CoyoteUK

When driving our Outback 2.5i (2004) in a curve this morning when leaving the motorway, the car started to spin around and when trying to rectify the trajectory it completely lost control and ended up in the other side of the road. Fortunately there was no other vehicle in the opposite direction and enough space for the car to stop on the road side. The road was wet but it was not raining anymore.

Behind the emotional shock I am now wondering how it could have happened (oil on the road might be my only explanation so far) but I wonder if there is a potential technical problem on the car and whether I need to bring it to the car dealer for a complete check up. Most of the info I have gathered on the Internet explains that it is very difficult to spin around a 4 wheel drive especially a Subaru with the Symmetrical AWD system.
The front tyres are new, the rear tyres are not but according to my local garage don't need to be replaced yet. Tyres are Yokohama Geolander G900, are they good enough for relatively good adherence?

Thank you for sharing your view, it is now scary to drive this car.

L.J.F

iTrader: (31)

over inflated tires, worn/poor quality tires or oil patch are the most common along with taking the corner too fast!!

Butty

iTrader: (2)

The Geolanders are the scariest tyres I have used. They offer no feel and seem to have hard blocks that may be OK for soft-roading mud digging but are just nasty on roads, especially at speed.
How much tread is left on the rear tyres?
I'd swap the wheels around so that the new ones are on the back.

Nick

CoyoteUK

Nick,
Thanks for your reply. On the rear tyres the tread wear bars (located on the edge of the tyre) have already become flush, but the tread seems to be OK in the middle of the tyre, according to the garage.
The garage recommended to install the new tyres on the front. The new tyres have less than 2,000 miles.
Stan

oadamo

iTrader: (1)

i take corners fast and get a bit of a drift on now and then. on my way back from work i went around the same corner i go around everyday and my car spun out and i **** myself lol. i found one of my rear tyres only had 15 psi in.
adam

Adam K

ANY car can spin, the risk is obviously enhanced by thinking it cannot!
I don't know if your car have a lsd center diff, these you should not operate with different diameter wheels, ie when you replace tyres replace all 4. And you should move them front to back now and then (1/year or so) to keep wear&tear uniform.

scoobynewbie72

iTrader: (1)

Just before it spun you hadnt lifted off the throttle had u?

Wenker Man

AWD/4WD doesn't stop you from spinning. It mearly gives you more traction. All other physics relating to grip still apply the to an AWD as with RWD and FWD: not enough grip = slide. The amount of driven axles or the way they are driven doesn't change this. The suspension setup and tyres have more influence.

A long time agio I had Avon ZZ1 tyres on my Impreza (on the car when I purchased it, thankfully these death tyres are no longer made). Spinning or sliding when the road was wet was somthing to be aware of all the time, as with ploughing massively wide on tight slow bends. Through all of this traction was never an issue.

Last time I nearly spun out using decent cold weather tyres, I had a slow puncture on the rear, the nearside tyre had about 10psi resulting in the rear of the car behaving like the tail of a over-excited Labrador when driven at speed.

After trying Toyos, Yokohama, Bridgestones etc. I'm am now on Michelins and have not looked back; they are far superior in performance for my car in wet and cold conditions, which is when I want the most grip. With exception of the Continental tyres I had before, the other cheaper brands seem to trade off damp/cold weather performance over dry grip which might be fine if we all lived in Spain or some other nice and warm country.

I maybe wrong but I belive Yokohama tyres of any description don't really offer this. Additionally, I have often been told that the best tyres should always be on the rear of the car be it FWD, AWD or RWD (I forget the exact reasoning, but I belive it is down to understeer being more expected than oversteer, which is more likely to catch a driver unawares).

Also bear in mind the rear axle has a limited slip diff. Now my experience with these (of varying types) on both AWD and RWD cars is that although they give a high level of traction in poor conditions, the drawback is when under power the progression and predicability (or safety) of an open diff is removed, by that I mean that the margins of being in control and not in control are much finer, during aceleration there is less warning of low grip up to the point it breaks traction, which once it occurs requires better driver reactions needed to correct a slide, of which has to be more precise (interms of more delicate throttle control - controlling lift-off and application as well as steering input).

CoyoteUK

Thank You to all of you for your explanation and especially Wenker Man for your long input.

Scoobienewbie 72, yes I had lifted off the throttle just before it spun because i was exiting the motorway. But i haven't used the breaks not the clutch.

This morning the back road I have used was very icy (north scotland), and even when driving very slowly (around 15-20 mph) the car slighlty spun around in 90 degres curve. I understand it was icy, but the driver in front of me manage to stay in the trajecteory with an old Audi A4 (no quattro). I have been told that such an heavy car shoulnd't slide at this speed because of its weight.

If the tyres are the issue i will replace the rear tyres and get some Michelin. The front tyres are new (Yokohama) do you think they would need to be replaced as well? is it common practice to have two different types of tyres, as long as they are the same on the same axis?

Wenker Man

From my experience I think Imprezas on icy/snowy roads are always very tail-happy and very sensitive to what you do with the throttle pedal, where on extremely slippery roads it behaves more like a RWD car. I would go as far to say the average FWD car is easier to handle in snow and ice than an Impreza (apart from it gets stuck alot easier).

Lifting off the throttle too agressively will provoke the rear to slide out in slippery conditions. It can be made alot worse if at high revs or in a low gear, where engine braking will be more prominent.

What tyres are on the rear of the car?

It maybe worth putting the newer tyres on the back, see if that helps. Having different brands is not ideal, but making sure the better tyres are on the rear may help.

You have to excuse me, but I am a very bitchy when it comes to tyres LOL. I wouldn't advise to splash out on even more money on tyres until you absolutely need to.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Wenker Man, out of interest, what were the those Michelins you feel are great in dodgy conditions? Exaltos?

I have F1 Asymmetrics in 215/45 R17 on my 93 WRX. Have you had these? If so, do you have an opinion on their wet weather prowess (or lack of, lol)?

Wenker Man

Yes, although I do prefer the Primacy HPs, which I have fitted on my company car, but they don't have them in the right size for my Impreza (or pilot sports). Either way, they are better than the Toyos I had fitted before.

I've not had F1s. I tend to shy away from Good year after a spate of sidewall failures on the tyres that were fitted to my old Nissan rep mobile. Think they were NCTs or somthing, not F1s. Still, it put me off the brand.