ClintUK

I'm sure this must have been covered before, but the google search isn't as good as the old forum search (can you still do that byth way)

Anyway, here's my problem. I'm starting new job in Jan and my car is a bit on the old side for the new company and I will have to change it at some point.

Current car is a UK 1997 car,
305 bhp / 310ftlbs on hybrid TD04 & supporting mods
295mm discs on 4 pot fronts with Pagid Blue front pads and DS2500 rears
stiffer anti roll bars front and back & drop links
Castor (anti lift) kit
Whiteline suspension geometry

Oh and it's now great

I'd like 03-05 newage shape and I think I'd have to go for a JDM STi. But I'm a little concerned that the considerable extra weight will mean I'm not going to feel the same punch or nimbleness. Some things you just can't re-create and I don't want to be disappointed.

How have you guys found this 'graduation' ?

Thanks

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

You will find the new age car much more civilised and a better all rounder! HOWEVER, you will need about 340-350bhp and similar torque in the new age car to match the performance of the classic. It will also feel less nimble and on "tip toes" than the classic.

Maybe consider going for a new age spec C?

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

Try both if at all possible before you buy..

However, remember even the latest classic is going to be >8years old, so things like suspension/bushes (let alone engine) is going to be tired. People like RCM/ZEN/AF use the classic shell, but their cars are newly rebuilt, and as such as new (or better). Any advantage the classic had in nimbleness can soon disappear due to the wear and tear of time..!

So unless you can buy a well maintained recently rebuilt classic (or you have plenty of £££), get a newage, as young as possible. In reality there isn't that much in it performance wise output being equal (awaits the rebuffs from classic owners).

As NS04 says a newage JDM, ideally spec C would be the best IMHO..

Again, try both before you buy..!

ClintUK

Was really wondering if anyone else has graduated this way and how they found it.

Have been contemplating going the twinscroll Legacy route, if I have to 'grow up' then why not go all the way? or perhaps 'split' my car into a sensible boring work car and a toy or even heaven forbid have a dull car, get my girlfreind a 225 quattro TT remap it and buy myself a jetski

Of course my prefered route would be to get the Type 25, Litchfield currently have on offer, but I can't stretch to £28K

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

I'd take issue with classic and new ages of the same output being equivalent in performance mate. I drove a bugeye WRX (225) and a Classic (215) back to back and the difference was very noticable. To be fair, the subjective difference (caused by better refinement, less agressive power delivery etc in the new age car) may well be greater than the objective difference, but I'd defy anyone to come out of the classic without being of the firm opinion that it was the more impressive car in the performance stakes.

I think the 0-100 times back up the subjective impression too, with the new age cars requiring rather longer to complete. Despite the official figures (which, for the classic, were a bare faced lie by Subaru lol ) the classic is also quicker to 60 and in the 30-70 through the gears.

150 Kilos is a pretty big increase in weight. IIRC the Classic's power to weight ratio is similar to the new age STis

ns04

unfeasablylargegonads

iTrader: (3)

I had a classic before my newage and still drive my mates classic every now and then.

The newage is far more refined, better interior, better ride, more solid etc..
However the classic is more raw (if you get my meaning) and because of this I think it will always be a better fun car than the newage.

ClintUK

This is my concern and I thought the newer cars were over 200Kg heavier not 'just' 150- basically like carrying 3 mates with you all the time

My car certainly isn't the quickest around, but at a Brands track day I was keeping a type RA honest even with his lower gear ratios, lower weight etc...

I know my 10yr old car squeeks a bit, it's not the best inside etc... but I'm trying to fight middle age spread myself and I don't want my car to feel like I do

P1 NUT

iTrader: (1)

I went down and drove the 21k t25 litchfields have in which is meant to have 350 of each, but compared to my P1 it felt more lathargick, heavier and dare I say cumbersome to drive. Not a slate of Litchfields work just the newage car.

Then I had a go in the type ra-r he had in and that was way better. Probably one of only a few cars i'd swap P1 for. It was amazing.

ClintUK

Thanks P1 NUT, this is what I did and didn't want to hear if you see what I mean.

I know I should try them out myself, but Scoobynet usually comes up trumps and I need a plan B and probably C too.

James Neill

iTrader: (1)

In roughly the same position as you. My decision has been to keep the classic and spend the money (it would otherwise have cost to buy a new age) keeping it going. It was an easy decision once I worked out how much money I would spend just for a "new shape".

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

IIRC

Classic 1235KGS
New age WRX 1380KGS
New age STi (non spec C)1480KGS
Can't be bothered to look it up and check, but yes, that extra weight will make a difference!

bob r

iTrader: (46)

3 mates..............150Kg skinny mates.

Perhaps 2 lean mates.

The only classic I drove was a P1, which then made me sell my WRX Bugeye.
I then bought a MY03 STI and I knew it needed modding to be anywhere near the P1 performance that I craved.

I think in outright power my car would match a P1 (standard)now and would out handle a P1 but still not as much fun or rawness.

Definitely go down the JDM route

Phildodd06

Have you considered the Type-R?

psigeek

iTrader: (17)

The JDM STi is a little lighter at 1420KG and of course is a bit more powerful with a twin-scroll turbo. It's the route I went. Most say they're a shade over 300bhp IIRC.

overlord

I think I personally would go dowm the one fast play car and one boring diesel work car. You can pick up new shape mondeo's now for ****all and they are actually a verry nice car believe it or not.
Then you can spend the money you save on a bucket seat, rollcage and lots of track days for the scoob.

Mikkel

If you are thinking newage what about the 2.5ltr option? Yes, it is heavier than a classic but the torque they can produce is amazing. Different power delivery of course, not so "hit and miss" but you may miss that coming from a classic.

ClintUK

Cheers guys

I said 3 mates when I thought weight difference was 200Kg (Classic to New UK STi seems to be 250Kg !!!!) - sadly my friends are not super models.

I'd have no problem keeping my classic. 130K miles and going strong, intersted to see how far it will go, but think new company will ask me to change before too long.

If I split my car into toy and diesel I may jump to an RX7. Much as I enjoy my Impreza, 4 doors doesn't say 'toy' loudly enough and it's far too reliable

It'll be a sad day if and when I have to change.

Flippin eck - those diesel Mondeos are for nothing !! But if I do get one and leave the fold, I'll upgrade the estate to a JDM Spec B Legacy in time, I promise.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Clint,

Another option. In the current climate you're not going to get much for a classic with 130k miles, leaving you with quite a big shortfall for an upgrade to a new age STi or, heaven forbid, a Mondeo. So, how about you take the car to someone like David at APi, get the general condition of the car checked out and see about options for a good old overhaul and upgrade Engine rebuild with better rods pistons and cams, bigger turbo, 6 speed gearbox, maybe new springs and shocks and hey presto, totally refreshed car for less than half you might have to find for a decent blobeye Sti with the kind of performance you're accustomed to from your classic!!

Maybe worth a thought?

Ns04

ClintUK

Nice thought NS04, but the company will still see a 10yr old body.

I know I'm not going to get much for my car, may even have to 'give it away' to a needy friend. I'll be fighting the change for as long as possble though, just need to have a plan for when the axe finally falls.

EddScott

Haven't read it all properly, but why don't you get a cheap decent car off the company and get something fun for the weekend?

I'm thinking of getting another Impreza but as its going to be a weekender/high day car it can be a classic and probably a Type R or P1 - stick it on limited miles insurance and save a few notes.

I don't get a company car, but I've got a trusty old MK3 golf that will see me through the winter and those days I can't bike to work due to rain/cba'd

borat52

the T25 is way overpriced in my opinion, you can get a very decent 2.5 build with liners, crank, rods and pistons good for well over 500bhp and a turbo with it for 5k these days and powerstation themselves offer the T25 suspension for under 2k fitted, pretty sure you could get a decent blob for around 10k and then put all this on for another 7k tops, and have a new engine, turbo and suspension rather than have one with 40k on the clock.

martyrobertsdj

iTrader: (1)

I had a classic wagon with around 260-270bhp and I now have a 2005 STI with around 340bhp.
The build quality of the new car is waaaaay superior to the classic. It just feels more "together" and more of a quality item.

Performance-wise I think the classic actually "felt" faster due to it's less smooth power delivery and (as has been said) rawness. It's when you look at the speedo and in the mirror and notice how quickly you leave other cars behind that you realise that the new car isn't slow after all Doesn't stop me wanting 400bhp though!! lol

The new car is a better car all round, better condition, better equipped, a quarter of the mileage, looks better (a matter of taste), and although I'm still getting used to it (so haven't really pushed it yet), I feel that it will handle better.

I considered the option of running a cheap diesel as an everyday car and then buying a classic Type R or similar to spend money on and have as a proper toy (with about 400bhp), but when you add up the cost of insuring, taxing and running two motors.......in my opinion it wasn't worth it........anyway.....I didn't really fancy driving a cheapie car most days!!

Horses for courses 'n' all that, but if the company have influence over your choice of car, but a decent new-age car and enjoy it for what it is.