is running though, but 330 bhp should be reachable with the stock TD05, no?

 

depends what RR you go to i guess,ive only been to a notoriously low reading dyno with this setup

 

As already been said headers + up pipe...

 

Crank the boost up and get some nice headers on there.

Then you'll see your torque jump up.

 

Do all these cars run one of the early 75mm square edged bar and plate type Hybrid intercoolers with the small bore pipe kit ? They are known to have a high pressure drop across the core which would limit power at higher boost levels.
This info is available from the hybrid website.



The later tube and fin core is a far better flowing and lighter weight unit.

It would be interesting to get to the bottom of it as the same turbos are producing 370-400 bhp on other similar spec cars.

Andy

 

Daz, I think there has been some teething problems with the RR you went on, like you say it is notoriously reading low.

Ian, Like you say the car deffo didn't feel slow when we mapped it.. bit weird they had problems with the printer?? sounds bit errrmm.. like there might have been a problem with the software? just seems to have a peak very late? hopefully you might get a graph with the boost plotted on it too?

Neither car felt slow and I don't think it is the 20g at fault.

Simon

 

hi Simon, yes the car feels very good on the road, there were about 30 people on the RR day, all scoobs, a few people at the start, graphs were ok, but after that the printer/comp didnt work right, so they got there back up one in to print the sheets off, we are hopefully getting a good graph in the post.

the only reason i asked about the torque is because, my torque was low compaired to other peoples cars there, but my bhp was higher than quite a few of theres.

just wanted to see if there was any problems for it to be that low, or what i could to to bump it up.

Andy.f
the fmic was of the 1st group buy on here from apex performance, it is a autobahn 88 one.

 

RR is always difficult to replicate exactly how the car is running on the road imho.. obviously would rather it that way than map it for large figures on the RR and it not replicate that on the road.. so still stick by my mapping on the road for the road policy.. I will perhaps consider using AP22 to record power figures..

Simon

 

VAL 113R : Nick : Did you mean to say, fit ported headers and matched up-pipe? not tubular headers ?

Ported headers and matched uppipe is one way to add torque and earlier spool. Generally, tubular headers move the spool point several hundred revs up the power band and do not add bottom end power.
Some TD05-06 20Gs perform far better than others and obviously, supporting mods, ECU and mapping have a significant influence. 370-390 bhp on V-Power and one or 2mls per litre NF are typical providing all supporting mods are done.

As regards Hybrid cores, the GT core is far lighter than the RS Monster core.
The GT core has been on sale since the first group buy and the pipe work diameter has never changed from the time of the first group buy and the RS Monster pipework is exactly the same diameter.

What model and year as this could be significant ?

 

Not sure about the 'monster core but the later tube/fin style cores are more efficient, lower pressure drop and lighter weight in my own experience and the suppliers.

On examples above we have the same mapper, same Apexi ECU, same turbo and yet vastly different results. If the intercoolers on the higher output cars are the same as these lower output examples then that would eliminate another variable. I believe the Autobahn kit uses the same bar/plate core as the early hybrid.

Andy

 

I'm with you on that one Simon. I have yet to see a 'dyno queen' perform in line wth the claimed bhp on the 1/4 mile !

Andy

 

There is a later design of hybrid which has a tube and fin core that is the exact same size 600x300x75
It is lighter and higher flowing, you only need to pick one up to tell there is a significant difference.
The core I refer to is the one you changed over to use on your own WRX last year, not the 95mm thick 'monster' core.

For others benefit, the easy way to identify them is the more efficient tube/fin has a rounded edge and the bar/plate has a sharp square edge to the cores.

 

My car (STI v2 Type RA) has pretty much the same mods and gets 380/347. and a little more to come.

My engine mods are..

Apexi power fc ecu
Apexi power fc commander
AVC-R
Blitz induction kit
Kakimoto centre & rearbox, 3"
3" H&S sport cat down pipe
Andy Forrest TD05 20G turbo
550cc injectors
APS Front mount intercooler
255 fuel pump
SX FR
Headers and up pipe.

My 20g is fine, (thanks Andy F) No I am not on his pay roll.


those 20Gs aren't all they are cracked up to be[/quote]

 

My car, MY94 WRX, made 330.1 bhp and 289 lb/ft on the Dastek RR at Motoscope in Northallerton last Sunday.

My spec:

Standard EJ20 engine
Standard engine management, Z4 Ecu, unchipped AFAIK although I should take the cover off and have a look.
Standard TD05-16g turbo
Standard 380(?)cc injectors
Standard headers
GReddy Profec B Spec II boost controller, running roughly 1bar of boost.
Magnex up-pipe
Revolution downpipe
Blitz Nur Spec R
Apexi Power Intake
Walbro fuel pump

Graphs:

Power and Torque


Boost AFR etc



Everything stated as standard above is as it was when I bought the car 2 years ago, anything that may have been changed before that I don't know. Apart from the Z4 ecu which was purchased from Grade A last summer.

So, to increase my torque level, I should have my headers ported. Think I read it right.

Micky

 

What intercooler do you have Micky ? Thats an excellent result for 380cc injectors and 1 bar of boost ! Is that without any octane booster ?

I'd be a bit wary of running it hard on a cold day though as your injectors have maxed out from approx 5300 upwards, if you get a denser airflow then you have no more fuel to add, you will run lean and may melt something.

Andy

 

Ian, I notice that you have still got the standard intake pipe, which I am led to believe can be a restriction around your power levels and up (I am only repeating what I have read though so this may be complete rubish). Maybe someone with actual knowledge can confirm/deny?

 

I have seen up to 406bhp on the version 5/6 intake (maf to turbo) pipe so I don't think thats the issue here. That was a 20G on an HKS FMIC.

So far in this thread all the 'lower than spec' power cars have all used the bar and plate hybrid/autobahn intercooler. The 'on-target' at 380bhp tfl55 used an APS and my own 406bhp Sti5 had an HKS intercooler, John Banks ran 402bhp from memory on an APS FMIC, IIRC Grahams 380/400bhp(depending on rolling road) Sti3 runs an Sti 8 TMIC.
It may be worth gathering more data on this, if nothing else with a large enough sample size we may be able eliminate the intercooler from the equation.

Andy

 

The difference in pressure drop at 1.35bar (as per the car that started this thread) is between 1 and 1.5psi - are you saying that this will cause a difference of over 40bhp and similar if not more in torque?

I don't think 10:1 AFR at 4500rpm will help the torque much!

 

cannot see a graph with that on? my server blocking a picture????

Simon

 

Ian,

thinking out loud have you checked there is no intercooler pipe leaks?
perhaps a jubilee is allowing air to escape but the pipe is not able to burst off due to it contacting something etc?

Simon