2.33 litre engine
22 July 2007, 10:17 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,841
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2.33 litre engine
Can someone tell me what parts are required for a 2.33 litre engine and what the base is on which this is based
I'm curious and find the search facility these days fairly useless (compared to what it used to be)
I have an uprated 2 litre engine which has just less than 500bhp.
What are the realistic limits of the 2.33 litre for power/torque - not looking to stress it - what are the weak points? (weakest point on the 2 litre seems to be the cylinder heads)
Obviously I'd be going rotated turbo route, injector changes?, other fuelling changes? - manifold changes??
I've already got a PPG Synchro gearbox recently following demise of sti5 box
Can someone give me a rough ball park figure/breakdown of likely gross costs?
I'm curious and find the search facility these days fairly useless (compared to what it used to be)
I have an uprated 2 litre engine which has just less than 500bhp.
What are the realistic limits of the 2.33 litre for power/torque - not looking to stress it - what are the weak points? (weakest point on the 2 litre seems to be the cylinder heads)
Obviously I'd be going rotated turbo route, injector changes?, other fuelling changes? - manifold changes??
I've already got a PPG Synchro gearbox recently following demise of sti5 box
Can someone give me a rough ball park figure/breakdown of likely gross costs?
22 July 2007, 11:17 PM
#2
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2004
Location: in motoring nirvana.....
Posts: 2,443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can someone tell me what parts are required for a 2.33 litre engine and what the base is on which this is based
I'm curious and find the search facility these days fairly useless (compared to what it used to be)
I have an uprated 2 litre engine which has just less than 500bhp.
What are the realistic limits of the 2.33 litre for power/torque - not looking to stress it - what are the weak points? (weakest point on the 2 litre seems to be the cylinder heads)
Obviously I'd be going rotated turbo route, injector changes?, other fuelling changes? - manifold changes??
I've already got a PPG Synchro gearbox recently following demise of sti5 box
Can someone give me a rough ball park figure/breakdown of likely gross costs?
I'm curious and find the search facility these days fairly useless (compared to what it used to be)
I have an uprated 2 litre engine which has just less than 500bhp.
What are the realistic limits of the 2.33 litre for power/torque - not looking to stress it - what are the weak points? (weakest point on the 2 litre seems to be the cylinder heads)
Obviously I'd be going rotated turbo route, injector changes?, other fuelling changes? - manifold changes??
I've already got a PPG Synchro gearbox recently following demise of sti5 box
Can someone give me a rough ball park figure/breakdown of likely gross costs?
This is exactly what I'm doing too
To get a 2.33 litre, you use a 2.2 litre block with a 2.5 litre crank (longer stroke). This can be achieved either by using an EJ22T block or a 2 litre CDB and boring and sleeving to 2.2 litre. Either way is going to cost the best part of £1k for the block alone.
Speak to Mark at Lateral Performance for pistons/ rods/ crank, etc and pretty much everything.
I will be using a standard fit turbo initially with this build, but it will give more power and torque than my current MD321T. Hope to have this complete in mid August.
But over the winter, I will go the whole hog with ported and gas flowed heads/ wilder cams/ uprated valves, etc and vernier cams. Then with the correct rotated Garret turbo, I would be hoping for 650bhp. I wil also consider 14mm head studs to help the clamping force on the heads as I may also introduce some laughing gas in the future too
Cost = £££££££££££££
- but who cares - it will all be fun
22 July 2007, 11:27 PM
#3
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,841
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your doing a lot of the work yourself aren't you?
I think your budget was a tad conservative?
Think 550-600bhp will be my goal as I simply want a road car that is also good on track
480-500/420-440lbs is not enough power on track in a classic scoob......
About 25% more would be nicer
Turbo choice is probably going to be one of the more important factors
I think your budget was a tad conservative?
Think 550-600bhp will be my goal as I simply want a road car that is also good on track
480-500/420-440lbs is not enough power on track in a classic scoob......
About 25% more would be nicer
Turbo choice is probably going to be one of the more important factors
Last edited by Fangoria; 22 July 2007 at 11:29 PM.
22 July 2007, 11:52 PM
#4
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Aka - Matt C
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
try this P1 Web Owners Club :: Warning, may contain nuts! click to ''projects'' and then ''2.33 build with ppg kit''
cheers
matt
cheers
matt
24 July 2007, 10:09 AM
#7
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,841
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems that the cost to upgrade from basic (Gross cost) may be quite high
I dont have the time to do anything myself so would be simply leaving the car with someone that can do all the work, including sourcing all the bits, which ultimately means I'll be paying through the nose if I go this route
I probably wont go this route though if it means the cost will be circa £10k - which it sounds like it might be?
The thing that concerns me most about the current scoob is that if its not the engine breaking down at this level, its something else. Recently it was the gearbox - so I changed it to a Helical PPG 1-4 and std 5th, although the gearchange is harder and the noise if more (though not intrusive).
Then there was the bearings - I had a scraping noise from the fronts (not CV joints, not bearings) which turned out to be front hub wear, means replacing the bearings which I'd replaced already as I thought it was them
With an uprated engine I do wonder if the car will be off the road all the time with something going every time I take it to the track - will a driveshaft snap, will the diff's brake, will the clutch start slipping, will the brake discs warp.................
Is it possible to get a 550bhp car that will ultimately be day-day reliable if you dont overstrain it - I wonder because at just under 500bhp Scooby parts cannot take the strain
I dont wonder if I should take the plunge and order a Porsche but then theres the huge cost and I only like the GT2 (its the only one that has a good level of power, that can be further tuned)
I dont have the time to do anything myself so would be simply leaving the car with someone that can do all the work, including sourcing all the bits, which ultimately means I'll be paying through the nose if I go this route
I probably wont go this route though if it means the cost will be circa £10k - which it sounds like it might be?
The thing that concerns me most about the current scoob is that if its not the engine breaking down at this level, its something else. Recently it was the gearbox - so I changed it to a Helical PPG 1-4 and std 5th, although the gearchange is harder and the noise if more (though not intrusive).
Then there was the bearings - I had a scraping noise from the fronts (not CV joints, not bearings) which turned out to be front hub wear, means replacing the bearings which I'd replaced already as I thought it was them
With an uprated engine I do wonder if the car will be off the road all the time with something going every time I take it to the track - will a driveshaft snap, will the diff's brake, will the clutch start slipping, will the brake discs warp.................
Is it possible to get a 550bhp car that will ultimately be day-day reliable if you dont overstrain it - I wonder because at just under 500bhp Scooby parts cannot take the strain
I dont wonder if I should take the plunge and order a Porsche but then theres the huge cost and I only like the GT2 (its the only one that has a good level of power, that can be further tuned)
Trending Topics
24 July 2007, 12:09 PM
#8
Seems that the cost to upgrade from basic (Gross cost) may be quite high
I dont have the time to do anything myself so would be simply leaving the car with someone that can do all the work, including sourcing all the bits, which ultimately means I'll be paying through the nose if I go this route
I probably wont go this route though if it means the cost will be circa £10k - which it sounds like it might be?
The thing that concerns me most about the current scoob is that if its not the engine breaking down at this level, its something else. Recently it was the gearbox - so I changed it to a Helical PPG 1-4 and std 5th, although the gearchange is harder and the noise if more (though not intrusive).
Then there was the bearings - I had a scraping noise from the fronts (not CV joints, not bearings) which turned out to be front hub wear, means replacing the bearings which I'd replaced already as I thought it was them
With an uprated engine I do wonder if the car will be off the road all the time with something going every time I take it to the track - will a driveshaft snap, will the diff's brake, will the clutch start slipping, will the brake discs warp.................
Is it possible to get a 550bhp car that will ultimately be day-day reliable if you dont overstrain it - I wonder because at just under 500bhp Scooby parts cannot take the strain
I dont wonder if I should take the plunge and order a Porsche but then theres the huge cost and I only like the GT2 (its the only one that has a good level of power, that can be further tuned)
I dont have the time to do anything myself so would be simply leaving the car with someone that can do all the work, including sourcing all the bits, which ultimately means I'll be paying through the nose if I go this route
I probably wont go this route though if it means the cost will be circa £10k - which it sounds like it might be?
The thing that concerns me most about the current scoob is that if its not the engine breaking down at this level, its something else. Recently it was the gearbox - so I changed it to a Helical PPG 1-4 and std 5th, although the gearchange is harder and the noise if more (though not intrusive).
Then there was the bearings - I had a scraping noise from the fronts (not CV joints, not bearings) which turned out to be front hub wear, means replacing the bearings which I'd replaced already as I thought it was them
With an uprated engine I do wonder if the car will be off the road all the time with something going every time I take it to the track - will a driveshaft snap, will the diff's brake, will the clutch start slipping, will the brake discs warp.................
Is it possible to get a 550bhp car that will ultimately be day-day reliable if you dont overstrain it - I wonder because at just under 500bhp Scooby parts cannot take the strain
I dont wonder if I should take the plunge and order a Porsche but then theres the huge cost and I only like the GT2 (its the only one that has a good level of power, that can be further tuned)
Driveshafts should be ok at that power, but depends on how often you may look to drag the car.
If you are looking to track the car then expect to pay for the "maintenance" of the car regularly, as a car will always be under strain when used on the track. The Porsche will be better refined and probably safer to drive around compared to a 600bhp classic, but the costs involved in tuning and then maintaining a GT2/911 Turbo are
What you need all depends on what you currently have on your setup...
If your running 480-500 already, you may have most of the parts needed for the extra 50 or so bhp.
What injectors are you running?
Are you running a single bosch fuel pump or a twin setup?
What clutch do you currently have?
Any head work?
Standard cams?
A garret GT30/40r would be a nice Turbo to use-exhaust system to match would be needed....
etc...
If you have most of the parts already, then contact a tuner and get a quote the initial cost should be alot less than what you think it will cost. Lateral can supply your parts and Zen can build it for you....
24 July 2007, 01:13 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,841
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reliable is the key phrase
I reckon in the last few years my car has been off the road for 1 of those years
Its not the cost issue its more that you have to wait to be booked into the better places and you can double the amount of time the place will think it takes
Since April my car has mostly been off the road:
1. Gearbox sti5 fails after a track day at Brands Hatch
2. Zen put me in but its delayed a couple of weeks and then a bit longer - get car back a month after the gearbox failed (I'm not blaming zen here - Paul was trying to get me in as early as possible but had too much work on)
3. A fuel pipe then pops off from a rebuild that was done a few years back(I know who last put the engine back together and they have a respected name here - I wouldnt use them and am not naming anyone) when I'm driving up the Motorway..... engine not boosting - no compression - this was 2nd week of July. Have to wait until August before I can take my car to Roger Clarks (a company I can trust to do the work correctly).. then its probably a while longer before I get the car back
So you sort of get the problem....... cost is not really a huge issue but if I fork out the money I need to be able to use the car :-)
My spec is fairly basic
740cc Injectors
255 Walbro fuel pump
SQ fpr
Omega Pistons - slightly higher compression
Garret Hybrid/P20 exhaust housing - non-rotated
Lightened Flywheel
AP Organic clutch - seems fine with the power
Std Crank
Arrow Rods
APS Front Mount
3d mappable water Injection WRL
Methanol used and full bottle of NF every full up
Exhaust Manifold changed
No headwork of Cams as not required at 500bhp. No discernable difference between Jun Cams and sti5 ones at the powerpoint I'm at
I'm sure theres plenty more - I just lose count of the changes and the 50 or so remaps after using Naf Turbo's
I can hear the fuel pump big time at the moment but maybe because I've taken the rear seats out - I'm actually wondering if an injector or the fuel pump is not working properly following the fuel pipe coming off (I was doing a little over the speed limit at the time ;-)....) - any way to check injector/fuel pump? - that said car will cruise at 100mph - just has no power though (Turbo is ok)
I reckon in the last few years my car has been off the road for 1 of those years
Its not the cost issue its more that you have to wait to be booked into the better places and you can double the amount of time the place will think it takes
Since April my car has mostly been off the road:
1. Gearbox sti5 fails after a track day at Brands Hatch
2. Zen put me in but its delayed a couple of weeks and then a bit longer - get car back a month after the gearbox failed (I'm not blaming zen here - Paul was trying to get me in as early as possible but had too much work on)
3. A fuel pipe then pops off from a rebuild that was done a few years back(I know who last put the engine back together and they have a respected name here - I wouldnt use them and am not naming anyone) when I'm driving up the Motorway..... engine not boosting - no compression - this was 2nd week of July. Have to wait until August before I can take my car to Roger Clarks (a company I can trust to do the work correctly).. then its probably a while longer before I get the car back
So you sort of get the problem....... cost is not really a huge issue but if I fork out the money I need to be able to use the car :-)
My spec is fairly basic
740cc Injectors
255 Walbro fuel pump
SQ fpr
Omega Pistons - slightly higher compression
Garret Hybrid/P20 exhaust housing - non-rotated
Lightened Flywheel
AP Organic clutch - seems fine with the power
Std Crank
Arrow Rods
APS Front Mount
3d mappable water Injection WRL
Methanol used and full bottle of NF every full up
Exhaust Manifold changed
No headwork of Cams as not required at 500bhp. No discernable difference between Jun Cams and sti5 ones at the powerpoint I'm at
I'm sure theres plenty more - I just lose count of the changes and the 50 or so remaps after using Naf Turbo's
I can hear the fuel pump big time at the moment but maybe because I've taken the rear seats out - I'm actually wondering if an injector or the fuel pump is not working properly following the fuel pipe coming off (I was doing a little over the speed limit at the time ;-)....) - any way to check injector/fuel pump? - that said car will cruise at 100mph - just has no power though (Turbo is ok)
24 July 2007, 02:19 PM
#10
Reliable is the key phrase
I reckon in the last few years my car has been off the road for 1 of those years
Its not the cost issue its more that you have to wait to be booked into the better places and you can double the amount of time the place will think it takes
Since April my car has mostly been off the road:
1. Gearbox sti5 fails after a track day at Brands Hatch
2. Zen put me in but its delayed a couple of weeks and then a bit longer - get car back a month after the gearbox failed (I'm not blaming zen here - Paul was trying to get me in as early as possible but had too much work on)
3. A fuel pipe then pops off from a rebuild that was done a few years back(I know who last put the engine back together and they have a respected name here - I wouldnt use them and am not naming anyone) when I'm driving up the Motorway..... engine not boosting - no compression - this was 2nd week of July. Have to wait until August before I can take my car to Roger Clarks (a company I can trust to do the work correctly).. then its probably a while longer before I get the car back
So you sort of get the problem....... cost is not really a huge issue but if I fork out the money I need to be able to use the car :-)
My spec is fairly basic
740cc Injectors
255 Walbro fuel pump
SQ fpr
Omega Pistons - slightly higher compression
Garret Hybrid/P20 exhaust housing - non-rotated
Lightened Flywheel
AP Organic clutch - seems fine with the power
Std Crank
Arrow Rods
APS Front Mount
3d mappable water Injection WRL
Methanol used and full bottle of NF every full up
Exhaust Manifold changed
No headwork of Cams as not required at 500bhp. No discernable difference between Jun Cams and sti5 ones at the powerpoint I'm at
I'm sure theres plenty more - I just lose count of the changes and the 50 or so remaps after using Naf Turbo's
I can hear the fuel pump big time at the moment but maybe because I've taken the rear seats out - I'm actually wondering if an injector or the fuel pump is not working properly following the fuel pipe coming off (I was doing a little over the speed limit at the time ;-)....) - any way to check injector/fuel pump? - that said car will cruise at 100mph - just has no power though (Turbo is ok)
I reckon in the last few years my car has been off the road for 1 of those years
Its not the cost issue its more that you have to wait to be booked into the better places and you can double the amount of time the place will think it takes
Since April my car has mostly been off the road:
1. Gearbox sti5 fails after a track day at Brands Hatch
2. Zen put me in but its delayed a couple of weeks and then a bit longer - get car back a month after the gearbox failed (I'm not blaming zen here - Paul was trying to get me in as early as possible but had too much work on)
3. A fuel pipe then pops off from a rebuild that was done a few years back(I know who last put the engine back together and they have a respected name here - I wouldnt use them and am not naming anyone) when I'm driving up the Motorway..... engine not boosting - no compression - this was 2nd week of July. Have to wait until August before I can take my car to Roger Clarks (a company I can trust to do the work correctly).. then its probably a while longer before I get the car back
So you sort of get the problem....... cost is not really a huge issue but if I fork out the money I need to be able to use the car :-)
My spec is fairly basic
740cc Injectors
255 Walbro fuel pump
SQ fpr
Omega Pistons - slightly higher compression
Garret Hybrid/P20 exhaust housing - non-rotated
Lightened Flywheel
AP Organic clutch - seems fine with the power
Std Crank
Arrow Rods
APS Front Mount
3d mappable water Injection WRL
Methanol used and full bottle of NF every full up
Exhaust Manifold changed
No headwork of Cams as not required at 500bhp. No discernable difference between Jun Cams and sti5 ones at the powerpoint I'm at
I'm sure theres plenty more - I just lose count of the changes and the 50 or so remaps after using Naf Turbo's
I can hear the fuel pump big time at the moment but maybe because I've taken the rear seats out - I'm actually wondering if an injector or the fuel pump is not working properly following the fuel pipe coming off (I was doing a little over the speed limit at the time ;-)....) - any way to check injector/fuel pump? - that said car will cruise at 100mph - just has no power though (Turbo is ok)
)Not sure how you could check if the injectors are working properly, but could be that as you were traveling at some speed
the fuel pipe came off thus starving the engine of fuel and causing it to self destruct?....
But RCM won't steer you wrong anyhow, you can be sure of a quality job from them as well. martp1 had a big power build done by them earlier in the year and yielded great results.
If your going to be tracking the car, brakes, pads,etc... will need to be replaced alot of the time, but with the PPG, and engine build you have planned, there shouldn't be any problems that will keep you off-road for a long amount of time. Unless you get some freak incidents happen at the track, like the car fires at TA....
With your spec it may be better to upgrade:
Fuel pump to Bosch or Twin walbro setup
800 injectors
Clutch
Rotated GT30/40R and have it custom ported
Exhaust system to match above
You may as well get some head work done
and all the bits for the 2.33 build
The best tuners are worth the wait, and you will get a quality build.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Sam Witwicky
Engine Management and ECU Remapping
17
13 November 2015 10:49 AM
Brzoza
Engine Management and ECU Remapping
1
02 October 2015 05:26 PM