2 questions
01 March 2009, 02:20 PM
#1
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2 questions
I have a '95 WRX which needs a new engine.
Been told i can fit a V3 STI engine, minus the turbo and ecu and use my manifold and that would work
Also would a version 1 WRX engine work?
Been told i can fit a V3 STI engine, minus the turbo and ecu and use my manifold and that would work
Also would a version 1 WRX engine work?
01 March 2009, 02:28 PM
#3
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exactly the same ?
so it should pop straight in..
what power gains if any would i expect from the STI engine - the ecu, turbo, manifold.. been told that they are just stronger engines..
The WRX engine i have been told is fully rebuilt with race bearings.. with 740cc injectors
so it should pop straight in..
what power gains if any would i expect from the STI engine - the ecu, turbo, manifold.. been told that they are just stronger engines..
The WRX engine i have been told is fully rebuilt with race bearings.. with 740cc injectors
01 March 2009, 03:07 PM
#4
Yes v.1/v.2 (MY93-96) are exactly the same like-for-like i.e WRX/WRX and STi/STi The engine is the EJ20G for thses years.
The v.3 is a reworked engine (Subaru created an acronym for it: "MASTER")
The v.3 STi has closer tolerences than the WRX. I think it also has forged pistons - but nothing to have a wet dream over. How many miles on it, etc.? You'd also need the v.3/4 engine wiring loom/ECU as its different to the earlier one. It has a 3-plug ECU compared to the v.1/2's 4-plugger.
Has the other v.1 motor been rebuilt with DECENT forged pistons/and or rods, too - to compliment that bottom end (with the decent race bearings)? This option would be a straightforward swap, so is the easier one to to - just drop in and done! (Plus, of course, it's got those 400bhp+ rated, expensive 740cc injectors fitted!
).
The v.3 is a reworked engine (Subaru created an acronym for it: "MASTER")
The v.3 STi has closer tolerences than the WRX. I think it also has forged pistons - but nothing to have a wet dream over. How many miles on it, etc.? You'd also need the v.3/4 engine wiring loom/ECU as its different to the earlier one. It has a 3-plug ECU compared to the v.1/2's 4-plugger.
Has the other v.1 motor been rebuilt with DECENT forged pistons/and or rods, too - to compliment that bottom end (with the decent race bearings)? This option would be a straightforward swap, so is the easier one to to - just drop in and done! (Plus, of course, it's got those 400bhp+ rated, expensive 740cc injectors fitted!
).
Last edited by joz8968; 01 March 2009 at 03:13 PM.
01 March 2009, 03:47 PM
#5
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well the V3 STI has done 80,000, there is another which has been recon'd. Nothing exciting, just recon'd with standard bits.
I was told that i can simply transfer my manifold onto the V3 STI, leave my turbo and ECU on, and it would be fine.
The V1 WRX engine i think has been built with standard internals, but has race bearings. But to use the 740cc injectors, i have to get the power FC aswel..
I was told that i can simply transfer my manifold onto the V3 STI, leave my turbo and ECU on, and it would be fine.
The V1 WRX engine i think has been built with standard internals, but has race bearings. But to use the 740cc injectors, i have to get the power FC aswel..
01 March 2009, 04:15 PM
#6
Sorry, yeah you might be right about the ECU for the v.3 - that's less hassle then. 
Thing is, if you wanted to fit the v.3 motor but retain the std v.2 ECU, then I'm not sure what bhp you'd end up with, as your std ECU was mapped for 380cc inj (and the TD05). I'm assuming it'll be the std v.2 WRX's 260PS still (despite the v.3 STi engine and its 440cc injectors)
... Plus you'll have a non-mappable ECU on your hands anyway - so can't go for more later on!
If you go for that v.1 motor though, and a PFC, then on your std TMIC you'll prob be good for 300bhp - possibly 310. If you get a FMIC and the PFC MAP sensor, then those 740cc and upped boost will easily get you to the next limiting factor, which will be the TD05 turbo. But you should easily see 330-350bhp. And those 740s won't be breaking sweat - so they'll never be anywhere near 100% IDC. If you were then to change the turbo to a larger job then anything from 370>on (depending on which turbo). But beyond 350/350, you WILL be pushing the internals... AND gearbox!
Personally, if the v.1 has been rebuilt properly by a reputable source, then you're effectively getting a refreshed engine, plus more bhp potentilal if you want it (with those injectors).
Both engines have std internals, but the v.3 STi has covered 80k! Go figure...
Thing is, if you wanted to fit the v.3 motor but retain the std v.2 ECU, then I'm not sure what bhp you'd end up with, as your std ECU was mapped for 380cc inj (and the TD05). I'm assuming it'll be the std v.2 WRX's 260PS still (despite the v.3 STi engine and its 440cc injectors)
... Plus you'll have a non-mappable ECU on your hands anyway - so can't go for more later on!If you go for that v.1 motor though, and a PFC, then on your std TMIC you'll prob be good for 300bhp - possibly 310. If you get a FMIC and the PFC MAP sensor, then those 740cc and upped boost will easily get you to the next limiting factor, which will be the TD05 turbo. But you should easily see 330-350bhp. And those 740s won't be breaking sweat - so they'll never be anywhere near 100% IDC. If you were then to change the turbo to a larger job then anything from 370>on (depending on which turbo). But beyond 350/350, you WILL be pushing the internals... AND gearbox!
Personally, if the v.1 has been rebuilt properly by a reputable source, then you're effectively getting a refreshed engine, plus more bhp potentilal if you want it (with those injectors).
Both engines have std internals, but the v.3 STi has covered 80k! Go figure...
Last edited by joz8968; 01 March 2009 at 04:20 PM.
01 March 2009, 04:29 PM
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yes true.. true..
So what does my 95 WRX have as standard for ECU and turbo.
I am keen on the V1.. is that a good price. He said 700 for engine minus turbo and injectors
150 for injectors
250 for turbo and
450 for power fc+controller.
I could even just get the engine, then upgrade to 740cc injectors, power FC at a later date. Not made of cash
So what does my 95 WRX have as standard for ECU and turbo.
I am keen on the V1.. is that a good price. He said 700 for engine minus turbo and injectors
150 for injectors
250 for turbo and
450 for power fc+controller.
I could even just get the engine, then upgrade to 740cc injectors, power FC at a later date. Not made of cash
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01 March 2009, 04:39 PM
#8
PFC + Commander about £350 2nd hand thses days
2nd hand TD05 16G, £100+ I think. But don't you still have the TD05 on your exising, knackered v.2 engine - to save on costs? 
Are you saying that he would sell those 740cc inj to you for £150, then?! If so bite his arm off! I'm sure they're very expensive new.
Plus £700 for a rebuilt v.1 WRX engine with race bearings is excellent - so long as he's being honest/built it properly!
2nd hand TD05 16G, £100+ I think
. But don't you still have the TD05 on your exising, knackered v.2 engine - to save on costs? Are you saying that he would sell those 740cc inj to you for £150, then?! If so bite his arm off! I'm sure they're very expensive new.
Plus £700 for a rebuilt v.1 WRX engine with race bearings is excellent - so long as he's being honest/built it properly!
Last edited by joz8968; 01 March 2009 at 04:47 PM.
01 March 2009, 04:56 PM
#12
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hmm quality..
ok well just mailed him, so hopefully ill have a Recon'd WRX engine + 740cc Injectors.
Just need to save for a Power FC so i can utilise those injectors..
Would it need a map when i install the FC and 740's ? or would it be ok?
ok well just mailed him, so hopefully ill have a Recon'd WRX engine + 740cc Injectors.
Just need to save for a Power FC so i can utilise those injectors..
Would it need a map when i install the FC and 740's ? or would it be ok?
01 March 2009, 05:12 PM
#15
The 740cc will run terrible in the meantime (if at all!) if you were to fit them before the remap. If they do run, then drive off boost till the remap anyway! I'd refit your exisitng 380's to the new v.1 engine, so the v.2 ECU will be running what it 'expects to see'... until you obtain a PFC.
BTW, do you intend to get a FMIC later on and upped boost beyond 1.1bar? Because if not, then I wouldn't worry about fitting the 740cc - they're overkill at that level. You could, however, sell then on for more than £150, I would have thought
01 March 2009, 05:20 PM
#16
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lol.
well until i can afford it, i will replace the 740cc injectors with my standard 380's and run it off my old ECU, so everything should be ok.
Once i get some more money, i want to fit the Power FC, 740cc injectors and FMIC.. Plus maybe change the internals
Sound like a plan ??
How much do 740s normally go for?
well until i can afford it, i will replace the 740cc injectors with my standard 380's and run it off my old ECU, so everything should be ok.
Once i get some more money, i want to fit the Power FC, 740cc injectors and FMIC.. Plus maybe change the internals
Sound like a plan ??
How much do 740s normally go for?
01 March 2009, 05:21 PM
#17
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Joz,
That made me spit my cup of tea out..
Fantastic info though as usual mate....
i,m pretty sure they,ll take near on 400 bhp to be fair, BUT i wouldn,t want to be the guinea pig testing it out...
01 March 2009, 05:48 PM
#19
LOL. Imparting 'knowledge' is only recycling what one remembers from others/personal experience, etc (hopefully correct info!, though)
The above is what you should do, yes.
The great thing is, the 380's (and TD05) are the 'correct' items for your std v.2 ECU, so after the running in period of 1000m, you can drive it normally using full boost, until mapped on the PFC later.on. Just be done with it and only use V-Power, as the proviso.
Make sure you DO run it in - as the engine has been fully rebuilt with rpelcement pistons and rings. They need to bed in properly. Don't go beyond about 3-4k rpm for the first 500m, then up it to a max of 5k for the last 500m.
Use the occasional foray of boost when running in and try toput varing loads on the engine. DO NOT be temped into a red-mist-descended 'race' lol - it'll invariably end in tears...
Don't know what 740cc would fetch(?) All I know is that second hand 440s can typically go for about £60-100. I'm sure they'll be 'worth' decent cash to the right buyer i.e. suitable for someone's current build
Just a quick one.. When you get the FMIC/larger inj. you'll want to up the boost beyond 1.1bar in the 2nd remap, so will need get the bespoke PFC 3bar MAP sensor - it allows a potential 2bar of boost - but invariably you'll be running at 1.4-1.5bar max (for the turbo/internals to be safe, etc.).
lol.
well until i can afford it, i will replace the 740cc injectors with my standard 380's and run it off my old ECU, so everything should be ok.
Once i get some more money, i want to fit the Power FC, 740cc injectors and FMIC.. Plus maybe change the internals
Sound like a plan ??...
well until i can afford it, i will replace the 740cc injectors with my standard 380's and run it off my old ECU, so everything should be ok.
Once i get some more money, i want to fit the Power FC, 740cc injectors and FMIC.. Plus maybe change the internals
Sound like a plan ??...
The great thing is, the 380's (and TD05) are the 'correct' items for your std v.2 ECU, so after the running in period of 1000m, you can drive it normally using full boost, until mapped on the PFC later.on. Just be done with it and only use V-Power, as the proviso.
Make sure you DO run it in - as the engine has been fully rebuilt with rpelcement pistons and rings. They need to bed in properly. Don't go beyond about 3-4k rpm for the first 500m, then up it to a max of 5k for the last 500m.
Use the occasional foray of boost when running in and try toput varing loads on the engine. DO NOT be temped into a red-mist-descended 'race' lol - it'll invariably end in tears...
Don't know what 740cc would fetch(?) All I know is that second hand 440s can typically go for about £60-100. I'm sure they'll be 'worth' decent cash to the right buyer i.e. suitable for someone's current build
Just a quick one.. When you get the FMIC/larger inj. you'll want to up the boost beyond 1.1bar in the 2nd remap, so will need get the bespoke PFC 3bar MAP sensor - it allows a potential 2bar of boost - but invariably you'll be running at 1.4-1.5bar max (for the turbo/internals to be safe, etc.).
Last edited by joz8968; 01 March 2009 at 06:12 PM.
01 March 2009, 06:06 PM
#20
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a nice.
well the engine has already been run in.. Its been 4000 miles since the re-build, but had a little accident hence the sale of the engine..
Am i correct in saying that i have a 3 port solenoid..
well the engine has already been run in.. Its been 4000 miles since the re-build, but had a little accident hence the sale of the engine..
Am i correct in saying that i have a 3 port solenoid..
01 March 2009, 06:19 PM
#21
Yes a 3-port should be on your car - they're great - keep it. When you get that MAP sensor, it comes in a kit called the PFC boost control kit or something, and also comes with a replacement Apexi 3-porter. You can either subs that one over, or retain the std one...
01 March 2009, 06:41 PM
#23
I take it that MAP sensor is an OEM one? Ask him what it is... If it's a MY93-96, then you.ve already got one. If it's an OEM MY97/98 2.4bar, or MY99/00 2.7bar, one, then I don't think they will work with the PFC anyway.
Is this a dump valve? (have seen the acronym, nut don't know what it is). If it is, you don't need it.
Don't get this.
Is this a dump valve? (have seen the acronym, nut don't know what it is). If it is, you don't need it.
Don't get this.
01 March 2009, 06:45 PM
#24
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Think i over spent anyway. lol
Well im hoping everything will be ok when i get the engine over. Hopefully picking the engine up in a couple of weeks. I think the safest option is to get it done proffesionally, will get them to check it before it goes in and then if i need to pick anything off my engine, they can do that..
Well im hoping everything will be ok when i get the engine over. Hopefully picking the engine up in a couple of weeks. I think the safest option is to get it done proffesionally, will get them to check it before it goes in and then if i need to pick anything off my engine, they can do that..
01 March 2009, 07:12 PM
#26
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theres a garage near me called carnetix.
Subaru and saab specialists.
Id like to be able to do it myself, save on labour. But tbh, i would have to buy or rent a Engine lift, and wouldnt want to mess anything up.
Subaru and saab specialists.
Id like to be able to do it myself, save on labour. But tbh, i would have to buy or rent a Engine lift, and wouldnt want to mess anything up.
01 March 2009, 07:24 PM
#28
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think they said 5-6 hours at about 30-40 p/h
yes they are good. been to them before.. they are in melton mowbray..
Unless you have a better solution
yes they are good. been to them before.. they are in melton mowbray..
Unless you have a better solution
01 March 2009, 07:32 PM
#29
Don't know of any other specialists that has labour rate that low - is that inclusive of VAT?
Only 5-6 hours? Haven't they got to transfer all your ancillaries over to the new engines? Or has the new engine got everything on (except the turbo and injectors) then?
Only 5-6 hours? Haven't they got to transfer all your ancillaries over to the new engines? Or has the new engine got everything on (except the turbo and injectors) then?